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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.24.2012 , 05:21 AM | #1141
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Where are all these guilds from Guild Summit 1.2? Almost all these guilds gone.

Where are solo casual players since 1.2? Plenty of them still in game.

Bioware still dont have a clue who is their target auduience in the game. Its quite poor their game developers work.
Please provide accurate and measured data if trying to make such a claim, or it's little more than hearsay. It's quit possible many guilds/premaders are still here, just as it's very possible many of the od casuals left already. There is no collection of data or metrics we as subscribers have access to that could justify this claim.

=P and Bioware gets to decide it's target audience, it just might be failing at targetting them. Other to point out your claim has no actual factual (or logical) backing, I have no other reason for making this post.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.24.2012 , 09:03 AM | #1142
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Where are all these guilds from Guild Summit 1.2? Almost all these guilds gone.

Where are solo casual players since 1.2? Plenty of them still in game.

Bioware still dont have a clue who is their target auduience in the game. Its quite poor their game developers work.
I used to know 4 or 5 Rep pure PvP guilds around that time. Now I know only one.

I used to know at least a dozen Imperial pure PvP guilds around 1.2. I still see 3 or 4 of them around but most premades I run into are PvE guilds who are also very good at PvP.

As for the solo queuers, on the Republic's side in an average PuG group I almost always recognize at least 5 or 6 people. As an Imperial, I usually recognize 2 or 3 people each match.

Some of the best players I've ever seen in my life left after 1.2. They were Imperials, almost all of them. Some really great Republic PvP players left during the summer break and I have not seen them since. I don't know why they left but something drove them away. Something to think about.

While we still have many talented and skilled PvP players, the overwhelming majority of the ones I know (and obviously I only know a limited number of people) are hardcore raiders who pass time between operations by playing loads of PvP.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
11.24.2012 , 10:27 AM | #1143
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthFamine View Post
make it so ranked teams cant que for normals while in que for ranked

I think the gear fix coming in 1.6 will help alot of this issue
You realize that would cuase them to give up on a rated que poping much sooner than they currently do which would mean less total rared matches which means more rated capable players in the regular wzs?

Oh and I'd just like to debunk the whole "we have a 100+ page thread so clearly this is a huge issue for SWTOR and deserves a dev comment." The same people arguing back and forth makes a thread longer without doing anything to prove that more people actually care about the issue.

And finally, less cries for mediocraty please. Rise up to the level of the existing competition, don't ask for the rules to change so that you can be king of your own battlefield.

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.24.2012 , 11:05 AM | #1144
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
Oh and I'd just like to debunk the whole "we have a 100+ page thread so clearly this is a huge issue for SWTOR and deserves a dev comment." The same people arguing back and forth makes a thread longer without doing anything to prove that more people actually care about the issue.

And finally, less cries for mediocraty please. Rise up to the level of the existing competition, don't ask for the rules to change so that you can be king of your own battlefield.
Oh the irony. Please rise up to the challenge to overcome your mediocrity and fix your horrible grammar and spelling. On a serious note, not all posts may be constructive nor for a split queue system, but the overwhelming majority agree the system is not fine as is and are for the following in any combination and or order:

-Cross Realm Function
-Adequate and more robust Matchmaking System
-Split queues for Premades and Pugs.


All three of which are pure gold for PvP and all three of which we honestly need as they compound each other and make for a solid system which fixes many if not all problems, putting PvP in an overall much more attractive, balanced and functioning state. We as a community need to be pushing for all three and not just a single one. Alone none of these will fix PvP, instead it will become a slightly less annoying but still dysfunctional system. We need all three, no less, stop arguing and start working together to push for a much more robust, balanced, thriving and competitive PvP system for all.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.24.2012 , 02:25 PM | #1145
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonHawkeye View Post
-Cross Realm Function
-Adequate and more robust Matchmaking System
Just those two should do it. With enough population, Matchmaking would act as a split queue (ie, if its set to sort premades or pug,) while still offering the benefit of filling for partial premades and backfilling for all.

Other than that, you are right. Although I would love for more people to stand up and take responsibility to become more competitive, Cross realm pvp and matchmaking are needed to be less discourage for those whom aren't quite up to par and/or are still learning.

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.24.2012 , 03:08 PM | #1146
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Just those two should do it. With enough population, Matchmaking would act as a split queue (ie, if its set to sort premades or pug,) while still offering the benefit of filling for partial premades and backfilling for all.

Other than that, you are right. Although I would love for more people to stand up and take responsibility to become more competitive, Cross realm pvp and matchmaking are needed to be less discourage for those whom aren't quite up to par and/or are still learning.
No, quit being stubborn and narrow minded. Proper matchmaking would make it less likely, but not impossible for Pug Vs Premade to happen, it won't alleviate the issue. You don't seem to understand the situation. All it takes is 1 horribly one sided, terribly frustrating game to repel players away, permanently. Split queues are crucial and undeniably necessary for long term success and prosperity of PvP, without it we will lose more and more casual and/or new players that have a horrible first time or common experience in PvP. With Cross Realm, population and queue times would not be an issue. There would be absolutely no reason to not implement 2 separate queues. Your pretense of longer queue times dissipates as the Cross Realm population would be massive. The only benefit to keeping merged queues at that point would be to aggravate the vast majority of your player base with the occasional and possibly common mismatched and unfair match.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.24.2012 , 03:22 PM | #1147
x-server queues does invalidate the "longer queue" complaint. with 4-8 servers worth of premades queueing, I can't imagine pops being any slower than they are now (and on my server, they're VERY regular - 5 mins max).
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.24.2012 , 03:35 PM | #1148
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Just those two should do it. With enough population, Matchmaking would act as a split queue (ie, if its set to sort premades or pug,) while still offering the benefit of filling for partial premades and backfilling for all.

