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Enough of exploiting ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Enough of exploiting ranked warzones

To-le's Avatar


To-le
11.14.2012 , 03:31 PM | #51
I have to say there are some well posted thoughts in this thread. I participated in the pug ranked grouping 1 time and loved it. Yes it was slow to organize and to get the queues to match. However it was fun. With the current system as it is, Bioware has allowed this and not addressed it to this point. When ranked first came out I got my guild together and tried a few. We got smashed and 3 capped with no hope of winning, and now most wonít even bother queuing again.
If I ever get asked again to do the pug ranked I will absolutely do it again. People playing professions they want while getting ranked coms without all the smacktalk and L2P comments is win win.
Hats off to LD50. They know their crap and pretty much own the server with their A team. I donít mind at all queuing against them with other well geared pubs however if the fights are not even close and there is no hope of ever winning, I would rather hang out with my wife as she watches a twilight marathon for the upcoming movie.

To-le's Avatar


To-le
11.14.2012 , 03:37 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by stringcat View Post
They don't have to "gimp" themselves. But no one has to play against them, either.

If they're unhappy to hang out in empty warzones, well, the onus is really on them, because they are the ones crying about the status quo. That's how the real world works. Other players aren't going to suddenly discover a desire to be repeatedly stomped without a fighting chance.
LOL well said. I like how the pug group will switch people if one group beats the other 2 times in a row. It makes it more fair and more fun.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.14.2012 , 03:45 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
Whatever makes you sleep at night. I'd say it's still win trading since the other team mates will eventually bail out if you don't keep the matches fair (according to an earlier post by you). What you are doing shouldn't be rewarded since it's a gray area and you are probably using the system in a way it isn't actually intended. I guess we need some official BW feedback on that one. If it's allowed they could just allow training matches without rewards where you can pick your opponents.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think putting together opponents and/or balancing teams is an abuse. If we actually agreed to win trade (Ie didn't play, just let the first team cap and win, then the second team cap and win) then I hope each and every one of us gets temp banned.

Training matches would be a fantastic idea.

Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
My point being is that we need x-server queues and proper matchmaking. I don't know how starcraft does it but I doubt a person at the bottom of the ranking will meet the number 1 in a ranked match no matter how long the queue times are. I don't think that player will learn much by facing the number 1 except how to lose very fast.

My point being is that RWZ will continue to be the same faces
=P we're actually in agreement. <.< me wonders why you couldn't just say yhat in the Premades are Ruining Wz's thread.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.14.2012 , 03:54 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
two teams that want to play each other on a dead queue (except for the one elite grp) changes nothing. the elite team would be in queue against thin air either way. I suppose you could call it an exploit, except declining a queue counts as a loss, which direclty affects one's rating. so if they're arranging matches while a 3rd team is in the queue, then they either A) aren't doing it to bolster their rating, or B) are doing it to inflate their rating and have no clue how ratings work.

rated, at least on my server, is no longer the place for the elite to test themselves. the elite either moved on or joined the one guild that constantly sits in queue. the system is broken. no matter how bad one team is, they're GOING TO END UP AGAINST THE ONE ELITE TEAM IN QUEUE, and they're going to end up against them 90% of the time. matching in a rated system is designed to produce balanced matches, isn't it? I thought it was. if you need to exploit the system to do it, then I say so be it. .
I think we're going to disagree here. In normal wz's (I've advocated for a mix of matchmaking and self-reliance) I totally agree a matchmaking system should be balanced as best it can, without killing queue times.

In ranked, we're talking about exihibition, best effort, etc... Balance is in how well you make your team. We're not seeing two teams just wanting to have a balanced and fun match. This is literally an exploit to get 16 people ranked comms.

Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
my last rated adventure was a couple days ago. it was mostly my guild + 3 pugs. it took about an hour to put the team together. another pug from a lesser guild also entered the queue. it was CW. we wrecked them. it wasn't a contest. our gm was bored to tears. it wasn't fun. we felt sorry for the other pug and (most of us) left their node alone.

the one elite guild got wind that someone was in q and put a team together. the other pug stopped Queueing. we met the elite guild in hb, and they wrecked us. *shrug* we decided that we could tolerate one more *** whupping before giving up on rated. so we went into NC and it took the other guys a while to cap south, but there was no moving them off a node once they had it, so that was that. 100-0. nobody else is in queue. fighting the other guild is futile. ok. great. well...rated queues are over and done with again. So that's 60 minutes of organization for ~30m of action, 23m of which were completely lopsided. .
Agreed, ranked is difficult to set up. At the same time, don't you think the "elite" team in the queue probably had similiar trouble? Perhaps they don't need to look for pug's, but they still need 8 people of decent composition to be online and willing to team up. It is then acceptable to deny them a match based on "The teams trying to get ranked comms just want a balanced match?"

Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
if the goal is to have fun - and that is my goal - then it's more than just winning. rofl stomping the pug wasn't fun. getting pwned by the other guild isnt't fun. drafting two teams to play each other is fun. it's only bad for the rating whore who can't farm rating on ppl that have no business playing him in the first place. until the system is miraculously fixed - I doubt it ever will or can be at this point - I think manufacturing 8v8s is the way to go.

btw: this wasn't always the case. the state of rated has changed on my server. it used to be just the opposite and ppl actively dodged certain guilds to inflate their rating. I don't think that's the case anymore. frankly, what's-her-face doesn't play anymore, and all the remaining good players from her guild are in the top guild now anyway. the top imp guilds went away. it's not elite's dodging elites to inflate their ratings anymore.
<.< I'd say we need practice matching capabilities then, though that might kill pvp as we know it lol. I agree the goal of a game is to have fun, but we're talking different uses of a system for it. Ranked was designed for top-end pvp, which to top end pvper's (if they get a proper match) is fun. I realize it's not fun for pugs/weaker teams to lose, but they need to find their fun somewhere else.

To-le's Avatar


To-le
11.14.2012 , 04:05 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Agreed, ranked is difficult to set up. At the same time, don't you think the "elite" team in the queue probably had similiar trouble? Perhaps they don't need to look for pug's, but they still need 8 people of decent composition to be online and willing to team up. It is then acceptable to deny them a match based on "The teams trying to get ranked comms just want a balanced match?".
I would say yes since the system allows it. Consider the alternative. If there was no way to pick your fights, pugs would stay in regular wz's so there would still be no fighting for the elite team queued.

The best solution is to do cross server and allow the lower rated peeps to fight themselves but who knows when that will happen. Bioware doesn't seem to have pvp on the front burner. I personally wish there was better world pvp.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.14.2012 , 04:21 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by To-le View Post
I would say yes since the system allows it. Consider the alternative. If there was no way to pick your fights, pugs would stay in regular wz's so there would still be no fighting for the elite team queued.

The best solution is to do cross server and allow the lower rated peeps to fight themselves but who knows when that will happen. Bioware doesn't seem to have pvp on the front burner. I personally wish there was better world pvp.
Yet the system does not allow it, it's an exploit of the system that allows it (bad system). If the system allowed it, it would just let you pick the enemy team. Instead, in order to pick your opponent you have to communicate whether you both got a pop, then join/decline based on whether or not the other team will be against you.

That being said, yes if those teams weren't in queue the "elite" team wouldn't get a pop any way. However, those two teams wouldn't be getting rewards either. That's the main problem, is people exploiting the system to gain ranked comms. Not just that they're avoiding the other team, but they're doing so for profit/gain.

denpic's Avatar


denpic
11.14.2012 , 04:38 PM | #57
Is your team one that always pushes for 3caps and Farms players at the respawn
It's not your responsibility to make the game enjoyable for other teams but you can without losing make them
Feel like they are getting somthing accomplished and want to requeue
I recently started queue for ranked in a new guild we are still learning and lose quite often to a particular guild
We opened communication with these guys and they gave us plenty of info as some of our players had no clue with pvp strats etc, we roll over most pug teams and guilds of similar gear levels as we are mostly bm geared we had to change our tactics slightly to keep these other teams queuing against us So we never go for a three cap in aldraan and novare and never push them back to the spawn some maps like huttball and void star you dont get that and just have to roll them but we want as many people to get medals for comms if they lose as to not make ranked a worse option than normal warzones

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.14.2012 , 05:20 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post

In ranked, we're talking about exihibition, best effort, etc... Balance is in how well you make your team. We're not seeing two teams just wanting to have a balanced and fun match. This is literally an exploit to get 16 people ranked comms..
lol no. I have two fully optimized troopers. (although how I "optimized" them is comical). anyway, I don't need comms. I would say that of the 16 ppl, 5-6 did not need comms. some got on alts simply to balance the roles. yeah, it's faster comms for the ppl who aren't optimized. but the point is to balance the teams. so there were an equal number of geared and ungeared players on each team. everybody was on voice. man. it was fun. I wish I didn't have to go to work the next day, or I'd have played all night.

why does it even matter if ungeared players get rated comms and gear faster anyway? I'm not opposed to a gear grind, but if skill and teamwork are what wins, then why should you (or anyone) care if someone else gets rated comms faster? I mean...wasn't civic on the forums trying to convince undergeared players to queue for ranked and get rofl stomped because it rewards rated comms, and 40 of those are still more valuable than 100 reg comms per match?
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

AngelAlkaiser's Avatar


AngelAlkaiser
11.14.2012 , 05:48 PM | #59
This is a tough argument. I have to disagree with the OP, though. There is no "practice" mode. Optimizing an 8 man team is a difficult task. Some people are more teachable than others. If you need gear in order to compete, you should not even be queuing for rank warzones.

Saying that, you might think "Which means they are just exploiting". If they have no desire to be competitive, then yes, it is an exploit. If it's sincere, then I think you need to label this differently. Ranked warzones are in such a dark place, that if these people doing this are actually benefitting themselves, (and perhaps you, at a later point) then you should find it acceptable. Then again, the ol' saying goes "It's lonely at the top."

Furthermore, if I were you, I would put alts in other guilds and try to become apart of their PvP teams, and I would encourage my friends to do the same. This way you are actually showing you're sincere in your want for competition, and have no problem helping them get there.

As for 3-capping... Going back to the baseball reference. You don't swipe bags when you're up by 5.

"Not only am I going to beat you to the ground, but I'm going to shove your face in a steaming pile of ****, too."

Not really classy, OP. It's not classy for them to leave the RWZ either, but I wouldn't show class to someone who shows no class to me.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.14.2012 , 05:56 PM | #60
yikes. hit back and reloaded double post. sry.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.