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A Possible solution to common issue in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A Possible solution to common issue in PvP

Touvell's Avatar


Touvell
11.20.2012 , 03:16 AM | #1
Hello SWTOR players and readers:

Monoth created a post called "Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones"http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=544543 And instead of reading through the 50+ pages of replies, I listened to a summary about it from a friend. I too have experienced the frustrations of lvl 50 PvP warzones. The transition from 49 to 50. Going from being almost god-like to being a pile of goo that a lot of players refer to as "BAD" no matter how you look at it; a solo player outfitted with Recruit gear, is like having a big target painted on you that says, "EASY KILL" to those that have grinded up the ladder and have Elite War Hero gear. Most of your warzone time is spent debating/arguing/venting in general chat because the pre-made or the other team is wiping their butts with you and your Recruit gear. This inevitably leads a frustrated, Recruit geared, player to either "RAGE QUIT" the game, or start a new alt vowing never to hit 50. Or you find them on the forums begging BW to put in a feature that allows a player to turn off XP.

I'm not entirely opposed of the idea of turning off XP, but I do not feel like that's a solution. All that does is kill lvl 50 warzones. Seriously... a show of hands (/raise) How many players out there would use the XP off feature and never set foot into a lvl 50 warzone??(and it's for other reasons then just the beatings I get from running against pre-mades)

/RAISE


So my idea for a POSSIBLE solution. LOL "Get rid of Expertise..." No =P I was playing my lvl 35 sage and zoomed over to a PvP vendor and was looking at the list of lvl 50 gear... Battlemaster. 975 wz comms for the legs. I click on it, to buy it. The game informs me that I'm not high enough, in level, to buy this item. So what if.. Bioware... you remove that. You allow a player(lvl 10-49) to buy Battlemaster gear. It's level 50 so we wont be able to equip it. It's mods are 50+ so it's not like we can strip it and use the mods to "twink" out a pre-50 character. Keep Recruit gear for players who didn't participate in Warzones from level 10-49. But are lvl 50 wanting to PvP. they can buy Recruit gear and suffer through the pains of being "BAD" But for the players who enjoyed pre-50 warzones, and want to compete with the lvl 50 players, who have War Hero or Elite War Hero gear, having a set of Battlemaster gear would make a huge difference. Even with BM gear we still have grinding to do for War Hero, and eventually Elite War Hero.

Jarfunkz's Avatar


Jarfunkz
11.20.2012 , 03:37 AM | #2
tl;dr

All I saw was get rid of expertise, so I assume you were trolling.
VicVega

Touvell's Avatar


Touvell
11.20.2012 , 03:39 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Jarfunkz View Post
tl;dr

All I saw was get rid of expertise, so I assume you were trolling.
Learn to read! I jokingly said, LOL "Get rid of Expertise..."

Masarko's Avatar


Masarko
11.20.2012 , 03:55 AM | #4
So, people having full battlemaster at level 30+ if theyre pvping the whole way. (yay) no

The caps have been increased to 4,5k ranked and 2,7k normal comms too you know.
Also recruit MK-ll isnt bad, ive tried it already (for some classes its a cosmetic copy of BM too, nice camo ikr)

The biggest problem is that these "PuGs" are running in Columi and stuff, because lets be honest.. they are plain dumb and ignorrant.
Theyre wearing it because:
1: Its purple text and carries a set bonus
2: "OMG SO SHINY XDXDXD 1337"
3: "It cant be that bad"

Then you have the: "I hate people" persons who are usually sorcs who likes to solo defend and (consumption + dark infusion) to look good untill they get 1 shot by anyone and capped.
They usually dont know how to write in the chat.

Gear is a minor problem, average intelligence is a bigger one.

Ive seen an Operative DPS in Recruit solo defending who cc'ed the incommings long enough for backup to arrive, and not go "HURR DURR I WAS OP AT LEBUL 49 TIEM2DIE NAPS" when the "incs" are halfway

If suddenly EVERYONE got a brain boost, i will never ever que for warzones with my fully geared characters, unless its ranked warzones and do PvE the whole week.

Touvell's Avatar


Touvell
11.20.2012 , 04:29 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Masarko View Post
So, people having full battlemaster at level 30+ if theyre pvping the whole way. (yay) no
No... it's not about being able to Use BM gear early. it's about having a set of BM gear when you hit 50. It's about using the excess commendations that everyone has, who does enough warzones, and spending them on BM gear, so by the time they reach level 50, they have a full set of gear waiting for them to use.