Other than that, you are right. Although I would love for more people to stand up and take responsibility to become more competitive, Cross realm pvp and matchmaking are needed to be less discourage for those whom aren't quite up to par and/or are still learning.
Back filling in it of itself is rather dysfunctional the way it is now but I won't argue that topic. Back filling a premade game with pugs should only be an option after the game has initially been formed, ideally matching Premade Combination A Vs Premade Combination B, using pugs to fill in the limited, talking anywhere from 1-4 spots maximum, for either side, again leaving this as a last resort if other grouped players in any combination cannot be found to fill in the gaps. Back filling these games when in progress should be done sparsely and only when the game is not an obvious victim of the "Jump Ship" syndrome; these type of games need not be backfilled and left to the Wz shutdown sequence to run it's course. Nothing worse than wasting a player's time when they are thrown into a game where 2 or more players decided to leave because it appeared to be a losing match. A steeper but reasonable penalty also needs to be implemented to discourage "jumping ship." Better yet an incentive to play the Wz to the end, despite it being a loss but all the more fruitful to push for a win or as close to a win as possible. A linear system as we have now, heavily encourages winning but offers very little to complete the Wz otherwise and has no penalty for abusing the leave Warzone option.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.24.2012 , 03:38 PM | #1149
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonHawkeye View Post
No, quit being stubborn and narrow minded. Proper matchmaking would make it less likely, but not impossible for Pug Vs Premade to happen, it won't alleviate the issue. You don't seem to understand the situation. All it takes is 1 horribly one sided, terribly frustrating game to repel players away, permanently. Split queues are crucial and undeniably necessary for long term success and prosperity of PvP, without it we will lose more and more casual and/or new players that have a horrible first time or common experience in PvP. With Cross Realm, population and queue times would not be an issue. There would be absolutely no reason to not implement 2 separate queues. Your pretense of longer queue times dissipates as the Cross Realm population would be massive. The only benefit to keeping merged queues at that point would be to aggravate the vast majority of your player base with the occasional and possibly common mismatched and unfair match.
I'd like to see your psychological studies on the matter, in following the scientific process to the letter, that 1 match is enough to make enough subscribers quit. Unil then, it is not undeniable.

Split queue's have several issues that a matchmaking system doesn't have. Backfilling, filling for partial premades, the highest potential queue times, highest potential players unable to play, highest allowance for mediocrity, discourages community building... etc... Even if you think you can discredit the queue times issue, you still have atleast 4 other logistical and moral issues.

Matchmaking allows for backfilling and filling of partial premades, and since you say queue times aren't an issue with cross server, than they won't be with matchmaking. Once in a blue moon will there be a "mismatched and unfair match" by the system design.

And if one more person calls me narrowed minded because I don't agree with them, I'm probably going to laugh myself to death. I don't know what you've experience in your life, but I can tell you I've dealt with actual real life issues that require an open mind and a sense of empathy. Not feeling bad for people who refuse to be social is nothing compared to those.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.24.2012 , 03:40 PM | #1150
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonHawkeye View Post
No, quit being stubborn and narrow minded. Proper matchmaking would make it less likely, but not impossible for Pug Vs Premade to happen, it won't alleviate the issue. You don't seem to understand the situation. All it takes is 1 horribly one sided, terribly frustrating game to repel players away, permanently. Split queues are crucial and undeniably necessary for long term success and prosperity of PvP, without it we will lose more and more casual and/or new players that have a horrible first time or common experience in PvP. With Cross Realm, population and queue times would not be an issue. There would be absolutely no reason to not implement 2 separate queues. Your pretense of longer queue times dissipates as the Cross Realm population would be massive. The only benefit to keeping merged queues at that point would be to aggravate the vast majority of your player base with the occasional and possibly common mismatched and unfair match.
My concern, outside of the queue time problem which cross servers would alleviate, is partial pre-mades and back filling for when someone DCs. A comprehensive matchmaking system is already admitted to be needed, and part of that could easily include a modifier if you're in a group. The real problem are the fully optimized premades of people who would be doing ranked if they could. They're the ones that steam roll people. The premades of friends in average gear aren't the problem.

Should the system try to put premades against premades? Absolutely. Should it hold up a 3 man premade because there aren't enough premades of the right numbers composition to get them a spot? That seems silly. Plus it adds a complexity to the coding problem.

First two are absolutely necessary. If premades are still crushing PuGs at that point we can revisit the issue.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd