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Nerfed? Not really. My Sage/Vanguard experience post 1.4.

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Nerfed? Not really. My Sage/Vanguard experience post 1.4.

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
09.28.2012 , 03:09 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
I do feel as if it was a step in the right direction for the most part.

Hard to say as well but I think DPS mercs coulda used some more love. Can't speak from experience on that but I only know a few who excel and it seems they're performing about the same... with an interrupt. Didn't notice any others doing well but of course most of em are healers.

And while I didn't see any rage specs completely dominating either... I can say from running rage for the FIRST time EVER. It seems ridiculously easy to hit hard and often. I think a group of 2 or 3 competent rage spec'd warriors could be a little much. The only reason I tried it was everyone sending me messages and my guild on vent saying "you have to try rage now!"

I can see why... this will be fun for a while.
I haven't tried it myself yet, but I have seen a guildie do some serious damage with it. This is a person who did a little bit less dps than me with Watchman, about the same with Combat, they are now regularly beating my dps by 100-250k per match with Focus.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

LARams's Avatar


LARams
09.28.2012 , 03:12 PM | #12
You need to play your vanguard again only this time pay attention to the damage you take. Your a lot more squishy than you were. Everyone wearing heavy armor is more squishy. They broke something or they ninja nerfed IMO.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
09.28.2012 , 04:00 PM | #13
Ya i'm glad fotm seemed to be wars and not sorcs as much. Sorcs are fine but it can make for tedious gameplay when you have 4+ in the same wz lol.

With most wars in smash spec now and even more fotm I get to laugh as they backpedal trying to get enough distance from me to do their leap while I burn them down. I've had some fully min/maxed optimized aug wh marauders that have had me around 20% while they were still 50%+ and they backpedaled until I downed them hehe.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
09.28.2012 , 04:11 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by LARams View Post
You need to play your vanguard again only this time pay attention to the damage you take. Your a lot more squishy than you were. Everyone wearing heavy armor is more squishy. They broke something or they ninja nerfed IMO.
Didn't notice on my Van, but DID notice on my op that people seemed to be taking harder than normal hits and I was getting hit harder than normal. Also seemed to be hitting harder with force lightning on my sorc. Of course, there are a lot of variables that go into all this, so I'm not sure if its a ninja buff to kinetic damage or not.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.28.2012 , 04:28 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by criminalheretic View Post
I haven't tried it myself yet, but I have seen a guildie do some serious damage with it. This is a person who did a little bit less dps than me with Watchman, about the same with Combat, they are now regularly beating my dps by 100-250k per match with Focus.
That's pretty much how it was going for me. Usually me and a guildie are back and forth with DPS. Last night was more fun than competition so we were being "that guy" and just trying to put up stats > objectives. Pretty much every match I was out DPS'ing him by anywhere from 20-30% with a spec I've never used and horrible shock wave management.

I've never called for a nerf but it's definitely a bit much.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
09.28.2012 , 04:28 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
I feel like ALL CC should apply to resolve and be respected by resolve. Grenades, slows, etc.

Resolve needs to be increased IMO, not decreased. The only problem I see with shorter stun durations is in objective based game play, the game relies on CC. Decreasing the duration of stuns would decrease the probability of caps I assume.

If they decreased the duration of stuns I think TTK would need to be decreased as well and that would be a bit much. I can kill players in full BM with no CD's in one rotation of carnage or annihilation sometimes and I'm not even min/max'd.

I feel like the game caters to CC spam instead of catering to intelligent game play. If ALL CC applied to resolve and I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have wasted CC on a resolved player stack to refill that players resolve would force people to use CC properly.

Hard to say when it's just theory but just my thoughts on it... also it could get messy with such a large casual population.
The thing is roots/slows are such a big component to the kiting/antikiting game, and of course many of them are attached to abilities without any real choice by the player. The root on force leap, knockbacks, the specced snares on Master Strike/Ravage, Plasma Cell/CGC, all of these would be nerfed into near uselessness if they added any sort of resolve. I could almost see making them so they respect resolve so they won't work on full resolve targets while not actually adding any resolve. I could also see adjusting the CC trinkets to provide root immunity for a brief amount of time following its use.

