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Force bubble way OP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Force bubble way OP
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MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
11.20.2012 , 06:06 AM | #321
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
Force in Balance is virtually equivalent to Smash yet you don't see hordes of FIBers like you see hordes of Lolsmashers. Why? It's because sages are harder to play and more difficult to keep alive. Nothing to do with DPS output potential.
Sage is significally easier to play from a "keyboard point of view". The only thing that makes it somewhat challenging at the moment is that one ability, smash. And like the poster above me stated, FiB is not an auto crit like speced smash. Nor does it consistently hit for +5K against geared opponents. Hell, even +4K on people with low expetise can be challenging if you don't use force potency first. Smash will hit for upwards 6K on a sorc/sage in +1200 experitse and that's why the current bubble mechanic is our main weapon.

Let's say that you got rid of the bubble stun and compared a sorc to a mara skill for skill. The sorc would have to get a 10K auto-crit ability for it to somewhat add up, considering the light armor and whatnot.

I've been playing with the idea that sages/sorcs should get some form of stack mechanic. For every tele/FL tick they get +10 % damage to the next ability and applied dots. Stacks 5 times. That would have brought FiB/DF closer to smash.

MarcoGouveia's Avatar


MarcoGouveia
11.20.2012 , 09:05 AM | #322
i get the bubble absorbing damage i just dont get *** it has to give immunity to everything else. remove immunity or give it a 5 min CD.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.20.2012 , 09:26 AM | #323
Quote: Originally Posted by MarcoGouveia View Post
i get the bubble absorbing damage i just dont get *** it has to give immunity to everything else. remove immunity or give it a 5 min CD.
What do you mean by immunity? It only offers damage protection (about 3-4k) as well as a 3 second stun if specced into the lightning/tele tree.
I have opinions and stuff

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Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.20.2012 , 09:26 AM | #324
Quote: Originally Posted by MarcoGouveia View Post
i get the bubble absorbing damage i just dont get *** it has to give immunity to everything else. remove immunity or give it a 5 min CD.
You're misinformed.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasnt fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Rogean's Avatar


Rogean
11.20.2012 , 11:04 AM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
Force in Balance is virtually equivalent to Smash
LOL Wat?

Force in Balance does around 3k.. 4k on a squishy, if it crits. Smash auto crits, hits for 5k+ every time, and I've seen up to 8k on a squishy. Also, Smash hits 5 targets, Force in Balance hits 3.

Not even comparable.

islander's Avatar


islander
11.20.2012 , 11:27 AM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by Ugrah View Post
Sages/Sorcs don't get good numbers in WZs because they have no means to. There is no burst, only sustained damage. I guess the highest burst would be death field but that is nowhere near the smash. After death field you don't have that much tools to reduce one's HP further down. The figures on WZ scoreboards showing sorcerers damage are lies as every madness sorcerer who's dotting anyone and everyone with affliction knows. The figures in the table looks impressive but the fact which remains is that amount of sustained damage is relatively low when compared to any bursty class. In reality this means that having affliction on everybody would give sorcerer like 25k dmg but each target is hit for 2500HP max over period 16s (or more). That could be easily healed through and people are not really bothered about cleansing it anymore
Exactly this. Warzone objectives are largely all about bursting down opponents. Whether its securing a node or setting a bomb on a voidstar door. Killing slowly = unproductive.
As a madness spec DPS you are basically dot and run, dot and run. It's fair for open world situations, but very meh for warzones themselves. Not worthless, but certainly on the lower end of value for warzones.
Gllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
11.21.2012 , 09:13 AM | #327
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
Sage is significally easier to play from a "keyboard point of view". The only thing that makes it somewhat challenging at the moment is that one ability, smash. And like the poster above me stated, FiB is not an auto crit like speced smash. Nor does it consistently hit for +5K against geared opponents. Hell, even +4K on people with low expetise can be challenging if you don't use force potency first. Smash will hit for upwards 6K on a sorc/sage in +1200 experitse and that's why the current bubble mechanic is our main weapon.

Let's say that you got rid of the bubble stun and compared a sorc to a mara skill for skill. The sorc would have to get a 10K auto-crit ability for it to somewhat add up, considering the light armor and whatnot.

I've been playing with the idea that sages/sorcs should get some form of stack mechanic. For every tele/FL tick they get +10 % damage to the next ability and applied dots. Stacks 5 times. That would have brought FiB/DF closer to smash.
Sage is easier to play? That's wierd since I log in my sentinel whenever I want to relax and have fun without concentrating too much.

The amount of mistakes you can do as a sage in PvP is close to zero. As a sent/mara I can always pop a def CD or just stealth away from certain death.
Having a stacking mechanic is all fine and dandy, but if you put it on a channel/hard cast ability, you put sages in the same boat as merc/commando dps. We get interrupted and our dps is null and void.

I agree with you on some of the stuff though. Sage/Sorc full spec dps needs buffing/reworking for PvP.

I've already written in this thread about bubbles and my stance on the subject, no need to repeat it.
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
11.21.2012 , 09:46 AM | #328
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
Sage is significally easier to play from a "keyboard point of view".
From a "keyboard point of view" probably if you strictly count the number of useful abilities binded in shortcuts. But overall they are as difficult to play as any other class. As a dps sage nowdays you have to be both a "healer" keeping stun bubbles up, while at the same time doing effective dps (and this is beyond spamming tkt); only this dual-role by itself can be quite "exhausting". Also as a ranged dps it is easier to have an overall situation awareness and hence it is your "duty" to pay attention to how things evolve, while at the same time you have to defend/kite against those 3 smashers that think you are (still) an easy target.


Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
I've been playing with the idea that sages/sorcs should get some form of stack mechanic. For every tele/FL tick they get +10 % damage to the next ability and applied dots. Stacks 5 times. That would have brought FiB/DF closer to smash.
There are many ways to increase the dps of sages. One you are mentioning, others could be to reduce the channeling time of tkt or increase the bonus damage skills from 6% to 12%. To be honest after having played 1.4 for a bit now I'm not sure if increasing the dps of sages would be a wise idea as it will create an OP class.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
11.21.2012 , 09:57 AM | #329
Quote: Originally Posted by Ugrah View Post
Sages/Sorcs don't get good numbers in WZs because they have no means to.
Speak for yourself.

Jarfunkz's Avatar


Jarfunkz
11.21.2012 , 12:21 PM | #330
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
Speak for yourself.
It is true... any decent team can easily shutdown a sorc/sage. Them, along with powertech/vanguard are the easiest to shut down.
VicVega