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Lost Island HM should have better loot.

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FlyinSpaghetti's Avatar


FlyinSpaghetti
12.06.2012 , 08:31 PM | #271
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
Except groups have done it in Tionese, so, uh, yeah.
But that's like saying TFB SM should be a 4 man flashpoint instead of an 8 man operation because someone in the world somewhere has beaten half the bosses on it in a 4 man...

In case you miss the point the recommended gear for the content should be what the "majority" can complete it in, not what one or two leet guilds managed to scrape through it in.

I've never had a successful game of LI HM where I had to carry someone with 15k hp and under, especially in a PuG situation.
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
Thats no moon... thats a CARTEL COIN!

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.06.2012 , 09:14 PM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by FlyinSpaghetti View Post
...

In case you miss the point the recommended gear for the content should be what the "majority" can complete it in, not what one or two leet guilds managed to scrape through it in.

....
"Should Be" is a subjective thing. Jesse Sky thinks that it "should be" a difficult flashpoint, and the gear rewards are for those who can do it with less than Columi/Rakata. I happen to agree with him.

While doing the FP in only Tionese is surely a very difficult thing, doing it in less than FULL Columi (with a Rakata Chest and a Columi MH no less) is much more within reach.

Bioware is not going to up the loot table from 56 to 58 across the whole flashpoint. So the only thing these complaints could accomplish is for them to nerf it yet again, to which I say, "Please don't"

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.06.2012 , 09:50 PM | #273
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
"Should Be" is a subjective thing. Jesse Sky thinks that it "should be" a difficult flashpoint, and the gear rewards are for those who can do it with less than Columi/Rakata. I happen to agree with him.

While doing the FP in only Tionese is surely a very difficult thing, doing it in less than FULL Columi (with a Rakata Chest and a Columi MH no less) is much more within reach.

Bioware is not going to up the loot table from 56 to 58 across the whole flashpoint. So the only thing these complaints could accomplish is for them to nerf it yet again, to which I say, "Please don't"
No, from all the good groups(beat the whole FP) I've had, there is only 1 group got 2 columi characters, one of that is my sorcerer, others all have rakata or higher.

Since it need 56 to beat, why can't it have 58 drop through out the way, and it's not like you can skip LR-5 or Sav Rak.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.06.2012 , 10:29 PM | #274
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
No, from all the good groups(beat the whole FP) I've had, there is only 1 group got 2 columi characters, one of that is my sorcerer, others all have rakata or higher.

Since it need 56 to beat, why can't it have 58 drop through out the way, and it's not like you can skip LR-5 or Sav Rak.
It takes my normal group about 8 minutes from starting the FP to clearing LR-5. If you honestly think Rakata drops should be farmable THAT quickly I don't know what to tell you. The best compromises I've seen was Kitru's suggestion of dropping some Rakata level mods and to bring the comm drops up to Columi instead of Tionese.

It has been cleared by multiple full Tionese groups so it does not require 56 to beat. I'd also like to highlight that you can't compare clearing content in the minimum possible gear and undermanning content with much better gear than required.

I've cleared this with a PUG in less than Columi gear. No one had ANY Rakata, just about half Columi half Tionese. Yes we wiped several (read many many) times, but we got it down. In general, gear gives you a buffer on hitting mechanics, in this FP, hitting mechanics gives you a buffer on (what is accepted as, but not intended as) the minimum gear.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

FlyinSpaghetti's Avatar


FlyinSpaghetti
12.06.2012 , 11:35 PM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
"Should Be" is a subjective thing. Jesse Sky thinks that it "should be" a difficult flashpoint, and the gear rewards are for those who can do it with less than Columi/Rakata. I happen to agree with him.
There's a difference between being difficult and being a gear check, the shaclaw and sav rak are a huge gear check on healers unless you happen to be some sort of healing god most would never be able to heal through the spike damage in just tionese.

Not only that but gear is a good experience check in a small way also, someone who has tionese generally has just started endgame. Unless they already have MMO experience or happen to be playing on their 5th alt and have already done the fights a zillion times to have it down to routine they are not going to be very effective than someone who at least ground their way to full columi and done a ton more flashpoints and sm ops to have far more experience of endgame mechanics.

The mechanics of this flashpoint are reminiscent of denova and tfb where one slight mistake at any point can wipe you therefore saying someone almost fresh out of class story can handle it is a bit silly to say IMO.

As for gear drops, I'm not saying it should give you all your rakata pieces (even if rakata's really nothing much any more) however it should give you some reward that suits the experience and difficulty. If not gear then random cartel items, mats, mounts, pets or anything bar some tionese crystals and gear you can farm from another flashpoint with little effort.

At the end of the day the author of this thread made this probably because they were frustrated at the rubbish drops and I agree with them, the drops need to be more fun and useful if I'm going to play it more than once a week.
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
Thats no moon... thats a CARTEL COIN!

