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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
10.31.2012 , 11:03 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
"Escapes" don't seem to gel with the whole heavy armor bounty hunter/commando lore. I don't want to be stealth. Besides the fact that "escaping" wont help my team accomplish objectives any better even if it does save my life for the time being. Let me also point out that "escaping will hurt dps on an already sub-par class. Look at snipers for guidance (ranged dps class just like us). They have much better defensive abilities that also make them immune to interrupts AND being jumped to by mele.

I'm sorry Allison, but Merc/Commando's problem isn't just "when multiple mele attack". We are also the weakest 1v1 class in the game by a long shot. I really think you need to explain to Austin that an escape ability is not bring to bring us back in line. The whole AC needs an overhaul. As many have said before "there is no reason to bring a Mercenary on a ranked PVP team". This is very upsetting considering the time spend grinding 100 valor and gear.

Problem#1) All our dps is tied around Tracer Missile/Grav Round which is too susceptible to interrupts. We can be easily shut down by many classes without being able to do the same to any other classes.

Problem#3) Burst DPS. It's mediocre. This really hurts our survivability as well. Making Heatseeker Missile a little stronger and having it auto-crit when specced into it like so many other DPS abilities would go very far in helping us.
While I'm not entirely enthusiastic about the developer response here, posts like this are why they don't frequent the pvp forum. Merc DPS, while alive, is great. Lamenting a pve spec's performance in pvp is weird. Making mercs inexplicably immune to leap screws up 10 seperate ACs. And adding burst to a pve spec's damage will make them over-effective in operations.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
10.31.2012 , 11:13 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
While I'm not entirely enthusiastic about the developer response here, posts like this are why they don't frequent the pvp forum. Merc DPS, while alive, is great. Lamenting a pve spec's performance in pvp is weird. Making mercs inexplicably immune to leap screws up 10 seperate ACs. And adding burst to a pve spec's damage will make them over-effective in operations.
What you're basically saying is "don't play Gunnery/Arsenal in PvP". Which is stupid. Every spec should have something to offer in PvP as the tree's description says "Damage", not "PvE". Watchman is probably the best DPS spec in PvE - it's also very, very effective in PvP. Certainly a lot more so than Gunnery. Snipers/Gunslingers also have three perfectly viable trees. Rage/Focus got buffed to make it better in PvE so now it's equally good in PvE and PvP as well.

I agree, however, that Gunnery/Arsenal doesn't need extra burst or leap immunity. A brief immunity to interrupts, for example, wouldn't affect PvE at all, neither would more escape abilities (which fit perfectly with the lore, btw: a Mercenary fights for money but his own life is more important than that; a Commando is an elite soldier who must be able to evaluate the situtation and know when to retreat).

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
10.31.2012 , 11:28 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Karsk View Post
Dear Austin Peckenpaugh. If you ever actually played the AC in PvP,
(something you clearly have not)
You would know the issue is not just against multiple enemies but a singel "mele" enemy that can shut
down the DPS on this class to easy.ALSO DPS wise gunnery/arsenal is far weaker because of this.
Having a escape is fine but a gunnery commando cant kill enyone with hammershot alone,because a mele/powerteck etc will be on you in a second anyways.
Dear Karsk,

If you have ever worked for Bioware developing PVP content and making adjustments to classes and game mechanics, (something you clearly have not), you would know that Bioware is obviously aware of the issue and is working on addressing it.

The real problem is that Gunnery/Arsenal is a stationary turret spec that needs to be totally revamped for mobility. A viable solution would make Tracer Missle and Grav Round non-channeled and do less damage, but a bigger burst buff to Railshot and their endcap ability. That way they get more burst and keep the same overall damage, while becoming mobile.

The idea is to make these guys mobile instead of stationary. 4m/10m players still have to work on sticking like glue while Gunnery/Arsenal becomes a run'n'gun style of Pyro, without the dots.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
10.31.2012 , 11:42 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
What you're basically saying is "don't play Gunnery/Arsenal in PvP". Which is stupid. Every spec should have something to offer in PvP as the tree's description says "Damage", not "PvE". Watchman is probably the best DPS spec in PvE - it's also very, very effective in PvP. Certainly a lot more so than Gunnery. Snipers/Gunslingers also have three perfectly viable trees. Rage/Focus got buffed to make it better in PvE so now it's equally good in PvE and PvP as well.

I agree, however, that Gunnery/Arsenal doesn't need extra burst or leap immunity. A brief immunity to interrupts, for example, wouldn't affect PvE at all, neither would more escape abilities (which fit perfectly with the lore, btw: a Mercenary fights for money but his own life is more important than that; a Commando is an elite soldier who must be able to evaluate the situtation and know when to retreat).
Rage is out of balance and hopefully not the barometer by which other classes' effectiveness should be judged, and engineering is terrible period.

Apart from marauders, just about every class has a spec that isn't effective in pvp. For sorc, it's lightning. For assassins, I'd argue madness is pretty weak. Tactics Van is immoble and would require a server client synch that's just not present to be effective in pvp, so everybody goes pyro. Vigilance wasn't great to begin with and just got nerfed. Lethality ops are far inferior to their sniper cousins. And engineering snipers offer little in either pvp or pve.

Arsenal mercs are more ineffective than some of these (madness assassin/lethality ops/ vig knights). But all these ACs suck in pvp to an extent compared to other ACs of the same class. That arsenal's 1% worse to take into a warzone than a lightning sorc is far less of an issue than that the spec that is "good" in pvp is the worst such dps spec of any AC by a mile.

