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Class Feedback


Daellia's Avatar


Daellia
07.16.2012 , 03:27 PM | #21
Oh, now THAT is just opening a can of worms...

Other classes perceive us a weak, particularly in PvP.

I myself perceive us (all specs, actually) as ungainly and awkward in many ways. We're not necessary underpowered (though the sims show we're a solid 10-12% behind several other classes), but many of our mechanics just feel unwieldy, as if they are a rough draft of a more finished product. Examples are:
  • Wrath only being useful on CD every 15 seconds, despite having a proc rate that means it's almost always up within a couples seconds of use.
  • Reverberating Force not having the base filler for the spec included in its buff (which just feels incomplete).
  • Corruption being based around burning GCDs on Consumption, dropping their own HP to maintain efficiency. A more elegant solution would be to simply have Innervate restore Force on tick or on crit tick (either with an ICD, or more fluidly a lower amount on every crit or tick).
  • The AC being based around mobility and avoidance as its survivability mechanism, but having a solid delay on its knockback and all 3 specs with extremely limited mobile DPS (much of which is due to the lack of a ranged "basic" attack).
  • All damage specs having border-line Force sustainability issues, also due to the lack of a free "basic" attack. Other classes can moderate their use of resource-consuming abilities and weave in more basic attacks if they need to use resources on utility. Sorcs simply have a limited amount of "excess" Force, which is an inverse function of fight length in most cases, and that's it. Most specs don't really have much in the way of options for regening Force. Add to this the lack of a rapid-regeneration CD (akin to Vent Heat or Adrenaline Probe), and there are issues.
  • The lack of a burst mitigation CD really augments the PvP view of Sorcs as extremely squishy and easy burst kills. If we're not gunna have the armor, and mobility is going to be so easy to negate, we need an emergency mitigation cooldown.

The list is more extensive than that, but those are the key points.

Edit: Thank you CMs for posting this before I lost the ability to respond to it. Maybe without Zoeller around, y'all will be willing to take a bit more advice and input from your community...
Even Angels must kill from time to time... ~Kaedis

Suzina's Avatar


Suzina
07.16.2012 , 03:32 PM | #22
Percieved by others as short-term, squishy, healers best at huttball games.
I percieve myself as an AOE healer.
Member of Bane Fleet

nezitx's Avatar


nezitx
07.16.2012 , 03:44 PM | #23
Madness (PVE):
1. I think others view this spec as average DPS in the raid environment. No real utility except being able to throw out an odd heal/shield.
2. I found madness incredibly boring to play on raids. It's just a very simple spec and I don't think that a really good player and an average player will differ much on this class because it's so easy to master.

Lightning (PVE)
1. I think others view this spec as average DPS in the raid environment with good AOE damage.
2. While I like that lightning has more to do than madness, it feels chaotic and disconnected from a central "lightning" theme.
Nezy - 50 Marauder (main)
Nez - 50 Operative (alt)
Nezix - First 50 Sorcerer on Vrook Lamar. (retired)

iRedRIng's Avatar


iRedRIng
07.16.2012 , 03:46 PM | #24
PVP

1. Sorcs are the squishiest class in the game and when focused have no cooldowns to save them. A very good pick for a first target in a warzone.

2. Healing: Sorcs can do the highest hps of any of the three healers if they are left alone. However, in pvp being left alone as a sorc healer rarely, if ever, happens. In order to get the ability to kite people as a sorc healer, I have to go half way up the lightning tree. This lowers my healing by quite a bit. In the 21/20/0 spec I currently use for ranked pvp, to get the utility I need to stay alive, I lose my aoe heal, 6 percent willpower, 2 percent damage reduction, 2 percent increase to total healing, and 6 percent bonus healing. Either sorcs need a defensive cooldown, better kiting abilities, or innervate needs to be changed back to where it no grants a consumption at no health cost. Given the change to how force bending works and how the double proc from force bending was fixed in 1.3, sorc healing has been significantly decreased. Adding the fact that a full healing sorc must hurt itself to regain force really hurts in pvp when being focus fired.

I do not believe much needs to be done to put sorc healers in a good spot overall as a healer. Just 1 maybe 2 minute changes to survivability would put sorcs in line with other healers.

