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Some Questions About Kreia

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Some Questions About Kreia

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.23.2012 , 12:56 PM | #1
I've being thinking about Kreia AKA Darth Traya recently (as you do) and some questions have sprung to mind. I'm hoping this thread to be a general discussion about any questions you have, including these ones, about Kreia because she is a very mysterious and complex character.

1. What did Kreia want with the Exile?
I understand that Kreia saw the Exile as proof of her beliefs, that you can exist without the Force, and so she became naturally intrigued and wanted to understand her. I also understand she wanted to use her as a tool to prove others wrong, sort of "Hey look what I found, guess I was right!". But what else, surely there must be something more? And why did Kreia return to Malachor V after 'proving' the Council wrong? Wookiepedia says she planned on sacrificing herself to create a bigger wound in the Force which would effectively kill it. But when you confront her, she says nothing of this and does not seem to make an attempt. It seems instead like some sort of final test for the Exile, to prove her power, but even that leaves more open questions...

2. Why does Kreia 'love' the Emperor?
OK, this is assuming that Kreia is 'the Entity' that the SW encounters on Coreilla (i'll leave it at that to avoid spoilers). But I think we can all agree this is the case, their is no one else it could be and Filoni (i think it was him) said it was meant to be Kreia. But that leaves the question, why does she say the Emperor is her love? She wanted the death of the Force so that people could be free from its control.
Spoiler
the Emperors plans conflict with hers because she in fact, despite being Sith at one point, dislikes killing and death. So why would she love him? (Assuming this is a conceptual love, like her love of Meetra. She doesn't love Meetra cause she's pretty, but because of what she represents)

3. What was Kreia doing after she was exiled?
Before she discovered Malachor V? Kreia was exiled at the start of the Mandalorian Wars or some time during it because the Council dissaproved of her teachings. This was around 3,976 BBY. She didn't discover the Trayus Academy until around 3,955 BBY, after the collapse of the Revan/Malak Sith Empire. That's a total of 21 years, so what was she doing? We can't really give a proper answer to this question, but what do you think?

EDIT: One final question I forgot...
4. Is Kreia actually Arren Kae?
Mainly from what Mical says about Arren Kae, who was a female Jedi Master who trained Revan and was exiled from the order for doing so. She was also the mother of Brianna, although Brianna had never seen her face. She fought in the Mandalorian Wars and was presumed dead, but her body was never found. What Mical says about her and what Kreia says about herself seem to correspond strongly. Mical says she was Revan's first and last Master, and Revan returned to her to seek how to leave the order. Which is exactly what Kreia says about herself. There are other small clues in conversations, if you want to seem them look at this Youtube Video. I think one of the most powerful ones is what Atris says, "Kreia! That is not her name!"

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.23.2012 , 03:44 PM | #2
you do bring up some excellent questions about Kreia.

But why about the Exile? Because Kreia even stated, 'once you start down the path of knowledge and wish to know more, nothing can ever satiate that need for knowledge". Wasn't exactly what she said but you get the meaning. She wanted more and more knowledge and even turned to the sith to find it. what she found and why she wanted the death of the force, cause she was sick of the force having a will and forcing[forgive the pun] down a path it determines.

She wanted to be free of it.

As far as Kreia being Arren Krae, that is entirely possible. I can't say yay or nay on that one.
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.23.2012 , 04:08 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
you do bring up some excellent questions about Kreia.

But why about the Exile? Because Kreia even stated, 'once you start down the path of knowledge and wish to know more, nothing can ever satiate that need for knowledge". Wasn't exactly what she said but you get the meaning. She wanted more and more knowledge and even turned to the sith to find it. what she found and why she wanted the death of the force, cause she was sick of the force having a will and forcing[forgive the pun] down a path it determines.

She wanted to be free of it.

As far as Kreia being Arren Krae, that is entirely possible. I can't say yay or nay on that one.
Hmmm, I hunger for knowledge is definitely a reason. She seems to have a need to justify her beliefs. But this still doesn't explain the events of Malachor V... I also get the idea she wanted the Exile to 'understand' as well, to understand what she actually is. Hence why if you follow the darkside path, she says you have failed her.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.23.2012 , 06:03 PM | #4
Problem with KOTORII it wasn't totally finished. I think, and i could be wrong and I think Auebre would know a tad better, is that Kreia wanted a weapon against the force, and if you go dark side, the reason you failed, you turned into the very thing she didn't want, a beast. For lack of a better idea, she wanted somebody grey who she could get to cause the death of the force.

What she didn't realize killing the force, would kill everything since all things are connected.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
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OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
10.24.2012 , 07:22 PM | #5
1- No that's it. Kriea saw the Exile as proof of her inane theory about the Force and killing Kreia was somehow the Exile's final test. I believe she also wanted the Exile to spread those teachings about the Force.

2- Having now played through the Sith Warrior Storyline on Corellia, I find it bizarre that everyone seems to think that the Entity is Kreia. She neither looks nor sounds nor acts like Traya and appears to have no connection to Malachor V. Vowron also describes her as "ancient" and "as old as the force itself" not "the spirit of a 300 year old Sith Lord."

3 - I thought Kriea fell to the darkside after discovering Trayus Academy? And that it happened during the Jedi Civil War, or possibly before.

