Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Nerfed? Not really. My Sage/Vanguard experience post 1.4.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Nerfed? Not really. My Sage/Vanguard experience post 1.4.

Antipodes's Avatar


Antipodes
09.28.2012 , 01:02 PM | #1
After hearing a bunch of Sages/Sorcs complain about 1.4, it motivated me to try out my WH sage first. After playing games as full Balance spec and full Seer spec, I am very happy with the changes.

First thing I noticed was how great the new knock back is. Instant knock back + server force/slow is amazing! Icing on the cake is when you see the FOTM Rage/Foucs spec miss their AoE, whereas I would have gotten hit if I used the old delayed knock back.

The instant heal is better than I expected. 3k instant free heal as DPS spec? When I went Seer spec, the heal was critting for 6k+.

Lastly, Force Speed has always been our best defensive cooldown and the buffs to it were very nice. Force management is still a downside and the 10 meter stun was more noticeable than I thought. Still, the class definitely feels stronger than before.

After doing very well in a handful of games, I went on to test my WH Vanguard. I didn't have high hopes because, from the patch notes, it seemed that the class received nothing but nerfs.. Admittedly, the class was overpowered pre-1.4 and I thought some of the range nerfs were fair, but the snare reduction seemed unnecessary. I figured the class would still be good, but not nearly as scary as before.

Then, to my disbelief, a friend mentioned that Sticky Grenade no longer shared a cooldown with Assault Plastique. Wow. That possibly makes up for all of the nerfs and then some. At range, I can still open with Sticky Grenade, then put a Assault Plastique when I get closer. The burst potential is insane when using both these abilities.

Overall, I'm really happy with the changes to these two classes.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.28.2012 , 01:28 PM | #2
Pretty much how I see it so far even though my little bit of game play since 1.4 has been drinking heavily and LOL'ing at the rage spec. Definitely think the changes to sorc and PT were appropriate. The only thing I can say from experience is that the rage spec seems a bit over the top. It was fine before... the buff seems unwarranted.

Even thought I never thought PT's were god mode as people implied (hit hard and die easily) I def agree that they were near the top of the food chain. Not much has changed there, still a strong class. The sorc changes are awesome from what I've seen so far and I'm not sure what so many people are complaining about.

Antipodes's Avatar


Antipodes
09.28.2012 , 01:44 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
Pretty much how I see it so far even though my little bit of game play since 1.4 has been drinking heavily and LOL'ing at the rage spec. Definitely think the changes to sorc and PT were appropriate. The only thing I can say from experience is that the rage spec seems a bit over the top. It was fine before... the buff seems unwarranted.

Even thought I never thought PT's were god mode as people implied (hit hard and die easily) I def agree that they were near the top of the food chain. Not much has changed there, still a strong class. The sorc changes are awesome from what I've seen so far and I'm not sure what so many people are complaining about.
I"m worried about the buffs to Focus/Rage also and posted it here:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...16#post5206116

Focus/Rage was already a powerful spec pre-1.4 worthy of a spot in a RWZ team. To be fair though, I haven't experienced anyone dominating with the spec yet.

While that may end up being a big blemish on the class balance changes, I think Bioware was spot on with the Sage/Vanguard changes.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
09.28.2012 , 01:48 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
After hearing a bunch of Sages/Sorcs complain about 1.4, it motivated me to try out my WH sage first. After playing games as full Balance spec and full Seer spec, I am very happy with the changes.

First thing I noticed was how great the new knock back is. Instant knock back + server force/slow is amazing! Icing on the cake is when you see the FOTM Rage/Foucs spec miss their AoE, whereas I would have gotten hit if I used the old delayed knock back.

The instant heal is better than I expected. 3k instant free heal as DPS spec? When I went Seer spec, the heal was critting for 6k+.

Lastly, Force Speed has always been our best defensive cooldown and the buffs to it were very nice. Force management is still a downside and the 10 meter stun was more noticeable than I thought. Still, the class definitely feels stronger than before.

After doing very well in a handful of games, I went on to test my WH Vanguard. I didn't have high hopes because, from the patch notes, it seemed that the class received nothing but nerfs.. Admittedly, the class was overpowered pre-1.4 and I thought some of the range nerfs were fair, but the snare reduction seemed unnecessary. I figured the class would still be good, but not nearly as scary as before.

Then, to my disbelief, a friend mentioned that Sticky Grenade no longer shared a cooldown with Assault Plastique. Wow. That possibly makes up for all of the nerfs and then some. At range, I can still open with Sticky Grenade, then put a Assault Plastique when I get closer. The burst potential is insane when using both these abilities.

Overall, I'm really happy with the changes to these two classes.
Madness doesn't really "work" for me with the cone knockback, but by God is the Corruption lightning hybrid strong now.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.28.2012 , 01:53 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
I"m worried about the buffs to Focus/Rage also and posted it here:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...16#post5206116

Focus/Rage was already a powerful spec pre-1.4 worthy of a spot in a RWZ team. To be fair though, I haven't experienced anyone dominating with the spec yet.

