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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.28.2012 , 04:29 PM | #1951
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
Why won't this thread die?!?!?!?!
we need more firepower!
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Prettyevilish's Avatar


Prettyevilish
12.28.2012 , 05:01 PM | #1952
Quote: Originally Posted by FROIDBUSTER View Post
See here's where I would disagree. Early on in my STWOR leveling I started grouping with other random Warzoners, I just had happened to see the same people in a a couple of matches, and we somehow just started grouping up for faster queues.

Now of course gear and all that stuff matters to an extent, especially at 50, but really the biggest difference is this:

.In my average pub v. pub game the closest thing to strategy is 'call inc' or a really passive-agressive "Like 2 people go left guys'.

I dunno if it's the tougher competition or what, but if I see people I know on the other team, in order to beat them I'm more than willing to dump that simplistic '2/6' crap and start naming people off to go to specific locations. Or ask my group pregame if anyone is healing and name off people to watch for them getting tunneled, tell people periodically to scout uncapped objective to see if a stealther can ninja it, etc etc.

And people respond to that ****. I've been beaten by a solo-queued buddy just because him or just the team in general took charge to outplay our group.

And that's the funny thing most of our group started as those pubs, its' just after great games we started inviting each other into groups and adding people to friendlsits so we could play with people we knew-somewhat and get faster queues.
I fail to see how anything you said disagreed with anything I said. In fact, none of what you said related at all to what I said. Did you quote the wrong person?

Prettyevilish's Avatar


Prettyevilish
12.28.2012 , 05:10 PM | #1953
Quote: Originally Posted by ace_boogie View Post
now you just putting words in my mouth, projecting your own insecurities onto me... i never said i dont like competitive matches. nothing more fun than a civil war with a stale mate at mid.

all i said was queued together as a guild (a few of whom are IRL friends) owning every match is a blast. and if you say you disagree with that, then i name you sir... a gosh darn liar or an antisocial mmo recluse.

realize that premades arent about being ******es(although a few are), but its a group of 3-4 friends playing together, having fun, and who are probably just better than you.


edit: and LOL @ "you just want to win because thats fun for you". duh... the whole point is to win. its not up to me to make sure you put up a competitive match. its up to YOU.
You can LOL at that all you want, but you really just proved me right. Of course winning is fun, but winning because you're just face stomping the other team repeatedly isn't fun. Winning in less than 3 minutes (just happened in an Alderaan match I was in - I was on the winning side, btw) is not fun. I actually quit for a bit after that and waited for new players to get into the queue so I wouldn't go against the same team again. Sounds like you would have kept queuing and hoping for them again and again and again, because you find winning, no matter the competition, to be a blast.

BTW, you and your friends probably are not better than me. I actually run rated WZs, unlike you (or so it seems). I'm not afraid to face other premades. And it's far more fun than stomping all over some Puggers in recruit gear (or their PVE gear, heaven forbid).

My argument was not from the "I lose too often and it's not fun" side of the fence, it was from the "I see some serious imbalance going on that's really not cool" side of the fence.

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
12.28.2012 , 05:33 PM | #1954
Quote: Originally Posted by Prettyevilish View Post
You can LOL at that all you want, but you really just proved me right. Of course winning is fun, but winning because you're just face stomping the other team repeatedly isn't fun. Winning in less than 3 minutes (just happened in an Alderaan match I was in - I was on the winning side, btw) is not fun. I actually quit for a bit after that and waited for new players to get into the queue so I wouldn't go against the same team again. Sounds like you would have kept queuing and hoping for them again and again and again, because you find winning, no matter the competition, to be a blast.

BTW, you and your friends probably are not better than me. I actually run rated WZs, unlike you (or so it seems). I'm not afraid to face other premades. And it's far more fun than stomping all over some Puggers in recruit gear (or their PVE gear, heaven forbid).

My argument was not from the "I lose too often and it's not fun" side of the fence, it was from the "I see some serious imbalance going on that's really not cool" side of the fence.
I am on the "there is only so much coddling I am capable of" side of the fence. I am also on the "This is my first MMO, I didn't start playing with any RL friends, and when I first hit 50, I was terrible, alone, and unguilded. Now after a year of practice, watching youtube videos, combing these forums for shreds of valuable information, paying attention to the people in my queues, and how they perform, awkwardly asking people for advice and if I could group with them, I have actually become very good. I am also in one of the best PvP guilds on my server, and resent the idea that someone who isn't willing to do ANY of the above, is not only going to suggest that I am moved to a separate queue that will take much longer to pop, but that I am BAD person for not wanting to go there" side of the fence.

I am also on the "run-on sentence" side of the fence. Seriously, there are a lot of fences here.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

Fixiooo's Avatar


Fixiooo
12.28.2012 , 05:41 PM | #1955
Funny. They had this discussion years ago on the WoW forums that led to Blizzard making it so that premades had to wait ~45min. to enter a battleground which, obviously, noone wanted to do and thus it discouraged people from playing in a premade. Quite sneaky actually. Not removing it but making it not worth the while.

In before Bioware pulls the same trick.

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
12.28.2012 , 05:59 PM | #1956
Quote: Originally Posted by Fixiooo View Post
Funny. They had this discussion years ago on the WoW forums that led to Blizzard making it so that premades had to wait ~45min. to enter a battleground which, obviously, noone wanted to do and thus it discouraged people from playing in a premade. Quite sneaky actually. Not removing it but making it not worth the while.

