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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.09.2013 , 07:34 AM | #5161
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Mr. Hood's said a couple of time he's not allowed to say. Sometimes I think we make him feel upset by constantly asking.
But you know what he should do? Print out and pile up all the requests, then throw them at the people preventing him from talking.
IT'S SNOWING.
Slap them with a fish, he should, and talk about it anyways. No, seriously, gag orders make sense here and there, they're just seriously annoying if you're dying to know more.
That said, I really REALLY enjoy the Smuggler storyline so far. Way better than the slightly sappy Consular one. My Captain and Corso do have a great chemistry and the flirt options with female NPCs he's merely shrugged off as 'meh'...

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.09.2013 , 11:54 AM | #5162
"Cough" Got two replies from H.Hood to my tweets this morning.

Basically he seems really, genuinely nice (!), thought our suggestions in the Suggestion Box were "good stuff" (in his own words) and thanked us for providing them. I had tweeted him the link to that thread.

Post away in the other thread, if there's anything else you can think of that would improve the companion and/or romance dynamics and you feel like letting it out. I'd like this thread to stay alive for a little while, but then again I think our suggestions are briliant already, so it's hard to top that. :P

Now, finally, time for some more Smuggler action. <3

Lillark's Avatar


Lillark
01.09.2013 , 09:31 PM | #5163
Boiware Austin is NOT Bioware. It is a separate entity under EA that has not had anything to do with the other Bioware games, only SWTOR. The only reason they did straight relationships separate from SGR's was because the management of BioWare Austin does not like them. It makes no sense for them to have been done at a seperate time otherwise. Ask Bethesda or real BioWare (Edmonton) how they handled them in Skyrim, Mass Effect, etc. They are giving us just enough with Makeb to show they are doing "Something" to comply with EA's edictt that SGR's be added to the game and that's it. If you seriously think they will improve our options anytime soon after that, go take a look at the Female Flirts thread(s) and it will be clear that the management of BW-A is determined to keep SWTOR a straight male focused game.

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
01.09.2013 , 10:30 PM | #5164
Quote: Originally Posted by Lillark View Post
Boiware Austin is NOT Bioware. It is a separate entity under EA that has not had anything to do with the other Bioware games, only SWTOR. The only reason they did straight relationships separate from SGR's was because the management of BioWare Austin does not like them. It makes no sense for them to have been done at a seperate time otherwise. Ask Bethesda or real BioWare (Edmonton) how they handled them in Skyrim, Mass Effect, etc. They are giving us just enough with Makeb to show they are doing "Something" to comply with EA's edictt that SGR's be added to the game and that's it. If you seriously think they will improve our options anytime soon after that, go take a look at the Female Flirts thread(s) and it will be clear that the management of BW-A is determined to keep SWTOR a straight male focused game.
I always have a chuckle when Skyrim is mentioned with regards to SGR. Sure, they handled it in a completely no nonsense kind of way, but that was because there was pretty much nothing in it - less work, maybe, because they didn't have to worry about gender flags.

In Skyrim, you wear a particular amulet and that allows you to go...

<PC walks up to, NPC and initiates a conversation>
NPC: Hello stranger, I see you're wearing the amulet of Mara! You're available, right?
PC: I am yes, do you want to marry me?
NPC: Yes, I will marry you.
PC: Goodie, meet me here, we'll get married.
<travel to the chapel, a short marriage scene, NPC dashes off home>

The reason is that, supposedly, the Nords of Skyrim are practical about these things. Members of other races will marry you too, I suppose picking up the tradition from the Nords. You can do this even with NPCs you are meeting for the very first time when you initiate conversation with them.

This is not the kind of "romance" I want to see in SWTOR.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

Lillark's Avatar


Lillark
01.09.2013 , 11:42 PM | #5165
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
I always have a chuckle when Skyrim is mentioned with regards to SGR. Sure, they handled it in a completely no nonsense kind of way, but that was because there was pretty much nothing in it - less work, maybe, because they didn't have to worry about gender flags.

