Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

P2W is bad?


Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.13.2012 , 06:50 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Invictusthetaru View Post
Smash that is the most *** backward logic I have ever read. Time = Money. That is logic. Why do you have such an issue with people wanting to P2C. Pay to COMPETE. Nothing in this game would let players who PAY have an advantage over those who don't (if both subscribers). If anything it could make them EQUAL.

If you are skilled this will NOT matter.
Maybe you should read my other comments about how P2W will essentially FORCE the most competitive players to buy gear every time a new tier comes out in order to compete. This type of pay2win will ruin any ladder/ranking system BW intends to implement when RWZ seasons roll out.

Invictusthetaru's Avatar


Invictusthetaru
11.13.2012 , 06:50 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Except that when you have two equally skilled teams playing, but one team has richer parents/higher income/whatever and the other team doesn't, then the team with more money gets out ahead whenever a new tier of gear comes out. They will be able to all instantly buy the brand new tier of gear, where the other equally skilled team has to grind it out. When these two equally skilled teams face off in RWZs, the better geared team wins 100% of the time.
Disagree. The people who play all the time will still have the advantage and will earn the gear.
Ladle- 65 Sentinel
Ladled- 65 Commando
Spinalcheck- 65 Scoundrel
Tongs-65 Gunslinger

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.13.2012 , 06:51 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by Invictusthetaru View Post
Disagree. The people who play all the time will still have the advantage and will earn the gear.
Yes, because they play more. That's fine. You put more effort into something, u should be rewarded over someone who hasn't put as much effort into it. That also has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Invictusthetaru's Avatar


Invictusthetaru
11.13.2012 , 06:53 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Yes, because they play more. That's fine. You put more effort into something, u should be rewarded over someone who hasn't put as much effort into it. That also has nothing to do with what I wrote.
Yes it does. You are saying people can pay and stomp on people. That has never and will never be the case. People stomp on people all the time now as it is.

If something will bring players and revenue into the game, I am for it. I have no lack of confidence in my abilities when I hit the queue button.
Ladle- 65 Sentinel
Ladled- 65 Commando
Spinalcheck- 65 Scoundrel
Tongs-65 Gunslinger

DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
11.13.2012 , 07:02 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Except that when you have two equally skilled teams playing, but one team has richer parents/higher income/whatever and the other team doesn't, then the team with more money gets out ahead whenever a new tier of gear comes out. They will be able to all instantly buy the brand new tier of gear, where the other equally skilled team has to grind it out. When these two equally skilled teams face off in RWZs, the better geared team wins 100% of the time.
This is a good point as it could actually lead to P2W if not properly handled. It would therefore be in BW's best interest not to introduce such items into the Store until sufficient time had passed for their standard gameplay acquisition. From a Sales point of view, they could even introduce the items individually over a pre-determined period of time.

So a good objection, but easily remedied. BW would just have to define and maintain the line of Convenience, Not Advantage regarding these items and their normal gameplay acquisition.
Alphanoob, Alpha-zen (among others) - Garbage S1 Champion
Ebon Hawk | Harbinger
SWTOR 4.3: It was good while it lasted. Thanks BW

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.13.2012 , 07:04 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
And the claim that these peeps would become instant winners because of this is absurd. Trust me, a large lot of players in this game are just bad. All the gear in the world won't help them succeed. The idea that you will Win in PvP just because you can gear up with CC is absurd. Bad players are bad and would still get smoked even in Elite War Hero Uber Jedi PWN Gear. BW will just be that much richer and we won't have to listen to the gear grind/gap excuses anymore.
I tend to agree, though true P2W (which is what is being discussed) is items being sold that can not be received in game (or if they are available, the amount of effort to get them is so much... it's literally not possible.)

For Example:

Perfect World International has a refining system for gear, where you use a mirage celestone (uncomon item) and attempt to get a +1 on to an item (Which adds damage or Hp depending on the type of item.) Each refine adds another +1 (so +1, +2, +3, +4...) up to +12.

