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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
07.14.2013 , 12:28 PM | #4881
Quote: Originally Posted by weyby View Post
almost every one knows the , that becomes basic knowledge at a point. I don't need to think much to do good in a wz as much a I need to think in an RTS match. and you ask now "why not?" and I'll answer, Couse I need to keep in mind my tactics an read yours at every given point of the match + I need to know where you have your army or what's left of it
You actually need to do that in WZs as well. Granted, a WZ will not be dealing with the over all numbers that a RTS game will but everything I put into bold is just as important in a WZ.

In some cases, maybe even more so.

weyby's Avatar


weyby
07.14.2013 , 12:29 PM | #4882
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
So what would you have done if there had been 4 members of your team against 1 of theirs?

Not target the only enemy within range and burn them down?
are ppl normally going 4 to delay a cap unless its a premade? and to prevent a cap you normally just sent a stealthier, not 50% of them team, you are if you are behind in AHG but its the start of the match, no one with the right mind unless again its a premade dares to sent 4 ppl to prevent a cap couse in a normal wz you are sending 2 tops due to you need to get orbs fast to your pylon to get a head before the deathmatch in mid starts

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
07.14.2013 , 12:32 PM | #4883
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaerah View Post
The tiny detail of them all having the same (top) guild tag clearly does NOT suggest they are in a premade.

Nor the fact I have said they are doing this (clearly together) since hours.
Not exactly the easiest to see video, but that's also not my point.

Any four players of that skill level could have:

Gone to the same side of the spawn zone.
Realized they all had stealth.
Used stealth.
Killed 1 person in a matter of seconds.

Also... not really relevant to the conversation. We know Premades are often more skilled, geared, and coordinated. We also know even though PuG's can/should at least be as skilled or geared, their not most of the time. They also have a chance of 7 other players they can't control as opposed to 4. The only thing you do by bringing up this topic again is throw fuel on the fire for players to point out how much of that has little to nothing to do with them being grouped before hand, and everything to do with... (wait for it...) you were 4 vs 1.

We already know that Premades tend to have what people describe "advantages" over PuG's (Even if the extent and "fairness" of these advantages is unclear) and that pitting Less competitive/skilled players against More competitive/skilled players just ends up with 4-8 upset players and 4-8 bored players.

You wanna keep stirring the pot or actually talk about something that matters... like matchmaking.
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

weyby's Avatar


weyby
07.14.2013 , 12:34 PM | #4884
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
You actually need to do that in WZs as well. Granted, a WZ will not be dealing with the over all numbers that a RTS game will but everything I put into bold is just as important in a WZ.

In some cases, maybe even more so.
yea at the only point in a wz I need to remember my tacts are in the beginning, and I can fairly easy figure out where the enemy team is in a wz. now in an RTS since the map is greater and I have no clue where your troops is at the most point unless its open warfare. plus you can change your strags and tactics according to mine, or completely change them, then I need to think even more about how to counter you, becosue in a wz its rather easy to counter a strag or tactic, in RTS its not since you have to use the right amount of units to do so, so you don't lose either a flank or your center

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
07.14.2013 , 12:35 PM | #4885
Quote: Originally Posted by weyby View Post
are ppl normally going 4 to delay a cap unless its a premade? and to prevent a cap you normally just sent a stealthier, not 50% of them team, you are if you are behind in AHG but its the start of the match, no one with the right mind unless again its a premade dares to sent 4 ppl to prevent a cap couse in a normal wz you are sending 2 tops due to you need to get orbs fast to your pylon to get a head before the deathmatch in mid starts
Holding both Pylons is a decent strategy no matter which round it is. Secondly, there is no "natural" enemy node in AHG. People always go left for some reason, but it's mostly the sheep mentality, nothing to do with any actual design that makes left your node.

I'm still trying to believe you think 1 person should hold 4 equally skilled people for a minute.
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

Vaerah's Avatar


Vaerah
07.14.2013 , 12:36 PM | #4886
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
So what would you have done if there had been 4 members of your team against 1 of theirs?

Not target the only enemy within range and burn them down?
I see you and others are grandiously missing the point and derailing in all sorts of off topics.

I did not say it's some unfair tactic of theirs or whatever.

