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The Bounty Hunter story is broken

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
The Bounty Hunter story is broken

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
10.06.2012 , 09:48 AM | #11
LS does not mean you are saint, but you will give the mercy you can under your job. I only feel bad about that guy in Nar Shadda. He did nothing to me but I have to ruin him.

Mercurial_Harpy's Avatar


Mercurial_Harpy
10.06.2012 , 11:04 AM | #12
Wow, what a great discussion.

I have both Empire and Republic toons, but I have to say I prefer Empire; it's fun to be the bad guy. In real life, I regularly make ridiculous amounts of self-sacrifices to benefit people I care about.

I say this because if you selected Empire, even if you somehow against all logic end up Light V, you're still the bad guy. Sorry.

George Lucas has never wavered from this point. Empire=Antagonists. I always giggle when I see the pages and pages of forum posts citing justification after justification for why MY Imperial Agent or Sith Warrior is a really good guy who loves butterflies and puppies and he is the exception to the rule. "I and I alone will make the Empire a better place..."

Respectfully, cowchips.

Of course, not every Imperial Citizen (or affiliated ally) is an evil bastard. But YOU are not every Joe Shmo Imperial Citizen. YOU, Mister Cipher 9, Emperor's Wrath, Darth Nox and Grand Champion of the Great Hunt, are four of the most efficient killers the Empire has to offer. You're a big deal, and that's why you get thrown at every big problem the Emperor has.

And this is especially so for the Bounty Hunter. Light or Dark, the BH is a hired killer. He or she selected a line of work at some point after puberty that lends itself to routinely killing innocents without much, if any reflection. If you listen to the whole of your story dialogue, you see in your responses (I'm not talking light or dark here, just denouement of plot) that you aren't very good at long-term planning, you have really short fuse, you don't much care for making allies, you barely tolerate your crew, and you routinely insult very powerful people at every opportunity not only risking your life, but the life of anyone within a kilometer radius of you. But you don't give a damn, as long as the price is right. You're crass, you're flippant, and you're pretty much a mindless thug. And that's just fine with you.

In fact, I would submit that the BH is actually the worst in terms of psychopathic killers out of the 4 classes. Why? He's an unconflicted killing machine that has a reputation for killing the unkillable and carrying out his missions to the letter for piles of credits. It's also why:

Spoiler


When I played through Act III, I was like, is this kind of sick joke where the BH is the guy that arguably makes the most dent in Republic Operations? But if you look at where the other classes are in Act III of their own stories, it makes perfect sense. The Empire will always be too busy fighting itself to make any real progress. That's why the Bounty Hunter is needed as the ringer.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking anyone for chosing to play Light Empire toons or Dark Republic toons. But if you do that, there will be breaks in the logic of your story. I made a few light choices on my Inquisitor, and good god what a mess the story turned into. I've heard the same said for Dark Consulars, but hey, if you're having fun, go with it.

The Light and Dark selections for players to "choose their destiny" is simply a mechanic of the game to give players more feelings of control over their story. Also, choosing "Light" doesn't mean you automatically made a morally acceptable choice, and choosing "Dark" doesn't always mean you just boiled a live kitten and ate it for brunch. The choices to me seem to be passion vs. rationality, or self-interest vs. greater good. But ultimately, I agree with the OP. Personally, I played a mostly Dark BH, with light choices here and there. After finishing the Agent story, I had really low expectations for the BH and ended up pleasantly surprised.

But I'm pretty sure I would make a lousy hunter IRL

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PresentTense's Avatar


PresentTense
10.06.2012 , 11:35 AM | #13
It's been awhile since I finished the BH story, so I'm not going to be able to provide a lot of specific examples, but I guess I didn't share the problem some of you ran into while playing a light side bounty hunter. I think it's largely because my justification was a little different - I was the new guy on the block with few connections in the larger world. I saw the Great Hunt as a way to get out of the hole I was in, which is why I needed the original team to help make me look more important than I was. Would I have preferred to take jobs from the Republic? Probably. It would have been less messy. But I didn't have any contacts there, so there wasn't much I could do.

When I finished chapter 3, I had barely reached light IV, so there were certainly a lot of dark side choices in there when it was necessary for it to be logical. And a lot of those dark side choices did come in chapter 1 as I was fighting to make a name for myself, doing what it took to gain a reputation and gain credits. As my options expanded, though, I felt like I had the ability to make coherent light side choices more often. I declined several of the more objectionable side quests. Did I do things along the way that I didn't like? Yes. Did I do them anyway because I felt like I had to? Yes.

Spoiler

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
10.06.2012 , 04:57 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Pubsam View Post
How would a 'noble vigilante' even get off Hutta? You'd have no interest in The Great Hunt and would refuse Nemro's first contract. Actually a Hutta vigilante would likely have his hands full trying to kill all the Hutts and their goons. He'd be living with the Evocii, plotting raids.

