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Merc DPS I Am Confused

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Merc DPS I Am Confused

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
09.28.2012 , 04:05 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Apaolo View Post
Well said ^
IT's sad really, I love my Merc and my Commando. Worst part is they are a talent away from being viable. Gunnery/Arsenal needs a talent to make Unload/Full Auto or Grav Round/Tracer Missle instant/uniterruptable and Assault/Pyro needs a talent to make Power Shot/Charged Bolts instant. I would say instant as opposed to uninterruptable for CB/PS because this is supposed to be the more mobile tree and CB/PS does lame damage anyway it would be the Merc equivalent of Flame Burst/Ion Pulse.
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Keef-Stone 60 Serenity | | Keets-Stone 60 Seer | | Keith-Stone 60 Combat Medic | | Keeth-Stone 60 Vigilance
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
09.28.2012 , 05:17 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Capt_Beers View Post
The problem is actually being able to put out that DPS. It's pretty simple to shut down a Merc/Commando if you decide that's what you want to do. No interrupt immunity for the DPS trees, especially affects Arsenal/Gunnery. Should a melee class leap/pull you you really have no effective means of getting away from them, more so now with the loss of the KB on Stockstrike.

As far as team utility, if you're not healing you have none. No speed, leap, pull, team buff outside of your class buff. You have no cover mechanic like Smugglers for leap/interrupt immunity. The only think Merc/Commando DPS birngs to the team is DPS, DPS that can be easily shut down. You're one hard stun and an interrupt away from being put on your heels, especially from a burst class like a PT or Marauder (and Maras are also the kings of interrupts).

There is simply nothing that a Merc/Commando DPS can do that another class can't do much better in the hands of the same player.
Pretty much this. Before the server mergers I never stepped into a warzone where the opposing team didn't single me out and light me up pretty much whenever I came in view of the zerg. On the otherhand there seem to be a lot more awful players in level 50 warzones now so maybe it will be more viable. On the other hand I'm having fun killing people with Shadow.

Also for ranged turret DPS my lowbie sniper just leaves me speechless from all the awesomeness. Course at 30 Sniper is very powerful and many other classes don't come into their own into the 40s so we'll see.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

heechJunzi's Avatar


heechJunzi
09.28.2012 , 06:08 PM | #13
Im with the OP. I fairly dominate the wz's I play. I'm almost always top in damage, and killing blows (not kills since I don't dot the way sages do). And by the way, I have a sentinel in aug'ed warhero too, so I know what an op class is "supposed" to look like.

There are some things my sentinel does better, but there are often many other things my commando is superior in. I usually can end a typical wz with 350k damage, 15+ killing blows, 45k healing (I definitely throw around spot heals when I see a teammate close to death).

Assault commando is perfectly fine. I have no idea why every spec has to be competitive.... And maybe gunnery has a tougher time. So what? Just respec.
Junzi - EWH Sentinel Buxi - EWH Commando Jünzi - EWH Operative
----------- The Harbinger -----------

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
09.28.2012 , 06:38 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by heechJunzi View Post
Im with the OP. I fairly dominate the wz's I play. I'm almost always top in damage, and killing blows (not kills since I don't dot the way sages do). And by the way, I have a sentinel in aug'ed warhero too, so I know what an op class is "supposed" to look like.

There are some things my sentinel does better, but there are often many other things my commando is superior in. I usually can end a typical wz with 350k damage, 15+ killing blows, 45k healing (I definitely throw around spot heals when I see a teammate close to death).

Assault commando is perfectly fine. I have no idea why every spec has to be competitive.... And maybe gunnery has a tougher time. So what? Just respec.

Please share with us your mighty secrets oh great and powerful commando. I hate when you idiots just post "oh I do awesome in WZs". Write a guide then. Clearly the norm is for DPS mercs and commandos to suck out loud, so if you're the exception don't keep the secret to yourself.

Or are you worried that the truth is that you just play against crap players who let you stand and freecast? Cause if they let me sit there and do damage I would light up everyone.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Molltor's Avatar


Molltor
09.28.2012 , 07:08 PM | #15
The problem isn't the damage, the problem has never been the damage (well for Pyro anyway) in the hands of someone who knows the class and spec well. Its always been about the lack of survivability teamed with the lack of utility when compared to what any of the other dps AC's bring.

This game isnt about 1v1, but its easy to be caught out, be that during spawn times or whatever, and end up 1v1. The majority of other AC's handle that situation better than a Pyro Merc. Especially with the now impossible task of being able to kite a melee due to our slow being reduced to 30%.

