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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
10.17.2012 , 07:06 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Veniras View Post
We know. As the issue has not been adressed by BW the only option you can do as a paying customer is to vote with your wallet
Pretty much this

People (myself included) have given EA a ton of feedback on the Pre Mades in WH augmented gear greifing the nonranked wzs and they have decided to ignore the issue!

The only message that can be sent now is by cancelling when you simply cant take it anymore!

I do want to clear something up thats a misstatement in this thread.

The under geared PUG players are not the BAD in this senario, they are entering WZs knowing they mostly likely short on gear to some extent but still try to rise to challenge

The BAD PLAYERS are the pre mades in WH Augmented gear rolling the unranked.
After all, if they were half as good as they claim and 1/1000000 as good as they act like they are, they would be in Ranked Warzones and never step foot again in a unranked warzone because there is no challenge to being there.

Sorry the GOOD Players are in Ranked when geared enough
Its the BADs that require every single advantage they can summon so they dont get spanked by the unranked PUGs.

Real people rise to a challenge
Cowards hide from the challenge and try to bully those weaker (call it what it is).

I have absolutely no respect for any of the pre mades (that are geared up) that troll the unranked.
None at all.
Be it imp pre made or Rep premade

Far as Im concerned,
THEY are the BADs
Because their to cowardly to enter ranked consistantly

(PS: spare me the excuse of ranked not popping. Seems tome if all the pre mades qued ranked, rather then unranked, it would pop alot faster.)

Still say this issue (and EAs completely diregard to issue) is one of the main reasons the F2P will ultimately fail.

Who wants to buy a sub after learning some BADs with every possible advantage will be farming them till they can gear up themselves.

Far more likely they say after being rolled constant "Screw this, Im not spending money to feed some kids over inflated ego online" as they leave, never to return.
In regards to lessening F2P and Preferred restrictions
In GAMING, as in LIFE,
You get what you pay for
No game restriction is so dire that $15.00/month will not eliminate it

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
10.17.2012 , 07:35 AM | #42
Here are some personal statistics over the past 3 days from solo pvp'ing on the Republic side of the Progenitor server. I used Recruit gear only at the start to see the incentive a new player will have. To see if he will keep playing pvp:

Played 38 matches over the course of 3 days:

Won: 4. Lost: 34.
Number of times queued against a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 23
Number of times queued with a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 2
Number of times lost against the Republic: 0
Number of times lost against the Empire: 34
Number of times won against the Republic: 4
Number of times won against the Empire: 0
Number of times grouped without a healer: 17
Number of times faced an enemy group without a healer: 1
Number of times faced an exceptional enemy group (4 or more players with War Hero title or above): 10
Number of times queued with an exceptional group (4 or more players with War Hero or above): 1
Number of times queued with an inadequate group (4 or more players in Recruit): 10
Number of deaths: stopped counting.

As you can see from this limited survery, queuing solo meant losing the overwhelming majority of the games (a ratio of 4-34), almost all of them against the Empire. I've been in 4 true PuGvsPuG matches and incidentally every single one of them was Rep vs Rep we won.

23 times ouf of 38 (all in Rep vs Imp) we faced three or more players from the same guild. On my team this happened twice but we lost those matches as well due to the fact that:

10 times out of 38 we had 4 or more people (!!!) in Recruit gear (myself included of course), whereas 10 out of 38 times we faced enemy groups where 4 or more people were sporting War Hero, Conqueror, Warlord etc. titles.

This was further compounded by the fact that 17 (!) out of 38 times our team did not have a healer. Only once was I in a match where I could not find an enemy healer to mark.

I did not exactly count how many times our group was utterly annihilated (0-6 huttball, 100-0% novare etc.) but there were a lot of instances where we could not hold a single node in Civil War. Coordination was ok, we always discussed tactics, 9 out of 10 times people called out inc but the general lack of healers AND the overall gear advantage enjoyed by the enemies AND the fact that 23 matches had 3 or 4 people from the same guild made sure that no amount of coordination would make a difference.

Look at the numbers and tell me why a new lvl50 would bother to play pvp again after this?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Facing premades more than half the time (23/38) was part of the reason we kept losing but not the only part. The drastic lack of healers wasn't helping either. And the fact that in almost every 3rd match or so we had 4 people in Recruit.

I haven't tried pvp as an Imperial yet. I'm curious to do some statistics when I hit 50 to see if it's easier to level up somewhat as an Imperial.

I've seen many opinions by many people (some say it's fine, the majority call for changes) but I think there is something very wrong with pvp if solo queuing means autoloss.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
10.17.2012 , 07:56 AM | #43
Keeva that looks like a faction imbalance issue on your server, not a premade problem.

Good stats though.
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

Ybini's Avatar


Ybini
10.17.2012 , 07:58 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Last night I had a premade in my group. They were 14k, 14k, 16k hp. Yeah, we lost that one.

Premades aren't the problem. Fully geared and optimized premades with perfect composition and excellent coordination are the problem (see the 9 layer of pvp hell post...).

It's really a tough situation. On the one hand, you can't blame them for being good players and grouping smart. You can't blame them for queuing regular matches IF the ranked queue isn't popping. (Now, if there is a decent rated queue and they are still in regular WZs, that's another matter...)