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.06.2012 , 11:49 PM | #276
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
It takes my normal group about 8 minutes from starting the FP to clearing LR-5. If you honestly think Rakata drops should be farmable THAT quickly I don't know what to tell you. The best compromises I've seen was Kitru's suggestion of dropping some Rakata level mods and to bring the comm drops up to Columi instead of Tionese.

It has been cleared by multiple full Tionese groups so it does not require 56 to beat. I'd also like to highlight that you can't compare clearing content in the minimum possible gear and undermanning content with much better gear than required.

I've cleared this with a PUG in less than Columi gear. No one had ANY Rakata, just about half Columi half Tionese. Yes we wiped several (read many many) times, but we got it down. In general, gear gives you a buffer on hitting mechanics, in this FP, hitting mechanics gives you a buffer on (what is accepted as, but not intended as) the minimum gear.
So what? Rakata is only the 4th best gear(Dreadguard, Campaign, BH) in the game right now, people can also buy Rakata implants from GTN.

Most of the groups require Columi to beat, especially pugs, yeah you said you did with 1, but how many PUG groups you've met can clean it with such gear before too many wipes?

FlyinSpaghetti's Avatar


FlyinSpaghetti
12.06.2012 , 11:56 PM | #277
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
So what? Rakata is only the 4th best gear(Dreadguard, Campaign, BH) in the game right now, people can also buy Rakata implants from GTN.

Most of the groups require Columi to beat, especially pugs, yeah you said you did with 1, but how many PUG groups you've met can clean it with such gear before too many wipes?
Probably none, no way can you get a bunch of randoms/tionese only group via GF and get far. Most people above are vouching for guild runs and probably do it with voip which is why they are saying it's easy.
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
Thats no moon... thats a CARTEL COIN!

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.07.2012 , 12:02 AM | #278
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
So what? Rakata is only the 4th best gear(Dreadguard, Campaign, BH) in the game right now, people can also buy Rakata implants from GTN.

Most of the groups require Columi to beat, especially pugs, yeah you said you did with 1, but how many PUG groups you've met can clean it with such gear before too many wipes?
Most PUGs these days way overgear any content. That's probably the lowest group I've seen in a PUG LI and its one I organised in General. I don't regularly PUG this FP, but I've cleared it a few times in a PUG. Since my first clear I've never had a PUG give up or be unable to do it.

It's really tough until you learn it, then its a nice challenge for a bit before you get it really down. After that its a joke like the rest of the FPs.

Also, Rakata is the 3rd best gear in the game. Campaign and BH are the same tier. HM LI is still the only infinitely farmable content that drops above Columi. Yes BH gear is better but without setting foot in an Op you can only get 47 comms a week. Thats not even a slotted piece a week.

Maybe if HM LI dropped Rakata belt and bracers that would be ok. They're trash anyway. Stops people getting a bunch of mods and its craftable if you have the right skills.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.07.2012 , 01:18 AM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by FlyinSpaghetti View Post
There's a difference between being difficult and being a gear check, the shaclaw and sav rak are a huge gear check on healers unless you happen to be some sort of healing god most would never be able to heal through the spike damage in just tionese.

...
I don't disagree in general with the fact that HM LI is difficult, but many people including yourself really seem to overstate the problem.

When my sage healer turned 50 (second toon to bring into HM LI) I was 1/2 Columi with Rakata earpiece and I was able to heal both the Shaclaw and Sav-Rak. And I'm not some spectacular healer either. I've personally grouped with 5 other healers who far outstrip my skill, and at the time I first healed HM LI I was still learning the ropes.

I'm not trying to say it's easy. That's not my point. And probably a Tionese healer would really need to be at the top of their game. But I've seem dpses stand on the wrong side of Sav-Rak and eat the conal attack taking too much damage. And I've seem others not do that making the healer's life easy.

I dps'ed Sav-Rak and have seen a healer run out of force. And I've seen other healers elegantly work Noble Sacrifice every time they get the free proc. As a healer I can land a Salvation right before he starts the chest pounding stage. We're all waiting in the middle doing dps and getting topped off before the pipe stage.

The point I'm trying to make is that this is hard, and it is challenging and (for me at least) it is fun because it is challenging. But I've seem people in this thread claim that HM LI is harder than SM EC. All that tells me is there are people missing some aspects of the mechanics that make the fights seem like a gear check, because they have to overgear it to make up for mistakes.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.07.2012 , 10:39 AM | #280
Quote: Originally Posted by FlyinSpaghetti View Post
Probably none, no way can you get a bunch of randoms/tionese only group via GF and get far. Most people above are vouching for guild runs and probably do it with voip which is why they are saying it's easy.
This is probably true.

But that applies to EC and TfB as well. Gather an 8-man pug, don't let them use VOIP and put them in EC.

They're either going to

a) Fail
b) Be way overgeared
c) Be elite-super-good individual players that have done it a million times already