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Antiquated MMO Social Organization

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Antiquated MMO Social Organization

psandak's Avatar

10.24.2012 , 11:29 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Tim-ONeil View Post
That's very true so cross server LFG wouldn't necessarily help anything for these players. In fact on our now consolidated servers the people complain because they used to be one of a bunch of DPS on their server and now they are one in a ton of DPS on their server.

Since a game will never be able to force you into a play style if you really want to maximize the grouping mechanic tanks and healers are the most in demand. Depending on the server you'll see which is needed more and you might even play a character like that for more consistent pops.

This is the only real drawback I see to the 4 man group structure. In the 5 man group balanced game you are taking an extra DPS out of the potential pool.

There are ways around this though. Make friends and set up your own groups would be the first one I can think of.
While you cannot force players into roles they may not like, you can encourage them to at least try. Blizzard did this in WoW by creating a system of rewarding players to queue in under-represented roles. The rewards were limited but the chance (no matter how minute) to get that cool mount or vanity pet, balanced the queue times: prior to this system DPS queue times were upwards of an hour (on average during peak times) even with cross-server grouping, with the reward system in place DPS queue times dropped to 20 minutes (on average during peak times). The funny part is that even after a 66% decrease in average queue time for DPS players still complained

Yes, initially there were a lot of "bad" tanks and healers. But that did not last nearly as long as some claimed it would or as long as some claim it did.

Further, in all candor SWTOR is a LOT easier than WOW. I have done a number of HM (tier 1) FPs with only three - two DPS and me as healer. You have to be a little more careful about CC and not pulling too much, and you do wipe a little more, but it can be done. My point is that even with the potential for "bad" healers and tanks, groups can muddle through with a little patience and attention to detail.

Tim-ONeil's Avatar

10.24.2012 , 11:41 AM | #22
In 1.5 you'll be able to respec for free as a subscriber making a dual spec a reality and giving extra incentive for the field respec droid.

This should help if you want to be proactive and change your role to get into groups faster. The only thing you can control in an MMO is what you do yourself.
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Urael's Avatar

10.24.2012 , 11:41 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Pcolapat View Post
Pretty close. The the players who select OWPVP as one of their profile options will only see other players with that option checked. All areas in the game are OWPVP to them. They would still be able to access other players through group finder to do flashpoints and such because they are actually on the same server, just in a different shard. RP players could have similar options as well. Basically I would like to have access to the entire player population for some things and only some of the population for other things.
That is interesting. Perhaps people could "flag" for each mode and only see people in those modes kinda like blizzard phasing. So as you said OWPvP would have the full run of the "realm" but only see people that "opt in". If you flag "RP" then you would only see people who "RP".

Norsalith's Avatar

10.24.2012 , 11:42 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Pcolapat View Post
I purposely remained ambiguous as to not point out how other MMOs are doing things. I didn't want to come off as a fanboy of some other game. What inspired me to post this was the reading about some other game that is currently in development. I thought their ideas were interesting.
Praising a game's good points is not necessarily being a 'fanboy' of the game. And would be rather key to let those of us know what you actually think would work.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pcolapat View Post
Also, I think it kind of strange that MMOs are still setting their servers up the way they are when time and time again the same issues pop up. I would have thought with such competition and advances in technology that newer games would have innovated and changed by now. I have seen some moving away from the old standard PVE,PVP, RP servers and integrating them into one server that is phased and allows for more grouping and social options for players.
The problem that comes up, again and again, is the fault of the players and not the game mechanics itself. A lot of players like the lack of responsibility that comes with DPSing, and so MMO games will ALWAYS have a surplus of them. They have a need to be 'top' of the chart, something you rarely do when you are tanking or healing. To be honest, I'd like to see classic UO come back... but the type of person that plays MMOs today make it impossible.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pcolapat View Post
I am not really offering an alternative, but I feel that too many MMOs have stuck with the same thing for too long and create the same social problems over and over again. I would like for swtor to try something else.
Trying new things can (and has) been the downfall of MMOs in the past. The only way to remove this issue with LFG ques is to remove roles all together. But this does not necessarily work well. Think GW2, running the instance with a group of thieves is possible but slow and sometimes very painful. There will be a few 'elite' players who can still do it quickly without a problem, but as a whole the "No Role" concept simply does not work out flawlessly in this game. (Don't mistake this for bashing GW2, I think it is an enjoyable game.)

A lot of the big MMO gaming companies do keep an eye on new projects. Elder Scrolls Online, for example, promises a no class type of game play. But the question remains if it will require you to fill a certain roll if instances/group zones exist. If there are no roles to 'fill' the next question is 'how well does it work'. If a company were to stumble upon the solution, I can almost promise that other MMOs would adopt the solution in some way as quickly as possible. (Mimicry is the greatest form of flattery after all).

But instead of removing roles, why not simply 'opt' a larger group (slightly harder instance) and allow more DPS into said group? For example if we have 2 tanks and 2 healers in que, but 9 dps, you will have 5 people sitting out until the next tank and healer que up. But if the system were to place 4 dps in the group (making it a group of 6) you would only have 1 dps sitting out. The problem would be coding such a system. The problem would be adjusting current flashpoints. The problem would be balancing loot to compensate for more players. (Same amount of loot but more players never ends well.)

Quite honestly my solution is this; Get more people to play as tanks/healers and que up.
3/1/2015 - Reinstalled SW:TOR

Urael's Avatar

10.24.2012 , 11:43 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Tim-ONeil View Post
In 1.5 you'll be able to respec for free as a subscriber making a dual spec a reality and giving extra incentive for the field respec droid.

This should help if you want to be proactive and change your role to get into groups faster. The only thing you can control in an MMO is what you do yourself.
If they ADDED an option to the interface editor to "save button configurations" this would be a "work around for" or "way to implement" dual spec and incentivize people to buy the field respec as you said, rather than have to go back to the fleet.

CosmicKat's Avatar

10.24.2012 , 12:48 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Pcolapat View Post
One thing that really frustrates me about this game is waiting around to do whatever it is I want to do. I am sure this is true for just about everyone. I have been doing a bit of reading about how other MMOs do things and how they address player interaction. Frankly, this frustration is not unique with SWTOR. I have experienced the same frustrations in other MMOs that shared a similar ssocial organization as this one. My point is this. The way the servers are set up in this game is the old way of doing things. When I first started playing MMOs, almost a decade ago, the same organization of servers was being used. Newer MMOs should be trying to do new things when it comes to social organization and many of them are, but SWTOR has not embraced this change. I feel that moving forward, Bioware really needs to take a serious look at how the social structure of this game is organized. It should appear that we are all playing on the same server but with ways to personalize your experience within that one server.

I logged off tonight while waiting in a queue. A player should be able to log in and do what they want to do and not stand around waiting on a queue to pop. There are just too many other alternatives for people to entertain themselves online for this game to have players waiting around in queues. It is a problem.
I think you should have been around back in the "antiquated" days when there were NO fancy tools to find groups.

What they did have were reasons to group. Without those, all the fancy tools won't make a speck of difference. Any game that makes it possible, even preferred to solo from 1-50 has a major problem at its core that must be undone or it will forever remain a solo game.

simplius's Avatar

10.24.2012 , 01:27 PM | #27
i beg to differ,,wows success grounded in two things: TONS of faceroll solo content, packed in

a big, fluffy world,,,the easiness of the gameplay enhanced the immersion, because u could

basically spam a couple of buttons,,this game would benefit a lot from the same