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EnkiduNineEight's Avatar

09.09.2012 , 08:09 AM | #1
There are a lot of threads out there to wade through, I admittedly then did not go through all of them before posting this. I am encouraged though that every time I have spoken about this 'in game' people seemed to see it as novel but were also very enthusiastic.

The problem, for me, is that this is not novel. In fact, this was the model, in part, of a prior MMO which is the property of EA.

So... Here goes:

Main Thesis: The End Game Stinks. Raids for PVE and Warzones for PVP are just boring. Its the same thing repeatedly and does not engage the players or the community and has no 'result' on the game as a whole so feel pointless.

Suggestion/Solution: Re-think 'Ilum' and instead of making it a single planet, I suggest making it three separate planets in the 'Ilum System'. Give each of these planets a character of their own. Ilum can remain as a snowy/ice world. Create a Forest World (More Endor than not.. lots of big trees/maybe some rocky/mountainous terrain as well) and then perhaps an Ancient civilisation that has fallen so a ruined industrial world.

When travelling to these planets your level is automatically brought to 49 or the equivalent just as in War Zones if you are under level 49. If you are level 50, you stay at that level (with associated bonuses etc.. so War Hero will matter somewhat) When the level cap changes, update the auto-balance in the Ilum System planets.

Make Holding/Controlling each of these worlds 'matter'. Give each world a specific bonus it provides to the side that controls it. The bonus should be small enough that it doesn't completely neuter the other side, but large enough that it matters. I would suggest +2 to +5% Tech Power, +2 to +5% Force Power and +2 to +5% Endurance. Old Tech world = tech power, Ilum = Force power, Forest World = health.

To control a world, have multiple fortifications on the planet, of which you need to hold a majority and once you hold the majority you can assault the primary Fortress/Planetary transport facility. These fortifications are held by NPC's of significant but not insurmountable strength. When you defeat them (and spend time/resources 'upgrading' the fortification, they will be replaced with your own side's versions of the NPC's. Making the Primary Transport Facility (Where all ships come and go and thus facilitate trade) The final fortification means the defenders have a slight advantage in that their new defenders coming in from other systems will arrive at the place most necessary to defend. Attackers on an Ilum system planet will be drop shipped in on the fringes, OR.. as they gain control of fortifications, directly to a captured fortification that has been upgraded appropriately.

Each world should have plentiful resource nodes of all various types. Perhaps in underground/mining areas These should encompass the materials for Tiers 3 and up. These materials are required/necessary to upgrade and repair fortifications but they are also a source of resource gathering for players in a 'danger one' so there is more risk/reward to the activity.

Assign rewards to killing other players, damaging/repairing fortifications, etc.

Lastly, create a 4th 'world' that is only available when you control two or more of the planets. This world would be a PvE focused world that is accessible to players level 30+ and there is no automatic 'balancing' to level 49 etc. Instead there are quests and vendors and unique materials that can be harvested here that are not available anywhere else in the game.

What this does:
In creates a World Zone PVP area that 'matters'. Instead of queueing for warzones and waiting endlessly for them to pop you instead have three whole planets you can run around on and perform an action that benefits your side while also gaining personal rewards, gathering materials for crafting, etc. By making having a majority of the available Ilum System planets under our sides control open a PvE area that is beneficial to your entire side, you are helping to create the impetus for people to join the Open World PVP rather than to site and be bored waiting for Queues.

Many of you may recognise this as the model from DAoC (Dark Ages of Camelot) which anyone who has played, likely remembers as the best implementation of PvP in a MMO for the very longest time. It is a model that was followed by GW2, etc. because of its long known and enjoyed play style. DAoC/Mythic was purchased by EA and rolled into BioWare so there likely exists people who have experience in this sort of system. (Which is why I am baffled endgame PvP wasn't better thought out and why they followed the boring/ugly WoW model)

You have the option to '4man' it and create specialised groups of raiders whose fun is derived from acting as commando squads and disrupting the enemy. You have the option for 'Zergs' large pick-up groups/operations groups who work together to accomplish the larger goals like taking facilities, etc. You have the solo players/stealth types who enjoy trying to work the fringes and take out stragglers on their own. You have the people who need to collect resources for their crafting and head to the areas where it is more plentiful but also more dangerous.

What it does though, is what Ilum was originally designed to do. Give purpose to open world PvP and an activity that people can enjoy. By tying holding worlds to opening a new PvE zone you also discourage the turret humping/back and forth that occurred on early Ilum because there was no real clear goal to ilum except to farm points. You will not want, as a side, to give away a resource because if you do, the other side has access to the special PvE zone and you no longer do.

If you like this, please see my other thread as well: ENDGAME UPDATE: Space

alexzk's Avatar

09.09.2012 , 08:51 AM | #2
4th planet must have something really unique. Not just blue-red-white crystals, but ability to craft WH pieces/+61 crystals, some relicts to give+15% passive crit rate. Whatever.

And it must be hard to gather as well. For example that relict can be dropped once per week from some boss.
There is no ignorance - there is knowledge.

EnkiduNineEight's Avatar

09.09.2012 , 09:00 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by alexzk View Post
4th planet must have something really unique. Not just blue-red-white crystals, but ability to craft WH pieces/+61 crystals, some relicts to give+15% passive crit rate. Whatever.

