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Are Operatives good at pvp dps, stupide question but i have to ask

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Are Operatives good at pvp dps, stupide question but i have to ask

BigGoatBR's Avatar


BigGoatBR
10.08.2012 , 06:39 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliteAssasin View Post
They're good, but you have to pick your targets with them. Some classes when played correctly can absolutely destroy them. Others are easy to kill.
Yeah as a guardian I have the best combo to beat operatives...

Pop def CDs, cc until they use break then Force Freeze, Force Push and RUUUNNN! =)

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
10.08.2012 , 08:29 PM | #12
stun and upfront burst based sins in all mmos are pretty much the same. I have mained them in a couple games and toyed around with one here and it is the same. They are relatively weak without gear but they are very easy to 1v1 with in very good gear (especially if battle stealth is up, as in if this is up and you have good gear you should not lose against most classes).

The difficulty of this class comes in playing objectively for a team. This takes awareness, forgoing chart dps on some occasions, and careful target picking among other things. Very very few do this well even though many think they do because their dps numbers are high sometimes.

You will see many scrubs that play these types of classes that just like gearing up quickly and griefing but you will very rarely see the good kind. They are very effective if played properly and nothing puts fear into people like a well played one (or for this matter a poorly played one with absolutely top end gear who focuses on finding 1v1s lol).

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
10.09.2012 , 12:28 AM | #13
In the very early versions of the game, they had simply insane bursts up to a game-destroying level, as well as couple of other side-factors also contributed to their OPness (like the notorious 'shock frozen water' fiasco). If there was truly a "stunlock death" -- damage input so high that you're dead, or nearly dead within 3~4 global cools (roughly 4.5 ~ 6 seconds) -- I've only seen it with Ops/Scoundrels in those early versions.

In those days, a very well geared Ops/Scoundrels would need maybe around 4~6 cools to bring down a medium armor/non-tank class. Self damage buff => initial strike out of stealth => Knockdown => back blast => stun => bleed => stab/punch => (+1 upperhand proc) => stab/punch ... would hit for something like 12~13k total. Since the initial strike has a built in knock component, the first two hits are mostly guaranteed, then CC, then 2~3 more attacks leave a light armored class on the verge of death, or just simply dead on spot.

Nowadays, after the nerf, there's no class which can bring another class down within the duration of a single stun like that. It leaves at least around 30% of HP in most cases, which leaves a small window of opportunity for the victim to self-heal, and try turn the tables around.

Ops/Scoundrel players who know how to lead the fight after that phase, have little complaints in general.

It's the people who were too much reliant on the guaranteed death sentence, that started having trouble in finishing the fight -- would let the enemy turn the tables around, and then get splattered... and then come here whining about how Ops/Scoundrels are worthless.


Seriously, the class is fine.

After that, the changes in TTK due to higher general damage output also benefitted the Ops/Scoundrel class -- now they're fine.
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
10.09.2012 , 12:58 AM | #14
Skill requirement is high. Seem to be three types of OP DPS seen in warzones:

-the ones who are absolutely deadly, frequently the deadliest player in the warzone. These guys select targets carefully while not staying out of the fight much at all

-the ones that hang out in stealth at an enemy node hoping one of the guards leaves his post, while the rest of his team is effectively shorthanded (which limits the likelihood that one of the guards will have to leave the node. These guys often lost 1 on 1 battles even if someone does abandon their post.

-the guys who try to play an operative like a marauder and just die repeatedly


There are very few of the first group because it's a hard class to play, but I absolutely dread seeing them on my healer. So with a boatload of practice/skill, yes, dps operatives are really dangerous.

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.09.2012 , 01:17 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
Skill requirement is high.
Yes. Concealment is difficult to play, compared to the simple faceroll rotations of other DPS classes. Operatives used to be the most feared class on the battlefield because you could get owned in less than 5 seconds. Before the first round of nerfs, a lot could kill someone before they could even get up from Hidden Strike.

Nowadays it's slim pickins for an Operative. I enjoy playing mine because it's challenging, but you have to pick your targets carefully. Operatives fail pretty hard under focus fire, so you have to stay on the fringe edge of the fight. Get in, wreck face, get out. Staying out of stealth for too long = dead.

Masarko's Avatar


Masarko
10.09.2012 , 01:58 AM | #16
They are still deadly, but so very reliant on stealth for the deadliness.

Theyre also amazing solo defenders even tho Sins are better also by my opinion the far best duelist.
This goes for Concealment, Lethality... ha try to get out of combat in that spec, so you can stealth
Iam Dog / Bishwhet
Passive Aggressive / Tilt Police

TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
10.09.2012 , 10:28 AM | #17
Dps operatives / scoundrels are useless for team.
Crap damage compared with maras, snipers, pyros, rage juggs, dps sins, ever sorcs.
Crap opener - there only 51-55% chances for 4.5-5 k opener crit, but 45-49% chances for laughable 1.8-2.3 k opener.
Crap survivability.
Useless team abilities like mass stealth.

Indeed, after 1.1 nerf dps scoundrels are broken forever. Every other class can kill them - in similar gear and right hands, certainly.

SovereignConvict's Avatar


SovereignConvict
10.09.2012 , 10:38 AM | #18
I have an Operative, but it's one of the few classes I still haven't really played yet.

That being said, on my fully geared War Hero (I AM still missing my offhand Elite War Hero Lightsaber, though) with pretty much every buff you can have, just last night I was at 100% health and was stun lock killed by an Operative. He popped out of stealth, cc'd me, and I NEVER had the chance to do anything. My CC Breaker was on cool down, so I just sat there while he killed me.

I thought they'd nerfed the ability for Operatives to keep someone stun locked that long, but apparently it's back. He was a fully geared opponent, but I have to wonder if he was using something else to keep me stunned that long or to increase his DPS.

So I'd say that if you operate well on your own, and you're GOOD at PvPing (mainly being able to stay behind a character by running around and also knowing when to strike and when to run), then Operative is a really good PvP choice.

That being said, other than Commandos and Mercs right now, pretty much every class in the game is really good if you play well. Lol.

antwillgreen's Avatar


antwillgreen
10.10.2012 , 11:21 PM | #19
Glad to know you at least admit its stupid but yeah heh, eh ive always hated them with there knifes and coming out of no where and stabin the heck outta you....
Ya you can guess what finger i'll be having up at your idea of what the "Real Star Wars" is.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
10.10.2012 , 11:30 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by ICUto View Post
So this is like what, thread number 8?

To answer you once and for all, no they are not great dps, but that doesn’t mean they can't do well. They sacrifice raw damage output for more utility like having alot of long stuns and being able to go invisible. They have very high burst out of stealth but it drops in prolonged engagements. DONE.
it's incredibly easy to pull an op or sin out of combat stealth with an instant punt or stealth scan, depending on your AC's arsenal. just something i've noticed. in order to use it effectively, I usually have to burn a flash grenade and hope to hell the target isn't full resolve. they really do need a 2 second immunity to dmging effects. that wouldn't break anything. it's just that stealth is so much a part of their game that it seems bogus to counter it so incredibly easy. everything else quoted seems right to me. sins are better dps/guards though.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH