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Lost Island HM should have better loot.

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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.05.2012 , 10:48 PM | #251
Slowpokeking, it looks like we're at an impass.

I'm willing to concede that attractive non-progression loot drops could be added to HM LI to reward the full Columi+ player that wouldn't benefit from anything LR-5 drops.

You won't budge on anything.

Why is this so important to you? I know why this is important to me. I've already seen HM LI made easier and I've seen endgame gear made easy to obtain with little effort. I'd like for this to stop happening, at least until we have more Tier 2 flashpoints that present a challenge. (psst Bioware: Mandalorian Raiders or Collicoid War Games ...)

But you've made it very clear that you won't agree with ANY of the points I've made and it appears that you will continue to campaign for more Rakata gear drops (or an easier instance) until Bioware gives in to you.

Why? What will happen if your vision doesn't come to pass?
Why is this so important that you won't concede to a single point I've tried to make on this 26-page thread?

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.05.2012 , 10:52 PM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
\I'm just trying to find some middle ground with Slowpokeking whose been arguing with me over loot drops for days now.
If the existing cosmetic benefits aren't enough, I doubt adding more will do any good unless you make them so common that they're no longer special, at which point they lose the advantage of being special.

As to dropping better loot, remember that there isn't a non-set tier equivalent to Rakata so Hm LI can't follow suit to the loot paradigm of the T1 Hm FPs (exotech gear from bosses and a columi token from the last boss). The paradigm is follows is still an upgrade over the previous tier (columi tokens from bosses and a Rakata token plus an extra Columi token, both for slots that only drop from final bosses of Ops, from the last boss).

Regardless, most of that loot became redundant as soon as the developers provided BH comms from the GF daily. The only loot that *actually* matters is stuff better than BH gear because you can get all the BH gear you need running HM FPs through the groupfinder.

The only Rakata tier gear compromise that I would be willing to make would be to have each boss drop a random grade mod, enhancement, or armoring (though not necessarily the armoring since that is tied to the specific rating of a piece of gear and might be a bit excessive). It's not a full piece of gear, but it's definitely going to be an upgrade for Columi (assuming that they're not using the wrong mod/enhancement) and, depending on the specific enhancement gained, could be an upgrade over an existing mod or enhancement for some ill-itemized Rakata or BH gear they've already got.

A mod or enhancement would provide a discrete and tangible gearing improvement and making it Rakata gear would make it provide the desired improvement in loot tables. The cosmetic rewards are already there for the people that want them. The only improvement in the loot table needed is providing a tangible gearing improvement without making it too strong. Adding random mods/enhancements as drops could do that pretty well.
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Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.05.2012 , 11:04 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
If the existing cosmetic benefits aren't enough, I doubt adding more will do any good unless you make them so common that they're no longer special, at which point they lose the advantage of being special.

As to dropping better loot, remember that there isn't a non-set tier equivalent to Rakata so Hm LI can't follow suit to the loot paradigm of the T1 Hm FPs (exotech gear from bosses and a columi token from the last boss). The paradigm is follows is still an upgrade over the previous tier (columi tokens from bosses and a Rakata token plus an extra Columi token, both for slots that only drop from final bosses of Ops, from the last boss).

Regardless, most of that loot became redundant as soon as the developers provided BH comms from the GF daily. The only loot that *actually* matters is stuff better than BH gear because you can get all the BH gear you need running HM FPs through the groupfinder.

The only Rakata tier gear compromise that I would be willing to make would be to have each boss drop a random grade mod, enhancement, or armoring (though not necessarily the armoring since that is tied to the specific rating of a piece of gear and might be a bit excessive). It's not a full piece of gear, but it's definitely going to be an upgrade for Columi (assuming that they're not using the wrong mod/enhancement) and, depending on the specific enhancement gained, could be an upgrade over an existing mod or enhancement for some ill-itemized Rakata or BH gear they've already got.

A mod or enhancement would provide a discrete and tangible gearing improvement and making it Rakata gear would make it provide the desired improvement in loot tables. The cosmetic rewards are already there for the people that want them. The only improvement in the loot table needed is providing a tangible gearing improvement without making it too strong. Adding random mods/enhancements as drops could do that pretty well.
There are Rakata ear pieces/implants, as well as some good relics. Let the first bosses drop it.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.05.2012 , 11:54 PM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
There are Rakata ear pieces/implants, as well as some good relics. Let the first bosses drop it.
I could see dropping the Rak grade ears, implants, and relics insteads of columi tokens, as long as they were BoP. Of course, my suggestion to drop grade 25 BoP mods/enhs was in addition to their current loot tables. The problem with changing the loot tables so that the columi tokens aren't guaranteed (which is what would happen if you added the earpieces/implants/relics to the loot table) is that some people do want those tokens. Adding the mods provides a partial piece of gear that isn't as useful to someone fresh as an entire piece of gear while simultaneously being potentially useful to someone that already has the relevant piece of gear in the first place.
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Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
12.06.2012 , 09:19 AM | #255
The effort to finish this FP is not worth the reward. It has been like this since the beginning and the only reason i do it is for the weekly to gear my alts. I never liked this instance and it is not because I cannot finish it. I will hit 32k Hp on my shadow tank soon and I one shot everything in 20 mins tops with the guildies. **** FP, waste of time for BH comms. I'd rather bang my nuts against a tree than run this!!