Now the first +1 is like a 33% chance, but the second is 20%. If you -fail- a refine attempt, the item resets to zero. The third +1 (+3) is like 5%, and +4 is down to (1%)... and it keeps getting worse. Anyone one can tell getting above a +4 with limited mirage stones is next to impossible. Yet the cash shop sells Dragon orbs, which guarantee a refine up to the level of the orb. So to get the maximum refine (12) Your have to buy a Dragon Orb 1, Dragin Orb 2, Dragon Orb 3... all the way up. (Literally a few hundred dollars.) The difference on an item +3 (possible for free) or +8 (must buy orbs) is -noticeable.- Like +50 hp vs. +300 hp.

Then there is the gear. Gear doesn't drop from Instances, only pieces for it (both common and rare mats.) Rare mats have a drop rate down in the 1-2% and you need 2 of them... even worse... everyone needs 2 of them so there is constant fighting over who gets it. Of course, you can -buy- those rare mats... A bit expensive, but even at minimum wage you could still afford those rare mats in 1/20th the time it would take to farm them.

To tie into my earlier arguments, P2W takes the challenges out of the game and gives you the rewards. PWI didn't start that bad, they just got worse and worse, starting with just selling currency and a few exp boosts to finally selling gear you literally could not get by playing the game.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.13.2012 , 07:26 PM | #117
You do realize the game is p2w once f2p comes out. You MUST spend money OR pay a sub for the simple privilege of equipping best gear- meaning, f2p CANNOT ever be as powerful as someone who has paid.

Unless you can earn cartel coins somehow in game.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.13.2012 , 07:34 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
You do realize the game is p2w once f2p comes out. You MUST spend money OR pay a sub for the simple privilege of equipping best gear- meaning, f2p CANNOT ever be as powerful as someone who has paid.

Unless you can earn cartel coins somehow in game.
<.< Ya... I think the Dev/Exec who decided f2p's can't equip certian gear needs to be smacked upside the head. That being said... it -is- suppose to be a subscription based game. As someone else mentioned, f2p is more like an extended trial.

I worry for this game, I really do.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.13.2012 , 08:08 PM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
This is a good point as it could actually lead to P2W if not properly handled. It would therefore be in BW's best interest not to introduce such items into the Store until sufficient time had passed for their standard gameplay acquisition. From a Sales point of view, they could even introduce the items individually over a pre-determined period of time.

So a good objection, but easily remedied. BW would just have to define and maintain the line of Convenience, Not Advantage regarding these items and their normal gameplay acquisition.
Then it's not really pay2win anymore if you delay when the gear gets put up on the cash shop long enough that everyone's "main" has had a chance to grind it out normally. I would love to be able to buy gears for all my 50s since I love rolling alts, but don't have the time to spend gearing them ALL up.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.13.2012 , 08:20 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
<.< Ya... I think the Dev/Exec who decided f2p's can't equip certian gear needs to be smacked upside the head. That being said... it -is- suppose to be a subscription based game. As someone else mentioned, f2p is more like an extended trial.

I worry for this game, I really do.
With epics though- you cannot win at level 50 pvp and might not even be accepted in HMs.

Never mind lack of extra quickbars- which in pvp is a pretty nasty thing to handle (two at least lets you use most of your combat abilities- if they'd went with one they'd have completely screwed everyone over).

Thing is- f2p is supposed to be enticing. While this f2p may indeed encourage people who like it to get a sub- even a slight glance over tells you paying in the f2p model is a very bad idea in this game unless you're an extreme casual who doesn't really like dungeons or pvp. Now- you might say 'well obviously SWTOR wants people to sub', but that is very poor decision making. All f2p games that have made money have done so off of the f2p- being f2p is actually appealing in other games and encourages you to be f2p AND spend money. This game though is pretty unappealing to play as a f2p while paying money.