Also, why would someone who cared about justice become a BH? I'd assume he'd refuse contracts unless the marks were someone he considered bad? You realize that bad people are the ones that typically employ bounty hunters, and the marks are usually just unfortunate victims?

At the end of the day a bounty hunter is someone who is OK with killing/capturing people for credits. One that was constantly refusing contracts on moral grounds would seem very unattractive to the types of people in the market for shady thug characters to off someone for them.

It's not as bad as a pacifist BH. But I have trouble understanding the motivations behind a vigilante becoming a bounty hunter. Wouldn't a bounty hunter be a typical target for a vigilante? It's not an unreasonable character to play as another class - actually I'd say BH is the worst for it though since the BH is by definition a criminal of a much higher order than the Smuggler.

That said, playing LS in Act III is good. In fact my BH probably ended up being a lot like your vigilante in the end. I had no idea I'd make him so LS as he started out Act I with motivations appropriate for one who picked 'bounty hunter' as a profession. The type of guy who says, "If they money's good, then so am I," when asked to kill some poor sap. Of course I might spare the sap when I get there, but simply agreeing to go in the first place I can't really see a vigilante type doing.
I didn't say he was a revolutionary plotting to bring down the entire Hutt Cartel, but someone hoping to make any difference from his position. There are simply some people that he believes should be killed or captured and he believes you can be the one to do it, but he does have some standards. I don't think that's an unreasonable concept for a PC's motive, at least among all possible concepts for all possible classes and characters.

I believe The Great Hunt is the only reason that the Bounty Hunter even came to Hutta in the first place. A Lightside Bounty Hunter wouldn't even be interested enough to need to get off Hutta. So that's why I said the storyline was poorly written, the Great Hunt (at least the way it is written now) should not have been how the story starts off.

There's no shortage of evil people in the galaxy. Bounty Hunters with some level of moral code should still be able to find work if they are effective or competent enough. Maybe a Bounty Hunter who refuses some contracts would be less likely to thrive and so exist but, so what? If Bioware could stretch the story to allow a good natured Sith or an evil Jedi, then why not a Bounty Hunter too? It should be easier considering they are more independent and should be free from direct Imperial Authority. You might as well ask why Darth Baras would not only tolerate but promote an apprentice that often refuses his direct orders to harm and kill people. It's like saying the all Sith PC have to be characters that OK killing for pleasure and giving the Warrior only the option to execute Noman Karr. Similarly, going full darkside for the Jedi Knight will shift the character from an anti-hero to a pretty full fledged villain. Yet the Jedi Council doesn't seem to take the slightest bit of action against such a Jedi. I don't think they even threaten to do so either.

My problem with the Bounty Hunter is that even compared to an Agent, Warrior or Inquisitor, the story fails to passably create even a sort of Lightsider story. And I don't understand my own character anymore. My darkside Sith Warrior will sometimes spared people for one reason or other, but unlike my Bounty Hunter I didn't feel like there was no rhyme or reason to them anymore. The writing about the Bounty Hunter claims some of them follow their own code of honor, but the game ensures you cannot. You cannot have any moral standards, not even strict interpretation followiong of a contract on someone. You can tell the Jedi Master that your code is to always bring in the contract (it's the lightside option) but that kind of rings hollow when I have a guy on my ship that I let live just because I could and he might be remotely useful.

Risen-Hero's Avatar


Risen-Hero
03.28.2013 , 09:53 AM | #15
I personally believe that the lightside choices kinda bring the BH a sense of honor and of pride, just because killing someone in cold blood doesn't bring ANY honor whatsoever. Also, Mako is the kind of person who will do what it takes to get what she wants, in this case, revenge on Tarro Blood.

captaincr's Avatar


captaincr
03.28.2013 , 02:14 PM | #16
I've never thought of the light and darkside choices as honorable choices or not honorable choices, but more of levels of rutthlessness.


A bounty hunter kills and captures people for money there's not a lot of nobility in that decision.

May bounty hunter was more light side then dark because there was no profit in killing everybody, and no threat from that person. Or by showing mercy I might gain from it, but the choices remain very self centered. I didn't kill the Supreme Chanceller because at the end of the day there was no benefit. I did kill the Sith that hired me because he was basically never going to let me go and he was a threat. Plus he was a jerk.

With my Inquisitor, this was a young man who had been raised in a slave pen and someone who didn't matter all that much until he became a Sith, he was the trappings of power, and the fact that becoming powerful would ensure that he would never have to return to his old life and would be able to gain a level of revenge by becoming more feared, more powerful and more ruthless then the people that used to call him a slave. There's a simple pleasure in making people submit to your will.

