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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

gofortheko's Avatar


gofortheko
11.20.2012 , 10:15 AM | #1001
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
or maybe it's you?
Leaving weakest (lowest hp) member to guard solo?
not calling?
not guarding?
not killing healer (better to attack dps , to have better stats)
folowing baits?
gettting hard on high dps instead of fast kills?

what is your sin?
Yeah its me, wow thanks for pointing that out!! I NEVER even considered it a possibility that my WH fulled auged toon was the problem. THANKS FOR CLARIFYING IT! I mean it couldnt be the other PUGs I am with, who I consistently outheal, or out dps, or out objective points right! IT JUST HAS TO BE ME RIGHT~! I MEAN THERE IS NO ISSUE, EVERYTHING IS BALANCED, FULL PUGS HAVE A GREAT CHANCE TO BEAT A 4 MAN PREMADE USING VENT RIGHT!

Just another elitest "pro" player who only pvps with a 4 man vent premade and lolgrenades 14k hp newbs thinking hes special.
Weapon-of War
Powertech - Vanguard - Sorcerer - Sage - Mercenary - Commando - Marauder - Sentinel - Juggernaut - Guardian - Assassin - Shadow - Operative -Scoundrel - Sniper - Gunslinger
Guild: Ghost Infantry Server: The Harbinger

gofortheko's Avatar


gofortheko
11.20.2012 , 10:22 AM | #1002
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
Maybe because they think its not an issue and unless they plan on introducing cross server queues separating groups and solo options would have a negative affect on queue times.
Im curious why you think there is nothing wrong with a fresh fitty hitting the WZ in a full PUG and getting smashed by a 4 man (sometimes more if they que right) premade in full WH using vent to coordinate. You think losing fresh players, or having some free to play people just throw their hands in the air and not sub or play is healthy for your so called "negative effect on queue times" theory.

Honestly I am sick to death with all the "pro" players who think beating up on solo PUG group somehow justifies the way warzones are right now. I dont see an issue with regular warzones being pug only, and rated being groups. If you think the population is bad now, well you aint seen nothing yet if more people quit due to how stupid the WZs are made up now.

Oh for your info, I do get into 4 man premades and lolsmash PUGs and other premades, I have two full sets of WH gear, with one being on BOL adaptive gear I pass around between two players.

I also solo que at times when my friends are doing other things besides pvp, and it irritates me to face a 4 man premade every match and lose when I solo que. I want to have fun, not spent a large part of the time stunned/mezzed because I am the only one in the WZ who isnt in recruit.
Weapon-of War
Powertech - Vanguard - Sorcerer - Sage - Mercenary - Commando - Marauder - Sentinel - Juggernaut - Guardian - Assassin - Shadow - Operative -Scoundrel - Sniper - Gunslinger
Guild: Ghost Infantry Server: The Harbinger

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
11.20.2012 , 10:24 AM | #1003
Quote: Originally Posted by gofortheko View Post
Yeah its me, wow thanks for pointing that out!! I NEVER even considered it a possibility that my WH fulled auged toon was the problem. THANKS FOR CLARIFYING IT! I mean it couldnt be the other PUGs I am with, who I consistently outheal, or out dps, or out objective points right! IT JUST HAS TO BE ME RIGHT~! I MEAN THERE IS NO ISSUE, EVERYTHING IS BALANCED, FULL PUGS HAVE A GREAT CHANCE TO BEAT A 4 MAN PREMADE USING VENT RIGHT!

Just another elitest "pro" player who only pvps with a 4 man vent premade and lolgrenades 14k hp newbs thinking hes special.
uh oh, I've hity a soft spot.
1. Items don't make players. I have guildie who is BiS augumented WH, always top dps chart... but I'd never leave him by the node... tunnel vision to kill is reason why he looses objectives.
2. I never said you are bad, but I hear 'out of 50 games I won 3' then, sorry, it might be you. not just you, but being a good player doesnt mean 'i'm awesome, I kill, I medalz, pointz mauahaha', it means you can see other people. Like 'that 14k hp sorc won't be best solo guard', or 'we have only 2 enemies here and 6 ours, let's stop getting dps points and go other turret'
3. I actually mostly solo que, not even half WH, and guess what, sometimes my team wins, sometimes it looses. it's a game.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.20.2012 , 10:26 AM | #1004
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I saw someone make a post yesterday and I will paraphrase it because it was fairly spot on.