PS: my hatred is probably a result of the 99% pugs who have no gear, have never done it in normal, and cannot follow simple instructions.

haliy's Avatar


haliy
12.06.2012 , 02:44 PM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
There are Rakata ear pieces/implants, as well as some good relics. Let the first bosses drop it.
No... The loot table is fine just the way it is.

Lets take a look at the drops from every single boss in the other FP's and compare them with the drops with LI

Esseles:
  • Columi Bracers
  • Tionese Belt & Ear
  • Energized Legs

Battle of Ilum:
  • Columi Offhand
  • Tionese Bracers & Ear
  • Energized Helmet

Maelstrom Prison:
  • Columi boots
  • Tionese belt
  • Energized gloves

Directive 7:
  • Columi Pants
  • Tionese Bracers
  • Energized chest
  • Relic (124 rating)

Taral V summary:
  • Columi Hands
  • Tionese implant
  • Energized boots
  • Relic (124 rating)

False emperor
  • Columi Chest
  • Tionese Gloves, Offhand, and Implant

Kaon Under Siege:
  • Columi headgear
  • Tionese mainhand, ranged offhand
  • Xenotech gloves & waist

Now lets look at Lost island:
  • Rakata Chest
  • Columi boots, Pants, Mainhand
  • Relic (126 rating)

No where did i see lost island droping a single peice of Tionese but only Columi or the Rakata chest. No where did i see the normal HM's drop a Rakata peice. Regular HM's only drop columi off the last boss compared to Lost islands every boss except for the last which drops the Rakata chest.

From a flashpoint viewpoint - Lost Island already drops beter gear than all the other HM FP's. Lost island is not an operation, its a Tier2 flashpoint which means it will be significantly harder than the tier 1's. With a cordinated team, this flashpoint is easy to finish. If you are having trouble with it, master SM Lost Island and then come back to HM when you feel confident.
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GalaxyStrong's Avatar


GalaxyStrong
12.06.2012 , 04:38 PM | #257
The rewards drops on Lost Island SUCK.

All bosses with the exception of Dr. Lorrick drop crap. it's all Columi equipment and that stuff is worthless at this point as far as gear progression goes due to obvious fact that 95% of the players doing Lost Island ALREADY HAVE THAT STUFF!!! So, a smart person only does LI until he or she gets their Columi MainHand & Rakata Armor after that you should never return their ever again. BTW KAON's last boss now drops the Terisa Elite Mount and what mount does Dr. Lorrick drop........NOTHING!

Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I talked with Jesse Sky (Lead Flashpoints and Operations Designer) about the difficulty of Lost Island and its rewards, and he shared his insight about these questions.

He mentioned that Lost Island is balanced very tightly for a group in Tionese-quality gear, but that because the boss mechanics are heavily execution-based, many players prefer to overgear for it. Small mistakes can easily wipe the group, so bringing Ops level gear is great insurance, even if it isn't required. The loot quality reflects this - players who take the risk of going in with Tionese and Columi gear will be rewarded. Players with Ops level gear are likely there for the Black Hole Commendations right now.

That's not to say that we won't be re-examining gear progression going forward. It just happened that when Lost Island was released (1.2), it made sense to us to offer new players and alternate route to the Rakata chest and Columi main hand while infusing the weekly Flashpoint missions with a bit more challenge for players who had geared past most Flashpoints.
Jesse Sky is a MORON!

Tionese Gear!!! are you smoking CRACK!!!!

Maybe you could do that if you were part of the FREAKING A-TEAM! Other wise, it's suicide PERIOD!
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Robocles
12.06.2012 , 04:53 PM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by GalaxyStrong View Post
what mount does Dr. Lorrick drop..
Lhosan Thunderbolt

Quote: Originally Posted by GalaxyStrong View Post
Maybe you could do that if you were part of the FREAKING A-TEAM! Other wise, it's suicide PERIOD!
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.06.2012 , 05:18 PM | #259
GalaxyStrong, you're overstating the difficulty of HM LI.

Are you on Begeren Colony? If you have mumble or ventrilo, I'd be happy to teach you how to run it cleanly, just send me a PM.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.06.2012 , 05:23 PM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by haliy View Post
No... The loot table is fine just the way it is.

Lets take a look at the drops from every single boss in the other FP's and compare them with the drops with LI

No where did i see lost island droping a single peice of Tionese but only Columi or the Rakata chest. No where did i see the normal HM's drop a Rakata peice. Regular HM's only drop columi off the last boss compared to Lost islands every boss except for the last which drops the Rakata chest.

From a flashpoint viewpoint - Lost Island already drops beter gear than all the other HM FP's. Lost island is not an operation, its a Tier2 flashpoint which means it will be significantly harder than the tier 1's. With a cordinated team, this flashpoint is easy to finish. If you are having trouble with it, master SM Lost Island and then come back to HM when you feel confident.
Ugh no, right now the non final bosses of Tier 1 HM FP drop Columi earpieces/implants and Exotech, along with some relic, so every boss could drop something useful to tionese groups. But LI need columi to beat for most of the people, so columi(except MH) drops are useless to them.