While that may end up being a big blemish on the class balance changes, I think Bioware was spot on with the Sage/Vanguard changes.
I do feel as if it was a step in the right direction for the most part.

Hard to say as well but I think DPS mercs coulda used some more love. Can't speak from experience on that but I only know a few who excel and it seems they're performing about the same... with an interrupt. Didn't notice any others doing well but of course most of em are healers.

And while I didn't see any rage specs completely dominating either... I can say from running rage for the FIRST time EVER. It seems ridiculously easy to hit hard and often. I think a group of 2 or 3 competent rage spec'd warriors could be a little much. The only reason I tried it was everyone sending me messages and my guild on vent saying "you have to try rage now!"

I can see why... this will be fun for a while.

Hairyzac's Avatar


Hairyzac
09.28.2012 , 02:11 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
After hearing a bunch of Sages/Sorcs complain about 1.4, it motivated me to try out my WH sage first. After playing games as full Balance spec and full Seer spec, I am very happy with the changes.

First thing I noticed was how great the new knock back is. Instant knock back + server force/slow is amazing! Icing on the cake is when you see the FOTM Rage/Foucs spec miss their AoE, whereas I would have gotten hit if I used the old delayed knock back.

The instant heal is better than I expected. 3k instant free heal as DPS spec? When I went Seer spec, the heal was critting for 6k+.

Lastly, Force Speed has always been our best defensive cooldown and the buffs to it were very nice. Force management is still a downside and the 10 meter stun was more noticeable than I thought. Still, the class definitely feels stronger than before.

After doing very well in a handful of games, I went on to test my WH Vanguard. I didn't have high hopes because, from the patch notes, it seemed that the class received nothing but nerfs.. Admittedly, the class was overpowered pre-1.4 and I thought some of the range nerfs were fair, but the snare reduction seemed unnecessary. I figured the class would still be good, but not nearly as scary as before.

Then, to my disbelief, a friend mentioned that Sticky Grenade no longer shared a cooldown with Assault Plastique. Wow. That possibly makes up for all of the nerfs and then some. At range, I can still open with Sticky Grenade, then put a Assault Plastique when I get closer. The burst potential is insane when using both these abilities.

Overall, I'm really happy with the changes to these two classes.
Do you think the nerf to Electrocute (sorcerer 4s stun) range was fair?

Antipodes's Avatar


Antipodes
09.28.2012 , 02:22 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Hairyzac View Post
Do you think the nerf to Electrocute (sorcerer 4s stun) range was fair?
Fair? Yes. Necessary? No.

I think Bioware's reasoning for changing the range is misguided. If I were to fix stuns in this game, I'd take them off GCD but lower the stun duration by half (while giving the same resolve). That will keep stuns almost as potent in 1v1 but not as frustrating in 1vN.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.28.2012 , 02:29 PM | #8
I feel like ALL CC should apply to resolve and be respected by resolve. Grenades, slows, etc.

Resolve needs to be increased IMO, not decreased. The only problem I see with shorter stun durations is in objective based game play, the game relies on CC. Decreasing the duration of stuns would decrease the probability of caps I assume.

If they decreased the duration of stuns I think TTK would need to be decreased as well and that would be a bit much. I can kill players in full BM with no CD's in one rotation of carnage or annihilation sometimes and I'm not even min/max'd.

I feel like the game caters to CC spam instead of catering to intelligent game play. If ALL CC applied to resolve and I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have wasted CC on a resolved player stack to refill that players resolve would force people to use CC properly.

Hard to say when it's just theory but just my thoughts on it... also it could get messy with such a large casual population.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
09.28.2012 , 02:46 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Hairyzac View Post
Do you think the nerf to Electrocute (sorcerer 4s stun) range was fair?
I don't think it was a nerf to those who used it properly. As a sorc, it should be used to avoid large damaging abilities (ravage) or having to deal with ridiculous DCDs (Undying rage) or it can be used as an escape. In any of these scenarios, it can be used at 10 meters as easily as 30 meters. The decrease on force speed's CD is enough to escape ranged classes more reliably if necessary.
The Original Aether Legacy
Erza-Jugg / Saberscythe-Mara / Atropo-Sorc
Patharos-Guardian / Kadinne-Vanguard / Aquilo-Sage
Prophecy of the Five

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.28.2012 , 02:48 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
I don't think it was a nerf to those who used it properly. As a sorc, it should be used to avoid large damaging abilities (ravage) or having to deal with ridiculous DCDs (Undying rage) or it can be used as an escape. In any of these scenarios, it can be used at 10 meters as easily as 30 meters. The decrease on force speed's CD is enough to escape ranged classes more reliably if necessary.
+1...