I could pull out figures from my arse or I could provide screenshots of times when I've done very big damage numbers coupled with 75k+ heals, but, and I'm repeating myself now, the problem wasn't damage, unless you was bad. Neither of those things are necessary, as despite supposed evidence of them being viable the only question you have to ask to know the answer as to whether they actually are or not is "Why would I take a Merc over "insert class here"?
Its never the How, the Who or the Where, the most important question is always the When.

heechJunzi's Avatar


heechJunzi
09.28.2012 , 07:27 PM | #16
Shrug, believe what you will. I see plenty of very good commandos. I don't reallly pay attention to who's on the bottom of the scoreboard, so I don't know who's struggling. I feel I see plenty of bads of all classes.

As far as a guide....

- My feeling is the biggest issue for some is playing with tactical awareness. They want to play like a sentinel and melee it up, even when they aren't suited for it. I do everything I can to maintain 30m range at all times. If I'm 15m from my target, I'll start back pedaling even as I fire. If melee comes after me, it's all about kiting as long as possible. Longer a fight goes on, the more my burns give me an advantage. Knock-back, cryo, tech override + concussion charge. There's no reason I can't stay out of melee range for at least 10-15s, even after a marauder has leaped to me (or whatever). After that the shield goes up, as well as medpack/adrenaline.

And I'm spamming auto-attack and HIB and AP (and now sticky grenade) and stockstrike as soon as they come off CD. If I have time and the fights almost over, I'll take advantage of cryo to throw out full auto or a quick heal. The auto attack slows them further of course. So now it's a 20s fight, and I should've done a good 15k-20k worth of damage to him. And I have pulled him a good 60-100 meters from the objective. Even so, with a good, determined melee opponent that has all his defensive cool downs, then I might win only 1:3 the time. But I'm okay with that... Those types of fights are not the be-all and end-all of wz's.

- ammo management. You have to keep your ammo up (or heat down). I spam my ammo-free auto attack constantly. It's close to 1k per gcd in damage... And slows the bad guys, too. I simply don't use an attack with ammo less than half unless I'm about to die, or I have ammo reload ready to go.

- targeting. I'm like the inverse healer. Healers pick the weakest guys on our team, I pick the weakest on theirs. If I see a target with lower health than my current target, I tab over and try to finish him off first. Our burns + HIB hurts more on someone close to death, AND it frees up his target to help me in a future fight. I don't get distracted just because someone is hitting me... If my target is close to death, but someone else jumps me... I'll quickly target nearest enemy, hit him with a cryo, then go back to my original target. Push bad guys off the field as soon as possible, that's the goal of every fight.

- attacks. I never use charged bolt or hail of bullets. I only use morter volley/pulse cannon if the bad guys are stacked together... So very rarely, maybe 2-4 times a wz at most.

Anyways, bottom line, it works for me. Play smart and don't be too macho to run/hide, and I think commandos an awesome class.
Junzi - EWH Sentinel Buxi - EWH Commando Jünzi - EWH Operative
----------- The Harbinger -----------

ICUto's Avatar


ICUto
09.28.2012 , 08:00 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by heechJunzi View Post
I have no idea why every spec has to be competitive...
Tell me then, what is the point of a spec if for not making you competitive?
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vimm's Avatar


vimm
09.28.2012 , 08:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by ICUto View Post
Tell me then, what is the point of a spec if for not making you competitive?
Fun and PvE! I guess.

To the OP:

People are bad - surprise!
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

Dorpire's Avatar


Dorpire
09.28.2012 , 08:33 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Please share with us your mighty secrets oh great and powerful commando. I hate when you idiots just post "oh I do awesome in WZs". Write a guide then. Clearly the norm is for DPS mercs and commandos to suck out loud, so if you're the exception don't keep the secret to yourself.

Or are you worried that the truth is that you just play against crap players who let you stand and freecast? Cause if they let me sit there and do damage I would light up everyone.

pretty much this.... arsenal mercs do just fine dps wise, as long as they are left totally alone and allowed to freecast away from ranged. But if any melee (or ranged for that matter) decides to deign to notice you, you die and your dps goes to the crap. Yes I have had my 700k voidstar runs and 4/500k other wz runs (when the other team sucks and ignores me (ie queing solo and against nub teams)), but if anyone takes notice of me, Im dead (unless I have a healbot along for the ride) and doing 1/200k damage and getting skinnier as I run from spawn over and over and over.