I also think simply lowering the CD of the CC breaks being lowered by a minute and resolve filling in a different way would work wonders. I think the "soft" CCs like Flash Bang and Awe should fill resolve by an 8th for every second you're under the effect. So if someone immediately breaks the CC you didn't just half fill their resolve for free, but if it's effective for its entire duration then you essentially just filled their resolve bar for free (the level could be adjusted for the purposes of balance).

I dunno, I'm just spitballing here, but resolve definitely isn't working, even though it's working as intended as far as I can see.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.28.2012 , 04:32 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
The thing is roots/slows are such a big component to the kiting/antikiting game, and of course many of them are attached to abilities without any real choice by the player. The root on force leap, knockbacks, the specced snares on Master Strike/Ravage, Plasma Cell/CGC, all of these would be nerfed into near uselessness if they added any sort of resolve. I could almost see making them so they respect resolve so they won't work on full resolve targets while not actually adding any resolve. I could also see adjusting the CC trinkets to provide root immunity for a brief amount of time following its use.
Good point... I guess at being a primarily melee DPS player... I didn't see that as a bad thing.

pyradius's Avatar


pyradius
09.28.2012 , 05:02 PM | #18
Force Stun was a lame change. Granted, I never really went to these forums previously, but I never once heard any player ever gripe about Force Stun at 30m being SOOO OP. In fact, I don't think I'd ever heard it discussed in any form. LoL, and I've heard plenty of gripes in-game, but never that one. All-in-all, probably a net gain with our new heal and more tactical knockback, but that doesn't mean the Force Stun range nerf was necessary or appropriate.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.28.2012 , 05:04 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by pyradius View Post
Force Stun was a lame change. Granted, I never really went to these forums previously, but I never once heard any player ever gripe about Force Stun at 30m being SOOO OP. LoL, and I've heard plenty of gripes in-game, but never that one. All-in-all, probably a net gain with our new heal and more tactical knockback, but that doesn't mean the Force Stun range nerf was necessary or appropriate.
The change wasn't done because a 30m stun was OP, but because THEY felt it was going to reduce the amount of CC in game.

That's how I read the notes from the dev team anyways.

Ssfbistimg's Avatar


Ssfbistimg
09.28.2012 , 07:32 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
After hearing a bunch of Sages/Sorcs complain about 1.4, it motivated me to try out my WH sage first. After playing games as full Balance spec and full Seer spec, I am very happy with the changes.

First thing I noticed was how great the new knock back is. Instant knock back + server force/slow is amazing! Icing on the cake is when you see the FOTM Rage/Foucs spec miss their AoE, whereas I would have gotten hit if I used the old delayed knock back.

The instant heal is better than I expected. 3k instant free heal as DPS spec? When I went Seer spec, the heal was critting for 6k+.

Lastly, Force Speed has always been our best defensive cooldown and the buffs to it were very nice. Force management is still a downside and the 10 meter stun was more noticeable than I thought. Still, the class definitely feels stronger than before.

After doing very well in a handful of games, I went on to test my WH Vanguard. I didn't have high hopes because, from the patch notes, it seemed that the class received nothing but nerfs.. Admittedly, the class was overpowered pre-1.4 and I thought some of the range nerfs were fair, but the snare reduction seemed unnecessary. I figured the class would still be good, but not nearly as scary as before.

Then, to my disbelief, a friend mentioned that Sticky Grenade no longer shared a cooldown with Assault Plastique. Wow. That possibly makes up for all of the nerfs and then some. At range, I can still open with Sticky Grenade, then put a Assault Plastique when I get closer. The burst potential is insane when using both these abilities.

Overall, I'm really happy with the changes to these two classes.
lol at force speed being our best defensive cooldown. Force Armor is 1000X better then force speed... why you ask. It works 100% of the time I use it. As a balance sage force speed works around 15% of time I use it. Force speed for Balance Sages is way to easily countered. Roots, slows, stuns, mezz, grapples, force leap. I would trade force speed for any of the other classes defensive cooldowns/escapes.