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Enough of exploiting ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Enough of exploiting ranked warzones

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
11.13.2012 , 05:21 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by NamikazeNaruto View Post
Actually no, we don't really get hardly any rating for standing around, because none of them even enter the game. Hence we usually stand around for 10-15 minutes just to get 1 rating at the very most, for that game. There are times we do not get to play at all because all the teams are purposely avoiding us, even if it means forfeiting the match and losing their points, while we gain 1 point.

You really think BW intended for a particular group of people to not be able to play anyone in ranked because everyone would rather lose their rating outright than try and play against them? I'm saying that those on the republic side just do a /who "Our Guild Name" when they get a ranked queue, and if they see us vanish from the fleet, or if they see some other way that we just got a queue, none of that team will enter the ranked match, which is why we get 1 point.

So you really think it's fair that our guild hardly ever gets to play ranked because 75% of other ranked teams avoids us like the plague, even at the expense of losing their own rating. Meanwhile we stand on the fleet all night or in empty warzones while others get to play ranked against each other.
Thats the price of being awesome man. If the New England Patriots kept going to the local park to play pick up games with HS kids, eventually they would show up to an empty park.

You can make the game more enjoyable for your opponents without throwing the game, if your pride demands you 3-cap, then their self-interest demands they avoid you. Maybe that's something to think about as a guild. If you are so good that winning is a foregone conclusion, maybe you are good enough to control the pace and flow of the game in it's entirety. Should you "have" to? Probably not. But people definitely do not "have" to play against you if they don't want to.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

Uber_the_Goober's Avatar


Uber_the_Goober
11.13.2012 , 05:53 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
It's up to you if you want to scare off everyone else from RWZ. It's not encouraging for people new to RWZ to be stomped by veterans. It's not like you'll learn anything from being 3-capped and farmed at the respawn. They'll do 1 or 2 such warzones and then just stop trying. You can't actually want such one sided fights either if you are doing it for the competition. I can only see one solution to your dilemma and that's to either unsub, wait for x-server or do something about the RWZ situation like other dominant guilds have done on other servers. For example splitting up you A-team and inviting new people to balance out the teams. Hop on alts if you are afraid of losing rating. Then slowly hope you build a stable RWZ community.
Read this OP, and learn.

Seriously, this is supposed to be a multiplayer game. Running around the 4th grade playground beating up kids when you're in a gang of 8th graders makes you a childish *****. Doing the same thing in RWZ's makes you appear the same, and people are smart enough to avoid this.

Who on earth would want to lose that hard, that often? The other players are NOT there for you to smash on. Help them get better, or just play against yourself.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.13.2012 , 06:06 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Read this OP, and learn.

Seriously, this is supposed to be a multiplayer game. Running around the 4th grade playground beating up kids when you're in a gang of 8th graders makes you a childish *****. Doing the same thing in RWZ's makes you appear the same, and people are smart enough to avoid this.

Who on earth would want to lose that hard, that often? The other players are NOT there for you to smash on. Help them get better, or just play against yourself.
We're all (most of us) grown adults here.

<.< Ya know, I'm usually a democrat... but this stinks of welfare. I -almost- get the crying in normal wz's, but this is ranked.

The OP is not describing a dead queue. He's describing two teams forming and entering ranked to get the ranked comms (Ranked Loss is still more normal comms than a normal win) and then leaving/avoiding his team, who are doing everything right. They are formed up, organized, and want to play.

That this is even acceptable, and that people are trying to blame it on his team for being good is beyond belief. If you enter ranked, you fight whatever team is there. If you lose, you lose. If you can't handle losing, go back to normal. The fact that ranked is dead (besides being harder to start) is a sign of how terrible most of the players are in this game. Sucks, but I guess being Star Wars has pulled in more of the fan boys/girls than the actual MMO players.

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
11.13.2012 , 06:31 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
We're all (most of us) grown adults here.

<.< Ya know, I'm usually a democrat... but this stinks of welfare. I -almost- get the crying in normal wz's, but this is ranked.

The OP is not describing a dead queue. He's describing two teams forming and entering ranked to get the ranked comms (Ranked Loss is still more normal comms than a normal win) and then leaving/avoiding his team, who are doing everything right. They are formed up, organized, and want to play.

That this is even acceptable, and that people are trying to blame it on his team for being good is beyond belief. If you enter ranked, you fight whatever team is there. If you lose, you lose. If you can't handle losing, go back to normal. The fact that ranked is dead (besides being harder to start) is a sign of how terrible most of the players are in this game. Sucks, but I guess being Star Wars has pulled in more of the fan boys/girls than the actual MMO players.
Well you are guilty of arranging just the same so I'm not sure you can have a moral high ground here. As for the death of ranked it is because of a too low population and non-existent matchmaking. When I play corporation football (corporation sports is more or less a Swedish sports movement) with friends I don't expect to meet a premier league team. One could argue that RWZ is the premier league but that would simply mean we need more "leagues" or match making based on ranking. No one is going to watch, enjoy or bet on a match everyone already knows the outcome of before it starts.

No amount of training for that matter ever going to get our corporation team into premier league. It's not like every football team out there plays in premier league now do they? However people can still compete against teams that have comparable skill level. People are going to watch, bet and enjoy such matches. The cream of PvP doesn't get instant pops? Yeah that's because you are awesome and there aren't many out there that ever is going to become as good as you even with dedicated training. Just like real life and football.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.13.2012 , 07:12 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
Well you are guilty of arranging just the same so I'm not sure you can have a moral high ground here.
Difference with what my guild does:

We form one team and queue. If nothing pops, we form 2 teams with a few friends and play (if able, sometimes it's buggy or we don't have 8 other people to add to our 8)

If another team enters the queue, we fight them. If they're good, we remove the 8 friends and form our orginal ranked team.