I hear a big reason for solo players not wanting to find groups to do normal warzones or guilds for that matter is they have limited playing time. Well this is true for a lot of players. I may only get a few hours or no time to do PvP in general. Now if I have 3 other guildies/friends online great lets get a group going. I am not going to spend an hour or so waiting to get any group together for rateds of the most basic group comp (2 tanks 2 healers 4 dps of ANY class) let alone get an optimized group together because I could be waiting quite some time for that let alone hoping another team is queuing up. I have spent an hour waiting for a rated queue to pop and thats not fun.
This, a thousand times this. The main aspect and limiting factor for most solo players is playtime; many simply don't have the luxury of time to put a premade group together at their leisure, much less an optimized one. Does that mean the player should then avoid SWTOR PvP for their 30min-1 hour session of free time because they are unable to put a premade together in order to avoid a horribly frustrating and unbearable experience?

I guarantee you this epidemic won't get better with time and telling these players, "lol Go form a premade, we have the time to form them thus we deserve to roflstomp you, deal with it." Will NOT go over well for the game.

Know why rated queues are dead, among many reasons one of the top is it simply isn't fun for most groups, only the top and truly skilled teams enjoy the competition and challenge, the remaining groups stop playing them after a short while because guess what.... they get roflstomped... which then brings those teams to Regular Warzones. Pushing this on Pugs is and will continue to have the same effect but with a much more drastic consequence, a gamewide genocide of Pug players (AKA the vast majority of the playerbase. Premades are the minority, accept it and stop deluding yourselves.)

The problem here which needs fixing as both sides have agreed is matchmaking, a temporary one with very steep and moderately flexible guidelines. The overwhelming emphasis needs to be placed on facing players of similar rating against each other and making certain grouped players play against other grouped players. Should the queue always adhere to this rule, no, due to a gross consequence of long queue times but just as paramount is that the system never allow for a Premade A (consisting of anywhere from 2-8 players from a particular premade or groups of premades) to face Pug B (which consists of 100% Pugs) <----- This right here is the problem, and instead the system needs to put more emphasis on evenly splitting premades to face one another amongst the pugs they use to fill the groups instead of grouping them together just to achieve faster queue times.

This system would be used until we have cross realm function, which undoubtedly needs to be a top priority for Bioware, once Cross realm is available, Premade Vs Pug of any combination needs to be completely phased out and never allowed to happen again.


Quote:
PLEASE REMEMBER PEOPLE swtor will not have cross server q's for awhile and I guarantee you they won't do a straight split q anytime soon without cross server. I'm not trying to be rude it is just the likelyhood of this is very low. Also, you will not get a huge following for this idea to make them want to in the first place.

The only logical course of action is to get behind a decent matchmaking system with mixed faction teams and push this hard.
Something like this would be amazing but be realistic. A team consisting of both Republic and Imperials will never happen, although I could care less for the game lore and would prefer a system like this for overall game balance, queue time efficiency and availability of Warzone competition, I don't see it happening from an overall game perspective. We're more likely to succeed if we push for Cross Realm, Matchmaking and Split queues.

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
11.20.2012 , 10:31 AM | #1005
Quote: Originally Posted by gofortheko View Post
Im curious why you think there is nothing wrong with a fresh fitty hitting the WZ in a full PUG and getting smashed by a 4 man (sometimes more if they que right) premade in full WH using vent to coordinate. You think losing fresh players, or having some free to play people just throw their hands in the air and not sub or play is healthy for your so called "negative effect on queue times" theory.

Honestly I am sick to death with all the "pro" players who think beating up on solo PUG group somehow justifies the way warzones are right now. I dont see an issue with regular warzones being pug only, and rated being groups. If you think the population is bad now, well you aint seen nothing yet if more people quit due to how stupid the WZs are made up now.

