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P2W is bad?


Belly's Avatar


Belly
11.13.2012 , 06:05 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Wainamoinen View Post
I saw someone hacking once, where their King and a rook swapped places. Bioware did nothing.
+1

moarchars
Larcen 50(ish) Scoundrel Scrapper/Sawbones "They see me rollin...they hatin. They whining and sayin that I need some nerfin"
The Progenitor
And loads and loads of alts

DarthFamine's Avatar


DarthFamine
11.13.2012 , 06:09 AM | #42
What a fascinating discussion.
I am that guy with a full time job, who works 60+ hours a week.
I have been playing since beta and have three level 50 toons so I think you can get a good idea of how much time I get to spend in game.

I do not like the grind for gear, and I agree that separating PVE and PVP gear is bad because now I have to grind twice as long and consequently I am far behind the curve on alot of things.

For example I have yet to clear EC hard mode, or TFB in any mode
I also do not have a toon yet with max valor and war hero gear.

I will do these things in time, my sage is slowly gaining valor, I think he's rank 53 now and my Sent recently got EC SM onto farm mode. My progress is necessarily slow. Had I more time It would be better.

My accomplishments are not epic, but they are mine and paying for them with cash makes them no accomplishment at all.
"It might be fear, or anger, or hatred, or perhaps even suffering that makes a man fall to the dark side, but it is without a doubt regret, that keeps him there."
-Darth Famine
www.RJKgaming.com

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
11.13.2012 , 06:10 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post

Give me a reason why pay to win is bad.
Because it creates inequality between those who have money and those who don't.
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
11.13.2012 , 06:15 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by falcon_Xtreme View Post
your knowledge of software as leverage would be an exploit against the eula and tos. where as paying money is operating within conditions offered by ea/bioware its a ingame store. subscription vs f2p does the exact same thing but on a smaller level. sub =unlimited warzones and f2p limited, thats a gear curve distinction right there, by you guessed it... money.
So we come full circle. P2W is already implemented. It's called paying your sub.

It's funny though. You stating eula and tos as the reason why I am not permitted to cheat through knowhow since you're trying to debunk my argument, why don't you do that without using the arbitrary ruleset BW has created?
(especially since it's against the ToS/EULA to use gold-sellers, so P2W is NOT allowed by the same rules as you're throwing at me)

Future changes to the ToS and EULA may make it possible to P2W through the sanctioned RMTs, future changes in the ToS and EULA may make it legit to cheat. Don't use arbitrary rulesets as canon when arguing please.
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
11.13.2012 , 06:15 AM | #45
Originally Posted by Zunayson Give me a reason why pay to win is bad....

Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
Because it creates inequality between those who have money and those who don't.
or ... just throwing this out there.....Give me a reason why pay to win is good?....

Because it creates equality between those who have time and those who don't.
REDZONE & PROUD!

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
11.13.2012 , 06:26 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by falcon_Xtreme View Post
Originally Posted by Zunayson Give me a reason why pay to win is bad....



or ... just throwing this out there.....Give me a reason why pay to win is good?....

Because it creates equality between those who have time and those who don't.
Two wrongs does not make a right.
Gear progression is the reason there is a gear gap. (I am not a fan of gear progression btw. It's nothing but a Skinner's Box)
P2W will alleviate the difference IF the people with money are the exact same ones who aren't fully geared.

See what I am hinting at?

I'm guessing alot of the people who PRIORITIZE their time to grind gear in this game will be PRIORITIZING disposable income towards grinding faster.

SOME people who prioritize RL over SWTOR may prioritize some of their disposable income towards the game.

You are not going to spend loads of cash on a game you play to have fun IF the only way to have fun is:

1) Paying a monthly sub
AND
2) pay RMTs to become competative enough to have fun..

I dislike it when I am forced to pay twice for the things I enjoy doing in my spare time.

(I am a casual, with lots of RL stuff to do, I've managed to get a full WH main and a near full WH secondary without feeling too left behind)
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.13.2012 , 06:31 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by falcon_Xtreme View Post
Originally Posted by Zunayson Give me a reason why pay to win is bad....



or ... just throwing this out there.....Give me a reason why pay to win is good?....

Because it creates equality between those who have time and those who don't.
Tell me why a person who doesn't have time to play the game would want to play the most competitive aspect of PvP with those who put hundreds if not THOUSANDS of hours of dedicated, hard work and practice into the game?

Time doesn't equal money. Time is worth far more than money. Time brings knowledge and understanding. Money does not. The P2W guy who has time to play the game what maybe two hours a week but has full WH armor would stil hinder his team simply because he wouldn't be familiar with his class or the maps or enemy classes enough. There's a good chance he'd leave, anyway, when he realizes that his super WH armor doesn't help him win a bit. It doesn't put a healer in his group, it doesn't make him less susceptible to cc, it doesn't prevent everyone from playing the fotm classes.

But at the same time going P2W would mean that all the GOOD players and professional players would buy the gear because they are always looking for an edge over each other. It would make things spiral out of control.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

chimex's Avatar


chimex
11.13.2012 , 06:42 AM | #48
I understand the argument that some players dont have all the time in the world to play, I'm one of them. I have a job, bills to pay and all the rest of it. However, having a P2W structure WILL create inbalance. There is a degree of equality when it comes to the "grind" as eventually, everyone will get on equal par.

However, with P2W, not everybody can afford these microtransactions, unequality at it's finest.

Of course, many would argue "you pay the sub, so what's so wrong with micro transactions?" That's the point, I am paying the sub so to get everything included in the game. There is no "extra" bits i need in the way of stats or performance, I have it. To pay extra on top of that to get better items and clear progression, is unfair and unequal!
The Progenitor (RP): Shazmi:<Crimson Moon>

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
11.13.2012 , 07:05 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DaedalusV View Post

Future changes to the ToS and EULA may make it possible to P2W through the sanctioned RMTs, future changes in the ToS and EULA may make it legit to cheat. Don't use arbitrary rulesets as canon when arguing please It's funny though. You stating eula and tos as the reason why I am not permitted to cheat through knowhow since you're trying to debunk my argument, why don't you do that without using the arbitrary ruleset BW has created?(especially since it's against the ToS/EULA to use gold-sellers, so P2W is NOT allowed by the same rules as you're throwing at me)
I cant use arbitrary rulesets but you can use hyperthetical changes to the EULA and TOS? I dont have to debunk your argument P2W is defined by the service provider. Store = ok .. Buying and selling gold = not ok. software "knowhow" ...... well thats for EULA TOS to decide
REDZONE & PROUD!

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
11.13.2012 , 07:07 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
Tell me why a person who doesn't have time to play the game would want to play the most competitive aspect of PvP with those who put hundreds if not THOUSANDS of hours of dedicated, hard work and practice into the game?

Time doesn't equal money. Time is worth far more than money. Time brings knowledge and understanding. Money does not. The P2W guy who has time to play the game what maybe two hours a week but has full WH armor would stil hinder his team simply because he wouldn't be familiar with his class or the maps or enemy classes enough. There's a good chance he'd leave, anyway, when he realizes that his super WH armor doesn't help him win a bit. It doesn't put a healer in his group, it doesn't make him less susceptible to cc, it doesn't prevent everyone from playing the fotm classes.

But at the same time going P2W would mean that all the GOOD players and professional players would buy the gear because they are always looking for an edge over each other. It would make things spiral out of control.
because i can. how you play is up to you. how I play is my business.
REDZONE & PROUD!