And it must be hard to gather as well. For example that relict can be dropped once per week from some boss.
I would agree. Make it another way to gather the sort of resources that can presently only be gathered by running a hard mode flashpoint, etc. This does multiple things. This gives PvE players another way to gather resources that is not running the same story/content repeatedly. It adds a little 'danger'/fun element into it by allowing for people to 'log out' in the zone and when they log back in its now controlled by the other side.

It certainly should have its own quests/content and should have some bosses etc that drop unique equipment only accessible in this zone.

Perhaps have its 'own' craftable materials that can only be used when you are in that zone and using a specific crafting node. meaning your side will have to hold the Planet/Zone if you want to go do certain crafting etc.

I am in total agreement, just wanted to keep my post length down and so did not ennumerate every little thing.

EnkiduNineEight's Avatar

09.10.2012 , 06:54 AM | #4
Now that it is a weekday, I would love for more eyes to view this and some feedback/suggestions.

KShafe's Avatar

09.10.2012 , 10:04 AM | #5
aweseome, well put together suggestion. I love it. I just wonder if Bioware actualy takes into consideration what many are asking for. there are many many threads suggesting this same/similar theme.,,, more pvp on all servers... yet bioware has not once done a thing to even suggest they read this...

i love the concept though...
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templercarson's Avatar

09.10.2012 , 10:24 AM | #6
Everyone seems eager to help SWTOR out, but updating the World PvP (if you just mean only Ilum then I suppose it does need helping...really) will not be enough I think in my books, there needs to be more done in order to save SWTOR and increase the population of gamers for SWTOR, I suggest we combine our ideas together (through compromise or agreeing on all of our points), request a developer of SWTOR to review our petition to updating SWTOR and helping it grow, and pray that if they do take it the ideas and update SWTOR, it will bring more people back and gather newer people to SWTOR reaching to a good number of 2-4 million people (this way more people can be able to do more PvP matches, more Operations, more Hardmode FP's, and even have more fun with the game).

I personally believe that SWTOR i needs to have added: "Minor Factions". Like what WoW does with it's factions (Argent Crusade as an example), we need to add Factions like WoW did, but implement them and go at it differently. Here's a good example of Minor Factions: The Hutt Cartels, they should create 3 minor factions in the Hutt Cartels: 1. supporting your Main Faction (Republic/Empire) 2. One that wants to break ties with your Main faction and 3. (if they want to add this) a minor faction that supports neutrality. All the Minor factions will have quests to get your respect increased amongst the minor faction you choose, as it is our decision of what faction we want to have. Titles and Gear should be the rewards to anyone who can gain a high enough level of respect (or reputation, whichever you go by) that can be used for either PvP or PvE. The Planets so far I thought out of having these Minor Factions are: Taris, Nar Shaddaa, Tatooine, Balmorra, Voss and Belsavis.

If anyone agrees with my ideas, private message me. or reply to me. I do think it is a good idea to update the World PvP as I am a tank in PvP and it does makes me feel better to know that I won't keep getting stunned by Sith Inquistors using that Lightning Stun and an Imperial Agent is not always knifing me in the back.
Grand Master Kavasta Ebonlocke, Leader of the Republic Crusaders:
"May The Force Guide You To The Greater Future, Whatever That May Be..."-Kavasta

EnkiduNineEight's Avatar

09.11.2012 , 07:09 AM | #7
Thank you for the replies. I am not sure adding 'factions' really helps World PvP. Its possible I am not understanding how your suggestion would really work. I could see having a third faction (1v1v1 seems to be a great model for PvP) but this third faction would also require _considerable_ development because not only would it need to be included in the endgame pvp (which needs a boost) but then you would need to develop basically an entire third set of storylines. Even if you only limited to it 'chapter 2' players (level 35ish) being able to switch over you still have a significant investment in resources to create a place for these players to interact and play in with quests etc.

My initial suggestion takes the existing 'factions' and builds a reason/playground for them to interact in end game pvp so while it does involve some development, its not as large a job as a third faction would be.

If anyone else has ideas, likes or even hates this idea, please keep on posting!

EnkiduNineEight's Avatar

09.13.2012 , 06:44 AM | #8
Still looking for more feedback, positive and negative.

EnkiduNineEight's Avatar

09.21.2012 , 06:58 AM | #9
I think it is vital that BioWare create more object oriented/open world PvP as described because the current PvP setup is actually doing them damage.

WarZone PvP does very little to build the community. Instead I see it fracturing the community and creating division and unnecessary aggression within a faction. The 'Hard Core' pvP players are often some of the worst presences in General chat on Fleet, and their behavioous is often not very new player friendly and the WarZones themselves for a 'new to 50' player are exceedingly hostile and a not enjoyable experience.

You thus turn people off significantly to the game, population dwindles,, merge servers, rinse and repeat.

Part of what made DAoC great was that it was an us vs them mentality, not Me against all of you. This helped foster community and made things grow. Having Wold PvP areas where the actions of the people searching out PvP fights etc and taking and holding fortigfications, and having these represent bonuses to the entire faction, would help foster a much better and more integrated community.

It gives the level 50 players waiting for new content something to do that 'matters' instead of instead queueing for warzones and talking trash while they sit and wait.

Borrowing WoW's PvP model was one of the worst decisions you could have made in my opinion.

MosesMercury's Avatar

09.21.2012 , 10:20 AM | #10
I really like the idea, Enk. I posted a similar idea here
Your idea seems a little more fleshed out. I definitely think that PvE needs to be incorporated in. And as long as we all have a reason to keep going back, the idea will work.
Will it take time to code? Yes. But, I definitely think it would help the monotony of endgame.
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