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Perhaps Mercs Need a Jetboost ability?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Perhaps Mercs Need a Jetboost ability?

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.14.2012 , 06:36 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
You've clearly never played either sniper or dps sage if you think utility is only for running away and healing. They use utility skills to K I T E properly. Kiting allows them to dps, or heal if need be. Kiting is how ranged classes can kill melee classes.

Making CB/GR instant does not allow us to kite since we still have no way to snare/root melees, and no escapes. Thus, we still die to melee. Yes, we'll do a bit more damage before we die, but we will still die nonetheless.
why do you not seem to understand that instant attacks can be used on the move, ie WHILE KITING. if TM was instant, the root on Rocket Punch wouldnt be so terrible, neither would the slow on the end of Jet Boost, and neither would the 70% slow on unload.

As far as the utility that Merc needs, we need a reliable snare. I think Missile Blast is as good a candidate as any for that. It would need its heat cost reduced to 16, but it is low damaging and would be perfect for something like a 30% slow with 4-6s duraton.
Da'ny - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

dejavy's Avatar


dejavy
11.14.2012 , 06:44 PM | #62
1. Root
2. Instant casts with CD
3. RS with immunity (sniper/GS analogue)
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Piam's Avatar


Piam
11.14.2012 , 08:01 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
It's a combination of all 3. Utility is great and all, but no team is going to want a dps that can't dps effectively.
Season plays RWZs as a DPS Commando with Don't Panic and gets top damage or close to top.

The problem is, DPS Sages do equivalent damage (when they focus on just doing damage), but have far more utility. Between friendly pulls, a lower cooldown knockback that roots, bubble stun (!), off-healing, and force speed for transitions, there's no reason to bring a DPS Commando over a DPS Sage.

williambr's Avatar


williambr
11.14.2012 , 08:05 PM | #64
They should just allow Mercs the ability to use a companion in warzones. That would make them a little closer competitive wise to other classes lol.
Don't take me too seriously, I don't

Individual's Avatar


Individual
11.14.2012 , 08:29 PM | #65
Why do mercs have to even kite? Just raise their DPS. Ya, sorcs can kite better, but do you they generally win in a 1 v 1 vs a murader? Not really. Dmg needs to be increased, not kiting skills.

Lets also look at what sorcs can do now with their bubbles. How many melee are going to start crying when mercs can kite them? The issue is dmg.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.14.2012 , 09:32 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
why do you not seem to understand that instant attacks can be used on the move, ie WHILE KITING. if TM was instant, the root on Rocket Punch wouldnt be so terrible, neither would the slow on the end of Jet Boost, and neither would the 70% slow on unload.

As far as the utility that Merc needs, we need a reliable snare. I think Missile Blast is as good a candidate as any for that. It would need its heat cost reduced to 16, but it is low damaging and would be perfect for something like a 30% slow with 4-6s duraton.
Since when does GR/CB being instant somehow stop melee from leaping at you and snaring/rooting you so you can't simply run away?

Snipers/sages do well because they have tools that prevent or allow them to escape melee.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.14.2012 , 09:35 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Piam View Post
Season plays RWZs as a DPS Commando with Don't Panic and gets top damage or close to top.

The problem is, DPS Sages do equivalent damage (when they focus on just doing damage), but have far more utility. Between friendly pulls, a lower cooldown knockback that roots, bubble stun (!), off-healing, and force speed for transitions, there's no reason to bring a DPS Commando over a DPS Sage.
Dunno who Season is since I quit a few months ago, and only resubbed to get my cartel coins, and haven't really played much except play alts. But I highly doubt Don't Panic would bring a dps commando against any good team because they would shut that commando down faster than a mexican ****** can go down on you.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.14.2012 , 10:02 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Since when does GR/CB being instant somehow stop melee from leaping at you and snaring/rooting you so you can't simply run away?

Snipers/sages do well because they have tools that prevent or allow them to escape melee.
instead of being leapt to and having your cast interrupted, your current attack would go through and you would be able to keep using those skills because they are instant. meaning youre DPS output would be maintained while under pressure, and while you try to move away. right now, a mercs damage output drops off the chart when they are under pressure.

i dont understand what you want Merc to have for utility? if you dont want to be leapt to, play a sniper. if you want to be able to force run away and stun a crapload of people, play a sage. unfortunately for you Merc is a completely different class with different mechanics, therefore serves a different role in the group.

Merc does not *need* an escape ability. If i had to list the top 5 things i wanted for the class, it wouldnt be in there. I would really, really, really like to be able to do what i signed up for (ranged DPS) first and foremost. Bioware needs to fix that before they start giving Merc new utility skills.

a reliable slow would go a long way, instant cast would help a lot with our vulnerability to being interrupted, and a few tweaks to abilities (concussion missile, rocket punch, etc) to make them more usable is really all that is needed.

edit: also, the arguments so far against instant cast have been 1) will be too good at kiting, 2) will increase DPS of those abilities, and 3) not being able to interrupt Mercs will make them OP (lol at that btw). and now we've got you saying that Instant cast TM/PS / GR/CB would not help Merc/Commado with kiting
Da'ny - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Piam's Avatar


Piam
11.14.2012 , 10:12 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Dunno who Season is since I quit a few months ago, and only resubbed to get my cartel coins, and haven't really played much except play alts. But I highly doubt Don't Panic would bring a dps commando against any good team because they would shut that commando down faster than a mexican ****** can go down on you.
Mis's alt.

Ranged classes don't get blown up/shut down if they are in a good team in RWZs.

Not to say Commandos are good. Like I mentioned before, their utility sucks and DPS Sage brings way more to the table.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.14.2012 , 11:34 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
instead of being leapt to and having your cast interrupted, your current attack would go through and you would be able to keep using those skills because they are instant. meaning youre DPS output would be maintained while under pressure, and while you try to move away. right now, a mercs damage output drops off the chart when they are under pressure.
And according to you, our dps isn't up to par with melee, so we'd still die before killing our melee opponent. We'd still not have utility. Dps commando problems NOT solved.

Quote:
i dont understand what you want Merc to have for utility? if you dont want to be leapt to, play a sniper. if you want to be able to force run away and stun a crapload of people, play a sage. unfortunately for you Merc is a completely different class with different mechanics, therefore serves a different role in the group.
I guess you haven't done much or any RWZs, because utility matters a lot. Why would you bring dps that has little to no utility when you can bring another class that has just as good dps, but utility. Your instant cast GR/CB idea still won't make teams want to bring dps commandos. Problem NOT solved.

Quote:
Merc does not *need* an escape ability. If i had to list the top 5 things i wanted for the class, it wouldnt be in there. I would really, really, really like to be able to do what i signed up for (ranged DPS) first and foremost. Bioware needs to fix that before they start giving Merc new utility skills.
Yes they do. If you don't want to get killed by melee, you need a way to effectively escape them and keep them away from you.

Quote:
a reliable slow would go a long way, instant cast would help a lot with our vulnerability to being interrupted, and a few tweaks to abilities (concussion missile, rocket punch, etc) to make them more usable is really all that is needed.
We also need utility so we're wanted in pvp groups, especially since--according to you--our dps won't be better with GR/CB being instant.

Quote:
edit: also, the arguments so far against instant cast have been 1) will be too good at kiting, 2) will increase DPS of those abilities, and 3) not being able to interrupt Mercs will make them OP (lol at that btw). and now we've got you saying that Instant cast TM/PS / GR/CB would not help Merc/Commado with kiting
It won't help with kiting. Kiting means being able to keep melee away from you while doing dps. Instant GR/CB allows you to dps, but won't keep melee off you.