Dps: In ranked pvp sorcs do not have a way to spec into burst damage. This makes them a poor choice as a dps class for a rated team. The only reason someone would take a sorcerer dps would be for utility purposes only. Having a sorc in huttball makes your team much better. Sorcs can also spec into a nice insta cc whirlwind and with full madness can have a 30 meter 2 sec root on a 9 sec cd. All of which can be very nice additions to a team. However, many teams are choosing either a second marauder or powertech over a sorcerer because since the sorc has next to no survivability, the utility gain is minimal as the sorc is probably going to spend a lot of the game behind the force field. Most teams would rather have the extra survivability and utility of a marauder or the extra damage of a powertech over a sorcerer anyday.

RedhawkFG's Avatar


RedhawkFG
07.16.2012 , 03:48 PM | #25
Hi everyone,


1. How do you think your Sorcerer spec is perceived by other classes?

I have to say I really don't care what other people think of the Sorc. Their opinions matter not in the slightest as to my enjoyment of the class.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I'm quite fond of it. I have two sorcs, one Lightning spec (I'll flip to Madness for PVP, but I play Lightning for PVE) and one Corruption (PVE-only). In my opinion, with no numbers to back this up, Madness feels fine for PVP. As a DOT class, mobility is high, which is essential in PVP. There's enough damage floating around to not make me feel completely useless. However, I am concerned that one spell shuts down a Madness sorc's DPS cold.

Cleanse.

No DOTs, no damage.

Corruption is a very fun healspec and I enjoy it a great deal. I put out nice healing numbers, my Purple Piddle Puddle of Healing works quite nicely, and when I'm on the move I've got my bubble and my insta-cast heal. Sure, they don't hit for a lot, but so far (Heroic flashpoints and lesser content) it's served me well.

Lightning can hit like a truck, and I played an Elemental shaman in WoW so a Lightning-spec sorcerer felt quite natural to me. They do suffer in the mobility department, having only a DOT and a Force-eating Shock to use while you have to move. But I do like the proc-based system giving some flexibility to the turret-like nature of the spec. Bubble to add some longevity, some off-spec healing if I really get up the creek without a paddle, and reasonably good DPS numbers (I presume. I lack the data to do any sort of a worthwhile comparison).

Trispast's Avatar


Trispast
07.16.2012 , 03:58 PM | #26
My sorceror is currently 0/25/16 and primarily used for pve.
I have played healing and will include impressions, but that was pre 1.2

1. How do you think your Sorcerer spec is perceived by other classes?
I don't think anyone notices the difference between my spec and the standard lightning madness hybrid spec.

Healing: Very sought after for raiding for multiple target healing.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?
My dps spec is fun to play, lots of complexities and quick decision making but not the best single target damage. Multitarget damage is great for doing dailies.

Healing: Fairly boring and not punishing for errors, I haven't done it enough to comment on the 1.2 changes, but I don't remember having force issues and would often dps between heals. I enjoyed that dual threat aspect as it broke up the whack a mole monotony that is standard mmo healing.

TheLordMaster's Avatar


TheLordMaster
07.16.2012 , 04:01 PM | #27
How I perceive the class
  • Strong capable healers but cast times are to long which leads to being to easily interrupted in pvp.
  • All DPS specs for PvP are lacking burst damage and overall damage.
  • All specs lack survivability in PvP.
  • Sustained PvE DPS is good with the 1/12/28 spec.
  • Consumption taking health is a ******** mechanic and kills us big time in pvp.
  • Extremely fun class to play.
How Others pereive the class
  • Extremely capable healers if left alone. Prime target as a healer to kill in pvp.
  • Non-threat in DPS spec.
List of PvP Concerns
  • Static Barrier - Was extremely good when the game first came out and could take multiple hits and was the biggest concern from other classes because they couldn't kill us easily and we could nuke/heal. Now it is pathetic and takes maybe 1 hit if were lucky.
  • Force sprint - Relies to much on other people. Is subject to snares, slows, stuns, and gap closers (leaps). Needs to be immune to CC/Leaps while sprinting in my opinion.
  • Overload Knock Back - to small of a knockback range. EASILY countered by gap closers. Electric Bindings is to far in the Lightning tree and should quite honestly just be included with overload normally. Another suggestion would to have overload put all gap closers on cooldown.
  • Our cast times are to easily interrupted. Our cast times are to long. Also melee cant be interrupted but we can. Can our cast times be shortened so it actually takes skill to interrupt or can we have a disarm are lockdown to prevent melee from using skills?
  • Lack of Burst damage - Our burst damage comes from the lightning tree but lacks the required mobility for PvP.
  • Damage over time skills - Tick for to little damage and tick way to slowly. Seriously, 18 seconds on affliction is way to long to fights don't last near that long. Crushing darkness is to long as well. Can these duration's be reduced (ideally to half) so that they tick faster and can produce damage. Our dots can also be purged NEGATING our damage. Reducing the duration helps to get more damage in before they are purged.
  • The old chain lightning wrath hybrid spec - In all honestly this spec needs to be brought back. 30% chance on spamming LS is way to low of a chance to get Chain Lightning to be instant cast. Wrath procing chain lightning would be a great spec if other changes aren't going to happen.
  • Heal cast times to long to easily interrupted.
Closing Thoughts
  • I have an assault vanguard, a marauder, a juggernaut, and a healing operative and I can say without a doubt the sorcerer feels far weaker then them all.
Additional Suggestions
  • Color crystals in off hand change the color of force lightning. Think this would be a cool suggestion.
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< Infinite Darkness >
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Giondi's Avatar


Giondi
07.16.2012 , 04:08 PM | #28
Corruption PVE

1. I think lots of people (some even play Sorcerers) think that the change to Force Surge gimped our resource management since we now have to pay life when we need to use Consumption. People still seem to be glad to see me in PUGs, though.

2. I love it. I was a Holy Priest in WoW for years (yes, even in ICC), so I'm used to choosing between longish casts (Heal and Dark Infusion) with good resource efficiency and faster heals that are less efficient (Flash Heal and Dark Heal), and I love that we get a channeled heal for times when we only have a second to stand still (last boss in D7 when you have the claw, for example). Overall, I think it's a very strong spec.
Quote: Originally Posted by Bedwarmer View Post
Dear Dps; I assure you that you were, in fact, nowhere remotely close to "One heal from soloing it."
Every MMO forum in under 30 seconds.

Smartie's Avatar


Smartie
07.16.2012 , 04:09 PM | #29
1.) In raid terms this is one of the most chosen classes and therefore never has a problem getting groups. Ranged dps is also preferred in most situations lost island being a rime example.

2.) I hear many ppl saying in DPS terms this class is under powered I however agree and disagree. With Lightning spec and the correct build it is impossible to run out of force but on a boss encounter during a raid the madness dot spec will always beat it when wearing the same gear. This is offset by the fact lightning has the best aoe in the game and can quickly dispatch mobs without problem this doesn't change the fact that ultimately over long fights you are at the mercy of your crit proccing your big attacks due to their excessive charge times but unfortunately this has an excessive exclusion time dealing a double wammy of less dps and less playability. In short to sort this class simply remove the can't happen more than once every so many seonds on lightning barrage and chain lightnings proc.Remeber they are only activated by crits from affliction and force lightning strike and even with crit stacked its still only a 1 in 3 chance this serverely handy caps the class. All sorceror specs are completely exposed in pvp and require revisiting.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
07.16.2012 , 04:32 PM | #30
oops, sorry.... thought you wanted feedback.

1. others perceive us as being the best healers for PvE, but I think operative/scoundrel healers are the best in terms of resouce managment, emergency heals, and can easily out heal when not all 8 people are stacked in the HoT tub.

2. Think this class is very unfun to play as a healer due to the lack of a proper resource managment system

The resource managament of healers is pretty much non-existant. We have a limited number of option of how to refil our health after using consumption, and all of them are just forms of misplaying:

a) we acn use rejuvinate on ourselves, giving ourself the armor buff that should always be on the tank
b) we can place an aoe heal near us, which is bad in many of the fights where we need to be healing a tank at range
c) we overheal ourselves (or cleanse needlessly) with any of the remaining abilities.
_________________________
rant

Either un-nerf us, so our proc actually means somserhitng more than a measly 2 force per second boost for 10 seconds, or give us something like diagnostic scan.

I dont mind the fact that we have nothing in the form of emergency or burst heals, but at least make our resource managment as fun and functional as other classes, considering that was the onluy thing fun about healing as a sorc before 1.2.

now, whenever i get that luittle red buff I just think to myself... so I have to lose 12% (or more) of my left, just to come up 20 force... and if I am at 20% or below there is no way for me to get more force at all... even with the buff.


not to mention we were robbed of a level 47 skill (sacrafice) that we never got back...

thanks for making this thread for me to vent. Now to complain about the shadow tanking nerfs....