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.31.2012 , 11:47 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I think it's fair to say that Mercenaries and Commandos have escape issues....We have plans for the future that should give Mercenaries and Commandos better escapes in PvP.
It took them a year to address the glaring problem with Merc/Commando, but I guess better late than never? I'm not encouraged when I read "plans for the future", which means changes will be coming Soon(tm).

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.31.2012 , 11:53 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
It took them a year to address the glaring problem with Merc/Commando, but I guess better late than never? I'm not encouraged when I read "plans for the future", which means changes will be coming Soon(tm).
I will imagine with the new warzone coming out in 1.6 that you will see more class changes and balance. I never play my bh as I leveled him just to get the class buff so I could care one way or the other I just don't want to see hordes of tracer missile spammers ever again.

Philastra's Avatar


Philastra
10.31.2012 , 11:54 AM | #47
Escape issues? so what are merc arsenals supposed to run away the whole game? This is goona sound like i'm stroking my own ego but her eit is . I belive i'ma good Merc Arsenal , damage in wz's ranges from 300 to 500k most matches with that said if i pull 500k I guarantee you theres other AC's that pull upwards of 600 to 800k on to a mill ...why is that?
1. Aoe that can hit multiple targets for 6 to 8k is def one,(which you guys nerfed tarcer for this very thing on single targets and gave it to another class as an AOE?)
2.Mobility of the class is a huge issue. We can be interupted very easily.(esp Tracer which arsenal is based around)
3.The other is survivability albeit it may be an escape issue as you so put but IMO its the survivabilty of the class, hugging corners wont get you outta roots/stuns/pulls for a heavy armor class we should have more survability not the ability to run away.
But I guess I'll just have to see what you guys have planned.
Good to know you are at least looking into this but for cryn out loud we dont nerfed again so I can hug corners better.
It only takes one candle to scare away the dark, or just hire a Bounty Hunter....

klham's Avatar


klham
10.31.2012 , 12:16 PM | #48
Glad to see the commando/merc PvP issue has been acknowledged. I'm looking forward to the changes. The commando AC is still my favorite despite its underdog status in PvP. I enjoy playing it (which is why I have 2 commandos, and will be starting my first merc soon in order to experience the BH storyline). I learned a lot about the AC from reading these threads, and ppl contributed some great ideas imo (and some great counter-arguments too). Kudos all around for helping to get this issue on the radar. Stay positive.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
10.31.2012 , 12:21 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
Rage is out of balance and hopefully not the barometer by which other classes' effectiveness should be judged
You know who I'll need to hear that from before I believe it? Bioware. Right now Rage IS the defacto standard for DPS in PvP.

Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Hi everyone! I talked to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Commandos and Mercenaries and their situation in PvP right now, and he had this to say:

I think it's fair to say that Mercenaries and Commandos have escape issues. Admittedly, they can be very hard to catch when used correctly to hug corners, but a lot of that "escapability" falls aside when attacked by multiple melee enemies, at which point they just aren't quite tough enough to sustain without further escapes. We have plans for the future that should give Mercenaries and Commandos better escapes in PvP.
Heh. There's a 60+ page thread on this very forum pertaining to the problems with mercs and commandos (as well as multiple threads on both AC forums). I suggest Austin have a lackey read it for him, if he's unwilling to himself.

'Escape issues'. Hah. 'When used correctly to hug corners'. Hah. 'Plans for the future'. Hahah. We're pretty much the official target-dummies of SWTOR at this point, aren't we.

Whelp, thanks for posting.
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
10.31.2012 , 12:35 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
While I'm not entirely enthusiastic about the developer response here, posts like this are why they don't frequent the pvp forum. Merc DPS, while alive, is great. Lamenting a pve spec's performance in pvp is weird. Making mercs inexplicably immune to leap screws up 10 seperate ACs. And adding burst to a pve spec's damage will make them over-effective in operations.
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
What you're basically saying is "don't play Gunnery/Arsenal in PvP". Which is stupid. Every spec should have something to offer in PvP as the tree's description says "Damage", not "PvE". Watchman is probably the best DPS spec in PvE - it's also very, very effective in PvP. Certainly a lot more so than Gunnery. Snipers/Gunslingers also have three perfectly viable trees. Rage/Focus got buffed to make it better in PvE so now it's equally good in PvE and PvP as well.

I agree, however, that Gunnery/Arsenal doesn't need extra burst or leap immunity. A brief immunity to interrupts, for example, wouldn't affect PvE at all, neither would more escape abilities (which fit perfectly with the lore, btw: a Mercenary fights for money but his own life is more important than that; a Commando is an elite soldier who must be able to evaluate the situtation and know when to retreat).
What on earth is wrong with you guys? Do you even play PVP? How can you say it would screw over 10 other classes if we were immune to interrupts? Hello snipers? Have you ever heard of the mechanic called cover? How about Entrench? Are you completely ignorant to any other class but your own?

I hate to break it to you but our burst dps is NOT good. It's pretty bad actually. And I'm 95 valor and have been BIS for months so I'm pretty sure I know what I am talking about. Assasin, MArauder, PT, Operative - every single one has significantly better burst dps, and if you don't think burst dps is important in a PVP environment you just are not a very good PVPer at all.