Masarko's Avatar


Masarko
11.20.2012 , 04:46 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Touvell View Post
No... it's not about being able to Use BM gear early. it's about having a set of BM gear when you hit 50. It's about using the excess commendations that everyone has, who does enough warzones, and spending them on BM gear, so by the time they reach level 50, they have a full set of gear waiting for them to use.
I didnt mean wearing it at 30+, its a reason you GET recruit for free, its a reason they upgraded the old Recruit set

anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
11.20.2012 , 05:35 AM | #7
Firstly, your proposed solution of optionally turning off XP gain is NOT something I would ever use. Whilst you may prefer the balance during sub-50 pvp, I personally hate the terrible level of player skill that I find in the sub-50 warzones.

whilst the level 50 warzones may suffer from gear imbalance, the skill level is much higher. Most people know how to perform basic team manuvers, such as peeling, stunning so you can can, luring people away from nodes, calling out incomings etc at level 50. In the sub-50 warzones, most people either dont know how to do it, or are simply too lazy to bother. Sub-50 warzones tend to be straight forward deathmatches and for me, thats really boring. Not only is it boring, its also extremely frustrating when I do try to play the objectives as the inexperienced players tend to mess things up for me (e.g. breaking stuns, standing on top of me if I'm stealthed, following me if I'm going for a solo cap etc).

However, if you prefer playing with inexperienced players in sub-50 pvp then such an option is fine for you. But, the same problem exists in sub-50 pvp as exists in 50 pvp: massive gear gaps. A level 45-49 pvper with twinked gear will destroy 99% of players in the sub-50 warzones. They'll have 4k more health than most people and do tons more damage. Additionally, they'll have all their skills and most of their talents which adds a double-whammy. Its just as unfair as the gear gaps in post-50 warzones.


There is only one viable solution to balancing warzones: intelligent matchmaking using a universal ratings system.



In short, every single player in the game should have a player rating that is based off win/loss ratio and the rating of the opponents they win/lose against. Then, warzones should try, where possible, to place players against other players with a similar ratings.

This way, good players will get placed against other good players, bad players against bad players. Premades will naturally win a lot which will result in a higher rating and thus premades will eventually get mostly placed against other premades. People with a gear advantage will win more so will get a higher rating and thus get placed against other people with good gear. It is the only fair way to do it, because lets face it, not every premade is good, not every fresh 50 is bad, not every WH geared player is good etc etc.
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

Touvell's Avatar


Touvell
11.20.2012 , 06:05 AM | #8
Recruit gear is crap. Show me the video of the guy in recruit gear that defended a turret/station long enough for reinforcements to show. Otherwise Recruit gear is a joke. On my sniper, in recruit gear, I feel like I'm level 30 fighting a level 50. Level 50(with War hero gear+) hits me a couple of times and 3/4 of my health is gone. If the most I get to do with Recruit gear is run around delaying the inevitable.. lol I'd rather spend my time doing pve dailies then queue up for Warzones at lvl 50. Which btw is what most players do. Which is why queue times at lvl 50 are anywhere from 15-30 minutes. And most of the time the only players you see in the warzones. are the ones with BM and above gear. The gear you can buy with Warzone Comms from 10-49 is on par if not less then par with gear you can get just from doing missions. or queuing up for a Flashpoint. It's nothing special. A player may spend a few commendations on Implants or Earpieces, but for the most part commendations are capped. And it's not like the game is handing a player a set of BM gear, like they do with recruit gear. A player has to spend WZ comms whether it's at lvl 50 or sooner for the BM pieces, so the player has to grind out Warzones to get the comms for a set of gear that they wont be able to use till 50.

So what's the difference? Oh I know what it is, You enjoy beating on the newly lvl 50s in warzones with recruit gear, because when you were newly 50, you got your butt handed to you repeatedly, so it's only fair that everyone else go through all that too. So Bioware, reward the player that spends countless hours in pre-50 warzones grinding out comms to get a set of gear for level 50 warzones, so they have don't have to accept the "inevitable," they will actually have a fighting chance against a player in higher tiered pvp gear. Why is that so wrong? F2P players, who can only do 3 warzones a week(unless they buy a week pass with CC), can have a goal to work towards... "I may only play 3 warzones a week, but after a couple of weeks I can buy my BM leg(or chest piece). So that by the time I hit 50, I may have a few pieces of BM gear so it's not a total slaughter when I play in the lvl 50 warzones."