We do not enter ranked and then leave/avoid another team so our two teams can farm each other.

<.< Should probably comprehend something before pointing fingers. Your point about football has nothing to do with ranked, it more applies to normal wz's (which are a community playground really. You have no control over who uses it.)

Pyrinoos's Avatar


Pyrinoos
11.13.2012 , 08:08 PM | #36
If able I'll play anyone anytime, and accept that I'm no where near the best pvper, but not everyone has that attitude, and the issue really comes down to personal awareness/sportsmanship. I'm not saying lose on purpose, I'm saying from Ebon Hawks experiences with ranked there comes a time the best ranked teams should take their foot off the gas for the sake of the que.
I've never been that top dog in ranked, but I know from running premades in normal, escpecially from the slow que days back on Shien, that there comes a time to give pugs a break. Say you've run to the data core in around 3:30. If the que is slow and your fighting pugs, giving them (wink wink slow response from side to side) the first door will at least give them some hope and maybe they'll still que. Stonewalling them or 3 capping and spawn farming in novora and civil just kills the other teams desire to continue. Give them hope/show respect for them and the chances they'll reque go up drastically.

I know that's not what hyper competitive players want to hear but that's what it will take to maintain a heathly pvp que.....
(know that absolutely nothing I've said here refers to full rival teams, go all out and burn them, that's what rivalries are all about.)
<Silent Council> Lamech - Assassin | A'chan - Mercenary
<Berserk> Zillah - PT | Koráh - Sniper
<Project Mayhem> Lamęch - Mara | Sethur - Op | Amalek - Jugg
Slade legacy on The Ebon Hawk

Zoiks's Avatar


Zoiks
11.13.2012 , 08:19 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by SajPl View Post
So a merk that wants to do ranked should be forced to fight against a lolmara. I mean seriously fighting the best of the best, best at rolling fotm? You cant call somebody best if he is plaing mara, because he has so many defensive cooldowns that surviving compared to a merk is easy mode and doing damage ... well anyone who thinks lolsmashspec is hard needs some serious help. So yeah why should a team full of merks for example want to play against a team full of warriors.
This game is chock full of pvp imbalance. We all know this, at least all of us who have played more than just one or two classes/specs competitively. Clearly team build is going to have a huge impact on team strength, then toss in player skill/knowledge levels, gear, communication, and players who play together ALL the time vs players who rarely do. Obviously the best ranked teams are going to take advantage of all of the above.

Is it fair? Of course not. But that's why it's ranked, it's meant to be the most dedicated pvpers competing. Not, "Hey, letz make a pug to getz more commz! Herpaderp!". If people don't like that, they have every right not to do ranked warzones. Trying to make it the other way around completely defeats the purpose of having a ranked queue in the first place.

If you want pvp imbalance fixed, somehow get some dev attention paid to it, don't screw over rwzs for the players it was designed for.

MagicmanNC's Avatar


MagicmanNC
11.13.2012 , 09:35 PM | #38
The fact that a common suggestion seems to be for these good teams to somehow "gimp" themselves for RWZs is mind-boggling.


MIND


BOGGLING




It's like telling Sandy Koufax to pitch right-handed

Pyrinoos's Avatar


Pyrinoos
11.14.2012 , 07:28 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by MagicmanNC View Post
The fact that a common suggestion seems to be for these good teams to somehow "gimp" themselves for RWZs is mind-boggling.
MIND
BOGGLING
It's like telling Sandy Koufax to pitch right-handed
that's definetly not what I'm saying. Baseball isn't the best sports analogy iimo, so let's use basketball.
Say a team is up 35 with 4 minutes to play, do they keep the starters in and keep pushing the fast break tempo, or is it considered good sportsmanship to sub some back of the bench guys and slow down the pace a little.
No trying to lose, not even gimping yourself, just realizing that you've already won and there is no need to embarrass the other team.
Remember i said I'll play anyone anywhere, anytime, but that to me is the issue with many people not taking part in ranked. They could maybe live with losing, but getting embarrassed and humiliated causes them to stop queuing.

Say you've won civil war with a 3 cap (pnr reached) pull defense off of one turent..... Don't just spawn camp....
<Silent Council> Lamech - Assassin | A'chan - Mercenary
<Berserk> Zillah - PT | Koráh - Sniper
<Project Mayhem> Lamęch - Mara | Sethur - Op | Amalek - Jugg
Slade legacy on The Ebon Hawk

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.14.2012 , 08:39 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
That this is even acceptable, and that people are trying to blame it on his team for being good is beyond belief. If you enter ranked, you fight whatever team is there. If you lose, you lose. If you can't handle losing, go back to normal. The fact that ranked is dead (besides being harder to start) is a sign of how terrible most of the players are in this game. Sucks, but I guess being Star Wars has pulled in more of the fan boys/girls than the actual MMO players.
even when we disagree, I find much of value in your replies. this, however, misses the major issue. while it's true that nobody wants to get stomped over and over again, so on and so forth, the fact of the matter is that ranked is the only way in which you can control team composition (i.e., all 8 players on the team). thus, it's the only possible way of manufacturing relatively even (i.e., competitive) matches. If you draft two teams from a 16 player pool, it doesn't matter if they're fully optimized, uber skilled or the opposite. you can still create a competitive match. you cannot do that in regular queues, and you certainly cannot do that in rated (at least not on my server). so unless you want a crapshoot (I'd say 1 in 10 in my experience) at landing in a competitive (close) WZ, then this is how you do it. as for the lone team that sits in queue all night and rofl stomps anyone who faces them, well..."frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

************ about this is no different than ************ about premades, so I do hope those who mock the logic of the premade QQ aren't also the ones backing this QQ. or at least acknowledge the hypocrisy of it.
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.