On the other hand, being in a standard pug against a team like that isn't going to go well. It doesn't matter how decent the players are, if they care about objectives. They will get destroyed by the premade that has their sh*t together. If I see a match like that, I honestly will go farm medals, because I don't feel like giving the other team the satisfaction of beating me to a pulp and thinking they are awesome. Their punishment for queuing a match like that should be to sit on their asses the whole match. If they press our node where we are farming, I'll quit.
I think the assumption is that most premades are 8 man geared ops full of augmented war hero geared players that have voice chat and the experience of playing together in many matches. Usually these guys are playing in the unranked queue because the ranked isn't popping. Its probably fair to quit, if they're ruining your fun its best to leave than to get angry. I usually stick it out to get my daily done. Getting the weekly done can be frustrating though. When I get frustrated I'll queue for PVE and do a flashpoint or something to pass time and try again later. This leads to the problem you'll see where people complain that pvp queues aren't popping at all. No one wants to solo queue for their weekly against a ranked queueing op team. Even earthworms learn from negative feedback.

The best possible fix for this is ranked queue being cross-server.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
10.17.2012 , 08:09 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Keeva that looks like a faction imbalance issue on your server, not a premade problem.

Good stats though.
Sure I didn't say the problem was limited to premades only but 23/38 vs 2/38 does give you something to think about. At any rate, whatever the problem is, I don't think the new guy will care and will just leave, compounding the PvP problem even further.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

Ashaari's Avatar


Ashaari
10.17.2012 , 08:46 AM | #46
Actually I would say that The Progenator is about evenly balanced in terms of player numbers on the Fleet.

The issue is that there are a few Imp guilds/pre-mades that play most of prime time, every day, as Pre-mades and there are very few imp pugs, whereas the Pub players are more frequently pugs or part pugs. I rarely play Imp on The Progenator as the queue time is often excessively long when queued solo.

Servers like Red Eclipse have much more of an inbalance issue in my experience being mainly Republic both in terms of numbers and WZ domination.

The issues relate to the games mechanics and not so much to faction balances, as even with a faction inbalance you will still play against teams from your own faction.

PS: Good work Keeva, interesting information whether people consider it relevent or not.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.17.2012 , 08:54 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalfear View Post
Pretty much this

The BAD PLAYERS are the pre mades in WH Augmented gear rolling the unranked.
After all, if they were half as good as they claim and 1/1000000 as good as they act like they are, they would be in Ranked Warzones and never step foot again in a unranked warzone because there is no challenge to being there.

Sorry the GOOD Players are in Ranked when geared enough
Its the BADs that require every single advantage they can summon so they dont get spanked by the unranked PUGs.

Real people rise to a challenge
Cowards hide from the challenge and try to bully those weaker (call it what it is).

I have absolutely no respect for any of the pre mades (that are geared up) that troll the unranked.
None at all.
Be it imp pre made or Rep premade

Far as Im concerned,
THEY are the BADs
Because their to cowardly to enter ranked consistantly

(PS: spare me the excuse of ranked not popping. Seems tome if all the pre mades qued ranked, rather then unranked, it would pop alot faster.)

Still say this issue (and EAs completely diregard to issue) is one of the main reasons the F2P will ultimately fail.

Who wants to buy a sub after learning some BADs with every possible advantage will be farming them till they can gear up themselves.

Far more likely they say after being rolled constant "Screw this, Im not spending money to feed some kids over inflated ego online" as they leave, never to return.
So what I take from this is I am a terrible player and a coward because we can never get our pvpers online at a time to run what little ranked queues that are going on (they do happen you just need to coordinated with other teams to see they are running). When ranks do happen you face the same team over and over again and that gets old fast. Also ranked warzones can be as bad in terms of imbalance as non ranked, what do you think happens when someone is starting a pug group and saying "anyone can join gear and class does not mattar", well what usually happens is the pug faces a stomping but hey at least its ranked.

You make it sound like the players who are not running ranked (most want to not all of them can) enjoy stomping the crap out of players in recruit gear, which I don't. I love a good close matchup, the warzones that come down to the wire 1-2 or 5-6 huttballs, 10%-0% NC, 20 point wins in CW, VS where no one gets the doors or it becomes a race to see who got what down faster.

I cannot deny that there are players who enjoy beating on recruit gear players but don't label all WH geared players in one group...that's being narrow minded and makes you look like an idiot.

This threads title is all about premades but for some reason a lot of it comes back to a gear thing. Is there a gap in gear...yes, but unless you have never PvPed you should not be hitting 50 and go "oh I have never done a warzone before but I really want give it a shot ill buy some recruit gear and have some fun". With an exception to you not having any player interaction at all over the course of your leveling you should have some concept of gear and what that means at any endgame type activities whether that be PvE or PvP.

You should be ready with comms so you can get some WH and BM right away fill the gap with recruit, maybe do some operations or HM flashpoints to boos your HP and stats.

This is an MMO, Its almost like they want you to meet people and enjoy the game with you. There is a solo aspect to this game but how can you blame someone for wanted to group up with a guild or friends to take part in PvP. I know I am just blowing smoke but these type of posts make my head scratch. There is nothing stopping anyone from joining a guild or grouping with friends.

They should just give everyone a set of WH when they hit 50 and be done with it...when this happens I will be waiting on pins and needles as to what will be the next big complaint.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
10.17.2012 , 08:59 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
So what I take from this is I am a terrible player and a coward...

I cannot deny that there are players who enjoy beating on recruit gear players
I take it you figured it out all by yourself?
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Ashaari's Avatar


Ashaari
10.17.2012 , 09:16 AM | #49
There are few ranked WZ,s because there are few pre-mades who want to play it.

So why do BW cater for the few at the expense of the much larger majority who dont want to fight as or against pre-mades? And why do BW do this when knowingly losing subs because of exactly this issue?

Any logical theories for this - I can only come up with stupidity and lack of understanding of the game they produce.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.17.2012 , 09:28 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
I take it you figured it out all by yourself?
Yeah you got me dead to rights I guess...