It's about encouraging players to want to play in lvl 50 Warzones. Recruit gear, cool I get it, queue up run a Warzone have my butt handed to me repeatedly, and say to myself, "Do I really want to do this over and over just so I can afford 1 piece of BM gear?" Bioware, you want to encourage a player to do more PvP in SWTOR, Recruit gear is NOT the answer. Letting a player work(in pre-50 warzones) towards a full set of BM gear... is.

Ancaglon's Avatar


Ancaglon
11.20.2012 , 06:36 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Masarko View Post
I didnt mean wearing it at 30+, its a reason you GET recruit for free, its a reason they upgraded the old Recruit set
Wrong. The recruit set is there because people hitting 50 being destroyed by people (then) wearing full Battlemaster was causing people to either stop PVPing or worst case, quit the game.

The proposed solution is perfectly sensible -- the gear can be bought before 50, but it can't be EQUIPPED till 50. This is exactly the same as with the level 20 and level 40 PVP sets, and the PVP weapons -- you can buy them well before you can equip them. So, if you like to PVP a lot, then you can buy your level 50 Battlemaster set well ahead of time.

(And, even if nothing else changes, you can start buying your War Hero set at 40).

Masarko's Avatar


Masarko
11.20.2012 , 06:39 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Touvell View Post
Recruit gear is crap. Show me the video of the guy in recruit gear that defended a turret/station long enough for reinforcements to show. Otherwise Recruit gear is a joke. On my sniper, in recruit gear, I feel like I'm level 30 fighting a level 50. Level 50(with War hero gear+) hits me a couple of times and 3/4 of my health is gone. If the most I get to do with Recruit gear is run around delaying the inevitable.. lol I'd rather spend my time doing pve dailies then queue up for Warzones at lvl 50. Which btw is what most players do. Which is why queue times at lvl 50 are anywhere from 15-30 minutes. And most of the time the only players you see in the warzones. are the ones with BM and above gear. The gear you can buy with Warzone Comms from 10-49 is on par if not less then par with gear you can get just from doing missions. or queuing up for a Flashpoint. It's nothing special. A player may spend a few commendations on Implants or Earpieces, but for the most part commendations are capped. And it's not like the game is handing a player a set of BM gear, like they do with recruit gear. A player has to spend WZ comms whether it's at lvl 50 or sooner for the BM pieces, so the player has to grind out Warzones to get the comms for a set of gear that they wont be able to use till 50.

So what's the difference? Oh I know what it is, You enjoy beating on the newly lvl 50s in warzones with recruit gear, because when you were newly 50, you got your butt handed to you repeatedly, so it's only fair that everyone else go through all that too. So Bioware, reward the player that spends countless hours in pre-50 warzones grinding out comms to get a set of gear for level 50 warzones, so they have don't have to accept the "inevitable," they will actually have a fighting chance against a player in higher tiered pvp gear. Why is that so wrong? F2P players, who can only do 3 warzones a week(unless they buy a week pass with CC), can have a goal to work towards... "I may only play 3 warzones a week, but after a couple of weeks I can buy my BM leg(or chest piece). So that by the time I hit 50, I may have a few pieces of BM gear so it's not a total slaughter when I play in the lvl 50 warzones."

It's about encouraging players to want to play in lvl 50 Warzones. Recruit gear, cool I get it, queue up run a Warzone have my butt handed to me repeatedly, and say to myself, "Do I really want to do this over and over just so I can afford 1 piece of BM gear?" Bioware, you want to encourage a player to do more PvP in SWTOR, Recruit gear is NOT the answer. Letting a player work(in pre-50 warzones) towards a full set of BM gear... is.
Stop getting offensive already.

And for the recruit geared story, you should read it again. I never stated there was any video.
Operatives has stealth right?
Stealth classes has a out of combat cc, which can lock down a person for 12 seconds, you knew that right?

If youre so ***** on a video with a full recruit geared holding of 2 til reinforcement comes, ill put the recruit gear back on my fresh 50 Scoundrel and make a video of it. (FYI that character skipped the WHOLE grind :D)

You dont think I got my butt handed to me? I played ranked to speed up my first WH grind

Since you guys are so up to skill based warzones and low level warzones are a fine example..get a full gear set in purple mods at YOUR level, oya 16k hp+ Powertechs with 5k rail shots against a team with pretty much 11-13k hp now thats skill based. I have tried it with a 49 Merc I had 15,7k hp and my heatseekers did 4-6k

My point: Get Bioware to make cross server queues BEFORE you whine about gear brackets.

Id love to actually get in a 16man recruit warzone with the current population of certain servers.. yea good luck