I said:

Regular WZ = THE place for PUGs, randoms, undergeared and under-anything people.

- Add top RWZ guild premade queueing for hours, which is the whole topic of this thread.

- Suddenly you get perfectly executed WTFPWN kills like this on me but also EVERYONE of the other players, to the point they even get killed at the spawn point (Alderan Civil War). I with top gear get killed in few instants, now put the typical WZ player: undergeared noob with 25k health and see how long he lasts. All he sees is a short flash => respanw button.

- Suddenly your team 8 players become 4. Again and again, you spend more time loading the maps than playing. Big fun!

- Suddenly you can't kill a single of them and no, PUGs won't coordinate that. Is it PUGs fault? Yes but no, because it's 10 years that PUGs are like that in every MMO, "unranked" battlegrounds are exactly for those (bad) players.
I mean, so many twist what a WZ is: a WZ is the place for mediocre, undergeared randoms, so it's USELESS to point fingers and blame them of not forming pro teams.

- After 4-5 WZs going like this, everyone on my faction logged off, so no more WZs at all. And I only have that time to play.

I have extensively played another MMO with similar disparities, called Warhammer Online. Guess what, the game died (also for many other reasons). With the same ostrich / dumb "pro PvPers" blaming the bads for being bad and forgetting how it's bads who keep MMOs running. Once gone, all that was left were a couple of "pro players", no pops any more and deserted server.

I am not suprised to see the same fatal mistakes being made by BW designers. I am not surprised seeing pretend-blind players being so good at playing blind and not see the game crumbling around them.

If this top RWZ guild premades ROFLstomping is not stopped somehow, the players hemorragy will only worsen.
Right now, once outside of super prime time I have to wait 20-30 mins for a pop (6 vs 5 and similar pops). Let the ROFLstomping continue, maybe we manage to get SWTOR dead by Christmas.

Vaerah's Avatar


Vaerah
07.14.2013 , 12:38 PM | #4887
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
You wanna keep stirring the pot or actually talk about something that matters... like matchmaking.
If you don't stir the pot, you get no attention. Look at how good the devs have been at not giving ANY attention for close to 500 pages. Soft talk only leads to being ignored, forever.

weyby's Avatar


weyby
07.14.2013 , 12:39 PM | #4888
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Holding both Pylons is a decent strategy no matter which round it is. Secondly, there is no "natural" enemy node in AHG. People always go left for some reason, but it's mostly the sheep mentality, nothing to do with any actual design that makes left your node.

I'm still trying to believe you think 1 person should hold 4 equally skilled people for a minute.
just because you can't doesn't mean no one can. unless you ofc believe all others to be beneath you.

because its the easiest thing to do (go left that is)
I would not be dumb enough to sent 50% of my team to the other side unless I knew we would succeed or 50% of my team were stealth's

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
07.14.2013 , 12:40 PM | #4889
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaerah View Post
I see you and others are grandiously missing the point and derailing in all sorts of off topics.

I did not say it's some unfair tactic of theirs or whatever.

I said:

Regular WZ = THE place for PUGs, randoms, undergeared and under-anything people.

- Add top RWZ guild premade queueing for hours, which is the whole topic of this thread.
Regular WZ= The place for 1-4 players.

There is no distinction in Regular for anyone to be PuG, random, undergeared, etc... It doesn't say practice warzone, or training, or anything that gives a connotation of what the warzone is for other than 1-4 players.

Sooner you stop having false expectations, the sooner this conversation moves forward.
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

Vaerah's Avatar


Vaerah
07.14.2013 , 12:42 PM | #4890
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Regular WZ= The place for 1-4 players.

There is no distinction in Regular for anyone to be PuG, random, undergeared, etc... It doesn't say practice warzone, or training, or anything that gives a connotation of what the warzone is for other than 1-4 players.

Sooner you stop having false expectations, the sooner this conversation moves forward.
I have expectation to have FUN in a game. Guess how much you can hold me or anyone else subbed with your mental masturbations about your idea of who is OK to play in regular WZs or not.

Sure you can say: "well, off you go, who cares". Too bad that 80+ servers worth of players went "off I go, who cares". Let's keep the playerbase dwindling, it's going to do good!