In before Bioware pulls the same trick.
I just wish people understood that's the issue. It's not that premades delight in crushing pug's dreams. It's that those of us that PvP the most i.e. those of us in PvP guilds, don't want normal WZs to turn into the scheduling nightmare that Ranked currently is. We aren't scared of competition, we are scared to death of going back to the pre-merger queue times.

Just queue solo then... We do. Alot. But we want the CHOICE to group with our friends if they are online. No one is arguing to take CHOICE away from solo queuers. They choose to queue solo, and they COULD choose to start a group/join a guild. Saying there should be a 'Premade only' queue is the same as saying "if you want to play with your friends, you have to wait". Arguing for a premade only queue, doesn't make any more sense than arguing for the removal of the solo queue altogether. You want to run a flashpoint? You find some people to run it with you. You want to PvP, you find some people to PvP with you. That concept is just as "fair" as the idea of a premade only queue. Just that option doesn't make the people that care the most about PvP, have to wait forever to play.

Or we could have a 3rd option, that is the most fair for the most amount of people. You want to queue solo? Queue solo, go right ahead. But you will win less often. You want to queue with a group? Well then you have to find a group. But you will win more often. Oh wait, we already have that option...
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

P-Chan's Avatar


P-Chan
12.28.2012 , 06:48 PM | #1957
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
There has to be a middle ground, i don't think anyone could seriously oppose if the matchmaking would wait another 2 minutes to make a balanced match, and only starts the unbalanced one if it can't find a bettter match in those 2 minutes.

As for the matchmaking, the best i heard so far is by valor, cause if you got the valor but not the gear it's really your own fault, wth did you spend your comms on. Something like try to match teams within 50 valor levels, then expand by 50 every minute would not be perfect, but a clear improvement to the current situation.

I understand valor doesn't equal skill, but on average people with more valor will be better than people with low valor just because they practiced more, so if we could reduce the unfun imbalanced matches from like >50% now to around 30% that certainly would be a lot beter, no?

Case in point i did 5 dailies y'day, took me 14 matches, 1 of them was competitive, the other 13 we either stomped them or got stomped, and both are just not fun
Problem is, I have had a lvl 50 from about 2 week out from launch. I quickly got lvl 65 Valor back before 1.2. I dont have WH or EWH now... How is that my fault? (I had to take a break from the game for Financial reasons...)

I have no idea why this posted again... >.>

P-Chan's Avatar


P-Chan
12.28.2012 , 07:03 PM | #1958
Quote: Originally Posted by madcappah View Post
What you've just said is one of the most insane things I have ever read. At no point in your irrational response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. May God have mercy on your soul.
I dont care what they say about you... You are now my Hero for Quoting Billy Madison!

Polebreaker's Avatar


Polebreaker
12.28.2012 , 07:13 PM | #1959
Quote: Originally Posted by criminalheretic View Post
Just queue solo then... We do. Alot. But we want the CHOICE to group with our friends if they are online. No one is arguing to take CHOICE away from solo queuers. They choose to queue solo, and they COULD choose to start a group/join a guild. Saying there should be a 'Premade only' queue is the same as saying "if you want to play with your friends, you have to wait". .
And? What you are saying is that you want premades to have the CHOICE to play versus other premades and wait, or to play quickly by playing vs pugs. But the pug solo players have no choice at all... you are denying them any choice for the sake of your convenience.

You dont want to wait? Then pug solo.

Want to play with your premade? Then wait 5 minutes for a balanced match to be arranged.

And dont try to argue that solo puggers are playing it wrong because this is an MMOG... OMG wt f are people doing when they join a team with 7 other people? Grouping, geniuses. Talk about a moronic argument.

Tyrrany of the minority in this case... the very vocal minority of premaders who either (or both) dont want to wait or actually like to pug stomp and pick up easy wins by playing with no competition. Neither case is acceptable behaviour in an adult, and would get even preschoolers sat in a corner with no toys.

Vasagi's Avatar


Vasagi
12.28.2012 , 07:19 PM | #1960
Quote: Originally Posted by criminalheretic View Post
I just wish people understood that's the issue. It's not that premades delight in crushing pug's dreams. It's that those of us that PvP the most i.e. those of us in PvP guilds, don't want normal WZs to turn into the scheduling nightmare that Ranked currently is. We aren't scared of competition, we are scared to death of going back to the pre-merger queue times.

Just queue solo then... We do. Alot. But we want the CHOICE to group with our friends if they are online. No one is arguing to take CHOICE away from solo queuers. They choose to queue solo, and they COULD choose to start a group/join a guild. Saying there should be a 'Premade only' queue is the same as saying "if you want to play with your friends, you have to wait". Arguing for a premade only queue, doesn't make any more sense than arguing for the removal of the solo queue altogether. You want to run a flashpoint? You find some people to run it with you. You want to PvP, you find some people to PvP with you. That concept is just as "fair" as the idea of a premade only queue. Just that option doesn't make the people that care the most about PvP, have to wait forever to play.

Or we could have a 3rd option, that is the most fair for the most amount of people. You want to queue solo? Queue solo, go right ahead. But you will win less often. You want to queue with a group? Well then you have to find a group. But you will win more often. Oh wait, we already have that option...
Fortunately, there are more than 3 options, and the idea of what is "most fair for most people" is not as simple and one-sided as you are telling us. Solo players want the CHOICE to play on an even playing field. Why do you want to deny us this choice? Why is an option for solo pvp queues, along with the current general queue, so bad? Would it really be such a burden to have to run a WZ without 3 healers and 2 tanks?

A solo only queue. A general queue as it stands now. Allow people to queue for both at the same time.

Yes, I know, that will not happen unless there are cross server queues. It's a pipe dream, but it's all we have to hope for at this point.