Oh for your info, I do get into 4 man premades and lolsmash PUGs and other premades, I have two full sets of WH gear, with one being on BOL adaptive gear I pass around between two players.

I also solo que at times when my friends are doing other things besides pvp, and it irritates me to face a 4 man premade every match and lose when I solo que. I want to have fun, not spent a large part of the time stunned/mezzed because I am the only one in the WZ who isnt in recruit.
So you play in premades and are making a fool of yourself all over the forums crying about premades ruining non-rateds?

Also I have a hard time believing that you are always the only person ins't in recruit gear when you solo queue... If you want people to take you seriously at all, stop embellishing your stories about how hard this video game is for you.
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
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gofortheko's Avatar


gofortheko
11.20.2012 , 10:37 AM | #1006
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
So you play in premades and are making a fool of yourself all over the forums crying about premades ruining non-rateds?

Also I have a hard time believing that you are always the only person ins't in recruit gear when you solo queue... If you want people to take you seriously at all, stop embellishing your stories about how hard this video game is for you.
I already told you I do BOTH, and it SUCKS when I PUG solo because we get destroyed. But elitist phags like you just cant grasp the concept that pvp in its current state is going to ruin the pvp game. Its why sub numbers dropped drastically, pvp here is an absolute mess, and something needs to be done. I try to get a 8 man going, but the que times are extremely long on pot5. Its weird how no one wants to do them since even in a loss you get the same RWZ coms as a win in regular.

I want more ranked, so if making regular ques solo pug only encourages players to do ranked, then I am all game.
Weapon-of War
Powertech - Vanguard - Sorcerer - Sage - Mercenary - Commando - Marauder - Sentinel - Juggernaut - Guardian - Assassin - Shadow - Operative -Scoundrel - Sniper - Gunslinger
Guild: Ghost Infantry Server: The Harbinger

cycao's Avatar


cycao
11.20.2012 , 10:42 AM | #1007
Quote: Originally Posted by gofortheko View Post
Im curious why you think there is nothing wrong with a fresh fitty hitting the WZ in a full PUG and getting smashed by a 4 man (sometimes more if they que right) premade in full WH using vent to coordinate. You think losing fresh players, or having some free to play people just throw their hands in the air and not sub or play is healthy for your so called "negative effect on queue times" theory.

Honestly I am sick to death with all the "pro" players who think beating up on solo PUG group somehow justifies the way warzones are right now. I dont see an issue with regular warzones being pug only, and rated being groups. If you think the population is bad now, well you aint seen nothing yet if more people quit due to how stupid the WZs are made up now.

Oh for your info, I do get into 4 man premades and lolsmash PUGs and other premades, I have two full sets of WH gear, with one being on BOL adaptive gear I pass around between two players.

I also solo que at times when my friends are doing other things besides pvp, and it irritates me to face a 4 man premade every match and lose when I solo que. I want to have fun, not spent a large part of the time stunned/mezzed because I am the only one in the WZ who isnt in recruit.
And I am sick of people assuming all premades are fully itemized WH using TS. There should be no reason having full recruit gear either, you should be getting at least a WH piece and some BM when dinging 50 unless you have never tried to PvP before upon hitting 50 and in that case you should expect a very steep learning curve.

I also solo queue quite a bit, like last night was limited for time so solo queued 4 games won three not once had a premade on my team and faced a premade in three of the four games I played. Its not impossible to beat a premade.

As for solo only queue, sure that would work but you would still be against under geared players and have them on your team and based on your description your experience will not change so much except you will get your turn and beating fresh 50 players.

Oh and for the record getting a rated team going takes some sort of effort/time and for someone limited on time spending an hour getting a team together and sometimes waiting for an hour just blows.