4- I personally felt that question was too ambiguous say for certain during the game and so is still too ambiguous since. Perhaps if the game had been completed we would ave had a clearer answer to whether that was the case.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.25.2012 , 03:44 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
1- No that's it. Kriea saw the Exile as proof of her inane theory about the Force and killing Kreia was somehow the Exile's final test. I believe she also wanted the Exile to spread those teachings about the Force.
I suppose so, still not sure about the whole attempting to sacrifice herself business, thats what it said on Wookiepedia. I didn't realise KOTOR 2 was that unfinished though
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2- Having now played through the Sith Warrior Storyline on Corellia, I find it bizarre that everyone seems to think that the Entity is Kreia. She neither looks nor sounds nor acts like Traya and appears to have no connection to Malachor V. Vowron also describes her as "ancient" and "as old as the force itself" not "the spirit of a 300 year old Sith Lord."
True, the link does seem tenuous. But I fear that it is, yes it doesn't look anything like her, apart from the hair colour, age and neck collar, but to be honest BioWare have been rather lazy with a lot of their characters. I don't want to go off on one, but you'll notice that a lot of important characters in SWTOR look like they just been hastily put together in character creation, I fear this is one of them. She's certainly cryptic, so in that way she is like Kreia. But the main point is that no other female sith lord recorded has ever nearly brought the jedi to there knees, only Kreia has. Whatsmore that guy from BioWare (he didn't write it though so he's not 100% sure) thinks it was meant to be Kreia. If it is though, I fear much retconning is on its way .
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3 - I thought Kriea fell to the darkside after discovering Trayus Academy? And that it happened during the Jedi Civil War, or possibly before.
Yes, when she found Malachor, she fell to the dark side. But Malachor V was first discovered by Revan during the Mandalorian Wars, and remained in his possession - so she couldn't have come to it then. It remained in his possession, and then Malak's throughout the Jedi Civil War, as an academy for assassins. So she couldn't have found it then. The only time, and the game seems to be making this clear, that she could have discovered it was shortly after Malak's death, when it had no leader, and the assassins remaining would therefore embrace Kreia as their new leader as they did. So that leaves a 21 year gap of her meditating... seems unlikely (also lends itself to the fact she was Arren Kae, spent some of those years fighting in the Mandalorian Wars)

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.25.2012 , 09:26 AM | #7
But i think i recall during the mandalorian wars Kreia did say she DIDN'T go to war, but spent her time as the jedi librarian before she left when it concluded.

I could be wrong. But i don't think kreia actually fought in the Mandalorian wars.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy
Finished: Trooper, Agent, Knight, Inquizitor

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
10.25.2012 , 12:42 PM | #8
I believe Atriss says on Telos before you travel to Malachor to confront Kreia that if you don't she plans to sacrifice herself on Malachor which will somehow create more deafening echos in the force that will kill all life in the galaxy. I think when you get there she says that was another deception to get you to follow her, although I don't remember for sure if that was in the game. I just remember thinking from somewhere that it was another of her lies.

I suppose it is possible that Bioware retconed everything about Kriea to make that into her. They've only reused a handful of voice actors from both previous kotors. They've already retconed a lot about not only Obsidian's game but even their own game. Even so I would have thought that line about "waiting for my life, your emperor" would have pretty conclusively proved it wasn't her. In Kotor 2, Kreia clearly seemed to have never met him or ever been to the Sith Empire. Also, if Malachor V was destroyed like the "canon" lightside kotor 2 ending, what resting place would Baras have defiled to force her into servitude?

It's possible Kriea found Malachor V because she was Arrena Kae,. It could also a plot hole.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.25.2012 , 12:49 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
But i think i recall during the mandalorian wars Kreia did say she DIDN'T go to war, but spent her time as the jedi librarian before she left when it concluded.

I could be wrong. But i don't think kreia actually fought in the Mandalorian wars.
Here's my theory. Arren Kae (AKA Kreia) gets exiled from the Order and leaves to join the Revanites. She is not present on Malachor because she disagree's with such loss of life, after Malachor Revan leaves for the unknown regions and returns a sith lord. Kae is confused and attempts to find out what happened to him which leads her to Malachor where she becomes Darth Traya. After being betrayed by her apprentices she seeks out the Exile, but realises she will be recognized by others and a former Sith Lord. She therefore alters her appearance and goes under the guise of 'Kreia' to avoid detection.

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
10.25.2012 , 01:08 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post

2- Having now played through the Sith Warrior Storyline on Corellia, I find it bizarre that everyone seems to think that the Entity is Kreia. She neither looks nor sounds nor acts like Traya and appears to have no connection to Malachor V. Vowron also describes her as "ancient" and "as old as the force itself" not "the spirit of a 300 year old Sith Lord."
it's also said the Entity tried to wipe out millions through the Force around 300 years ago. As for the Entity not sounding like Kreia,easy they couldn't use the original voice actor for whatever reason. Not looking like her, well it has been 300 years, people do like to change their looks from time to time and perhaps being "killed" and then becoming the Entity has altered her appearance. Vowrawn could have been using hyperbole for all we know.


I can easily see how people can connect the Entity to Kreia given their proclivity for Force visions, the timeline for when Kreia and the Entity tried their hand at taking down the Force. Tenuous connections, but i can still see it.
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.