He's pure darkside because his path to security and power means everything. He kills to remove threats, and loose ends and simply because the power of life and death is the greatest power of all.

My Sith Warrior was very neutral in his choices. He wasn't as much about power as he was about vengeance. His decision to make a dark side or light side choice is based around the simple question, can they help me gain revenge and execute the desires of first my master and then the Emperor himself. The Warrior is actually the most loyal and duty driven toon on the Empire side (I haven't played IA yet). I spared a squad of Rebel Commanders in exchange for help against a more powerful Sith. I spared miners because there was no reason to kill them. But I killed a female rival Sith because she was incompetent and was hurting the ideals of the Sith and because she was a future threat to me.

On the republic side my Trooper was pure lightside, because while I had my enemies lives in my hand, I wouldn't kill a beaten foe because I was a solider not a judge and jury.

But I don't think Light and dark relates to nobility.

Zardac_the_Great's Avatar


Zardac_the_Great
04.02.2013 , 11:29 AM | #17
I have a fairly young hunter. I hate playing Dark Side, so I ususally go with the light side choice, but my hunter will do the job you hire him for. You want him to kill your daughter? She's dead. You didn't tell me to freeze her and bring her back. She's dead. You want me to kill your boss? No problem. But I'm not killing his secretary unless you pay me to.

Nice guy? No. But unless he's paid to kill you, he won't. I'm starting to think I'll never get to use any relic, though.

longinoch's Avatar


longinoch
04.03.2013 , 06:29 PM | #18
I stared my BH with the intent of playing almost neutral character, as I progressed however I found that my choices were consistently more and more LS due to two things. One I was not a homicidal machine and Two I felt LS choices allowed me to act more as an independent contractor rather than an imperial lackey.

theUndead's Avatar


theUndead
04.03.2013 , 07:35 PM | #19
This is truly a great discussion.

See for me I like being the bad guy especially with my Empire toons. But my BH was the first toon that actually made me question my choices. Like on my Jugg and my Sin they are both full darkside and that is fine by me as I could justify their actions for their own personal reasons and for the Empire. I did not mind the darkside choices even if some made me cringe. Now on the other side I also made my commando full darkside too as I wanted to make a real hard as nails no prisoner solider who only cared about getting the job done no matter the task. But my Guardian and my Mara are both full light side. See to me it is always about perspective and how I want my characters to grow.

Now as regards to the BH ,although I believe that the job does entail a killer for hire and that taking life is part of the job, for some reason when dealing with some of the similar moral choices that I already knew it just did not sit comfortably with me. I will elaborate a bit further. For example on Hutta the side quest that involves the woman wanting her husband removed because she wanted her son to be Sith and the options were to either kill him in front of his son or lie to his wife that they escaped. Initially I thought well he is getting paid for the job so why not kill him but then it struck me at how nasty and cruel it is to murder a father like that even if it involves profit. Since then while leveling I tried to in the best way possible choose outcomes that were both profitable and to a degree honorable. Now that does not mean my BH was a pushover, in fact quite the contrary if you betray him, use him, or endanger his allies or loves for that matter you will be very much dead. But if he will not go out of his way to murder innocents and will only truly execute people who deserve it.

Spoiler


After progressing through the rest of the story I did find the end of Act 2 a bit distasteful because even though I understood my BH reasoning, the final outcome darkside option was also nasty and the light side was not much better but the lighter side was to me the lesser of two evils.

Overall I felt very connected to my BH as such i really enjoyed pondering the outcomes of the quests with my own morality and making a decision based on that. So although I understand how you feel OP I tend to think the story line was quite good with choices.
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As theUndead mentioned, I can't exactly spell out all of our policies in depth, but that should hopefully cover your concerns.

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nateslice
04.04.2013 , 09:36 PM | #20
On a relatively lawless planet like Hutta, I think a Bounty Hunter is probably viewed favorably by many people; he's sort of like a force for justice, because he tends to go after dangerous people who make their lives worse. Not only that, but he gets to travel the galaxy and dish out justice all over the Empire, rather than being stuck on that stinking mudball. He makes good money doing it, and he's his own boss.

How could a good-hearted denizen of an Empire slum not dream of being a Bounty Hunter when he grows up?

I had no trouble reconciling being a decent person with doing what the Bounty Hunter does. I also had no trouble being loyal to the Empire and opposing the Republic, and even seeing the Jedi as bad guys after the events of Chapter 2...
Spoiler

Of course, it's also true that those were mostly situations where the Dark Side option struck me as the right thing to do. But there were more situations where the Light Side option seemed right to me, as you might expect. And I generally tried to do what was right. Usually, this was right in line with the contract, but there were a couple of exceptions...
Spoiler
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