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
11.20.2012 , 10:44 AM | #1008
Quote: Originally Posted by gofortheko View Post
I already told you I do BOTH, and it SUCKS when I PUG solo because we get destroyed. But elitist phags like you just cant grasp the concept that pvp in its current state is going to ruin the pvp game. Its why sub numbers dropped drastically, pvp here is an absolute mess, and something needs to be done. I try to get a 8 man going, but the que times are extremely long on pot5. Its weird how no one wants to do them since even in a loss you get the same RWZ coms as a win in regular.

I want more ranked, so if making regular ques solo pug only encourages players to do ranked, then I am all game.
That's a very rational response. I could have used that from you earlier instead of all the trash talking.

It's no secret that pvp has a lot of potential in this game. For my money the open world pvp is still the most fun. You've basically pointed out the difficulties of instanced pvp (in any game). It can't be perfect, especially when paired with a gear grind.

The solution isn't taking away the ability to group for WZs. That's counter to MMOs. Do I know what the solution is? Nope, no one seems to. Maybe it's x-server queues. Maybe it's a new batch of 4man WZs. I'm not on your server, so I can't speak to the specific guilds in there. But on my server this isn't such a big problem. I'd say 1/2 the matches have 2-4 man premades. Regardless, there are enough people who know how to pvp to carry those that are still learning.
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
11.20.2012 , 10:47 AM | #1009
Quote: Originally Posted by gofortheko View Post
I already told you I do BOTH, and it SUCKS when I PUG solo because we get destroyed. But elitist phags like you just cant grasp the concept that pvp in its current state is going to ruin the pvp game. Its why sub numbers dropped drastically, pvp here is an absolute mess, and something needs to be done. I try to get a 8 man going, but the que times are extremely long on pot5. Its weird how no one wants to do them since even in a loss you get the same RWZ coms as a win in regular.

I want more ranked, so if making regular ques solo pug only encourages players to do ranked, then I am all game.
Ok we agree that ranked queues are terribly random and it can be a task to get 8 men together let alone the comp you want to run.

Now as for abolishing normal queues to encourage ranked, well that's not going to magically make my guild mates and friends log in to form teams.

This certainly is a slippery slope but above all and I stick by this is that this game is an mmo and encourages grouping and while not allowing grouping in a non ranked atmosphere could be worse than what is going on now. I would love to get more ranked matches going but I think what would be a huge step in the right direction would be cross server queues.

Striders's Avatar


Striders
11.20.2012 , 10:51 AM | #1010
The goal of this game is not to allow "care bears" to run around winning warzones to make them feel better about themselves. The game provides warzones to fight other players and that is their only job here... the job is not to make sure that everyone is able to win and everyone gets their "trophies" and feels like they are special.

If you want to get better at warzones I would encourage you to do a couple of things:

Work On Your Gear
The better the gear the better chance you have. A lot of those overpowered players in their "pre-mades" have put in a lot of time and effort to get their gear, why should it be any different for anyone else? We have all done it... and yes, I have endured PUGing warzones for an entire day losing most matches but in the end my reward was another piece of gear that puts me closer to my goal(s).

Join a Guild
Yes, that's right. Maybe if you socialize a little you can find like-minded people to queue with... I understand that some people want to be anti-social and guess what? The price you pay for not wanting to join guilds or be social is that you get to PUG warzones by yourself all the time. There is a very simple solution to it but if you refuse than there really isn't anything I can do about it but I'd love to stop hearing you complain.

Realize You Don't Win Them All
I understand that a lot of you grew up in the "participation trophy" / "no dodgeball since it hurts feelings" era of education and because of this you expect everything in life to be a level playing field but that is sadly not reality. There are always winners and always losers and you just need to keep working at getting better. Sadly a lot of the PUGs I have played with (and probably some people on this thread) won't be any better even with good gear. These people won't even realize it's them... they will blame the game, the warzone or the teammates and never realize they are just NOT GOOD.

For anyone complaining on this thread (or the 15 other threads on the same topic) I would suggest you direct all of your negative, whiny energy towards improving your play-style, gearing your toon up and joining a guild. A month from now if you have done that you will probably have forgotten all your ************ and will be one of the people that everyone here is complaining about. People just need to take responsibility for getting better... it won't be handed to you regardless of what your parents tell you.
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