In Skyrim, you wear a particular amulet and that allows you to go...

<PC walks up to, NPC and initiates a conversation>
NPC: Hello stranger, I see you're wearing the amulet of Mara! You're available, right?
PC: I am yes, do you want to marry me?
NPC: Yes, I will marry you.
PC: Goodie, meet me here, we'll get married.
<travel to the chapel, a short marriage scene, NPC dashes off home>

The reason is that, supposedly, the Nords of Skyrim are practical about these things. Members of other races will marry you too, I suppose picking up the tradition from the Nords. You can do this even with NPCs you are meeting for the very first time when you initiate conversation with them.

This is not the kind of "romance" I want to see in SWTOR.
The point was that they did not separate straight and SGR into two different experiences. They did them equal and identicle for both groups and no gender or orientation experienced anything the rest did not.

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
01.10.2013 , 12:18 AM | #5166
Quote: Originally Posted by Lillark View Post
The point was that they did not separate straight and SGR into two different experiences. They did them equal and identicle for both groups and no gender or orientation experienced anything the rest did not.
Yes, you are right. The experiences were indeed equal. Equally bad, that is. Not saying that I didn't enjoy Skyrim, because I did and I still start it up to play from time to time - but honestly... I can't even call what was in the game "romance" as it was devoid of romance. Heck, The Sims 3 has more romance in it than Skyrim.

It is unfair to compare Skyrim to SWTOR, they are completely different experiences. Not defending Bioware here, but there's a lot more work involved in the romances in SWTOR than there was in Skyrim.

(And can I just say, there's also a lot less variety in the voice work in Skryim. I can't tell you how many times I went "Oh, that's Claudia Christian! (Aela) And that's Claudia Christian! (Legate Rikke) And there's Claudia Christian again! (Adrianne Avenicci, and anyone else using the female commander style voice)" while playing Skyrim... Not that I have problems with hearing Claudia Christian's voice everywhere... oh that's what's wrong with SWTOR! No Claudia Christian!)
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
01.10.2013 , 02:27 AM | #5167
Hehe, after you play several different classes on both factions, you'll start to notice a lot of the same actors being reused, I have heard a few do a least 3 characters.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

SirGladiator's Avatar


SirGladiator
01.10.2013 , 02:53 AM | #5168
The point of comparing SWTOR (or any other game) to Skyrim in terms of romance, is to point out that Skyrim did it right, they let you romance anyone you want to, and that the reason they did it is because its easier to do that than to put artificial gender-limitations on any given romance. Obviously Skyrim's romances were not 'deep' by any remote stretch of the imagination, but if you've played previous games in the series you know that there werent ANY at all, so it was a huge improvement over nothing. Nothing, that sounds familiar...oh, because that's what we got in SWTOR . Seriously though, the point is you have to go out of your way to keep people from romancing anyone they want to, you have to put in gender checks, and Skyrim didn't, that's what everybody likes about it, not that it had the world's best written romances, just that we get to actually enjoy what's there, unlike in SWTOR where the romances may be awesome for all I know, but I wouldn't know, because they don't let me enjoy them, so that's a lot worse than Skyrim regardless of how poorly written you think the romances were. Skyrim, DA2, DD, the Sims, etc. thats the future of gaming-romances, because that way everybody wins. You get to romance whoever you want to, and its easier on the folks that make the game to do it that way, everybody is happy.

Obviously there are still some holdouts, its annoying to have a great game like SWTOR ruined by somebody who doesn't like the idea of my female Knight (who I've been playing the most recently) romancing Kira so much that he literally spent time and money putting in gender checks to prevent it, time and money he could've spent actually making the game better in some way. Thats very annoying, thats why we want them to get rid of those gender checks, so we can enjoy the romances the same as anybody else. And thats why we're happy with games like Skyrim, because even poorly written romances, that you're actually allowed to enjoy, are better than the best written romance of all time that you aren't allowed to play at all.

Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
01.10.2013 , 03:12 AM | #5169
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
The point of comparing SWTOR (or any other game) to Skyrim in terms of romance, is to point out that Skyrim did it right, they let you romance anyone you want to, and that the reason they did it is because its easier to do that than to put artificial gender-limitations on any given romance. Obviously Skyrim's romances were not 'deep' by any remote stretch of the imagination, but if you've played previous games in the series you know that there werent ANY at all, so it was a huge improvement over nothing. Nothing, that sounds familiar...oh, because that's what we got in SWTOR . Seriously though, the point is you have to go out of your way to keep people from romancing anyone they want to, you have to put in gender checks, and Skyrim didn't, that's what everybody likes about it, not that it had the world's best written romances, just that we get to actually enjoy what's there, unlike in SWTOR where the romances may be awesome for all I know, but I wouldn't know, because they don't let me enjoy them, so that's a lot worse than Skyrim regardless of how poorly written you think the romances were. Skyrim, DA2, DD, the Sims, etc. thats the future of gaming-romances, because that way everybody wins. You get to romance whoever you want to, and its easier on the folks that make the game to do it that way, everybody is happy.

Obviously there are still some holdouts, its annoying to have a great game like SWTOR ruined by somebody who doesn't like the idea of my female Knight (who I've been playing the most recently) romancing Kira so much that he literally spent time and money putting in gender checks to prevent it, time and money he could've spent actually making the game better in some way. Thats very annoying, thats why we want them to get rid of those gender checks, so we can enjoy the romances the same as anybody else. And thats why we're happy with games like Skyrim, because even poorly written romances, that you're actually allowed to enjoy, are better than the best written romance of all time that you aren't allowed to play at all.
Just to point out DA2 uses gender checks, as does ME3.
For a good romance you need gender checks so that both dialogue and interactions between the toons remainrealistic.
As an example how removing gender checks can lead to physical humour I only need to point to the modded ME2 romances, due to the different height of MShep and FShep all scenes that require interaction look weird ranging from simply bad (Miranda) to hilarious (Thane).

The gender checks in SW:TOR are there so that you can actually have a romance with dialogue and interactions, without them all you get is the Fable or Skyrim style of hookup. So those gender checks do not exist to prevent you from romancing whoever you want, but for the romance to actually exist. And once SGRAs with companions are coming we will benefit from those gender checks because then Corso will (similar to all the bisexual male LIs before him) treat my male smuggler like a man during the romance and not like a girl as Anomen does, if you simply remove the gender checks in BG2.

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
01.10.2013 , 04:25 AM | #5170
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
The point of comparing SWTOR (or any other game) to Skyrim in terms of romance, is to point out that Skyrim did it right, they let you romance anyone you want to, and that the reason they did it is because its easier to do that than to put artificial gender-limitations on any given romance. Obviously Skyrim's romances were not 'deep' by any remote stretch of the imagination, but if you've played previous games in the series you know that there werent ANY at all, so it was a huge improvement over nothing.
Gender is irrelevant to marriage in Skyrim. They did it the way they did because it was a way of checking a box with minimal effort. Forgive me for being cynical, but it's true. If I'm not mistaken, there's never any reference to your character's gender in any dialogue pertaining to the marriage. (I just checked, and Alea refers to my Dark Elf as "dear" and "love" and "you", but treats her no differently (than when they weren't married) in any dialogue that doesn't pertain to the perks of being married or greetings.)

There's a huge difference between that and the romances in SWTOR.

Quote:
Nothing, that sounds familiar...oh, because that's what we got in SWTOR . Seriously though, the point is you have to go out of your way to keep people from romancing anyone they want to, you have to put in gender checks, and Skyrim didn't, that's what everybody likes about it, not that it had the world's best written romances, just that we get to actually enjoy what's there, unlike in SWTOR where the romances may be awesome for all I know, but I wouldn't know, because they don't let me enjoy them, so that's a lot worse than Skyrim regardless of how poorly written you think the romances were. Skyrim, DA2, DD, the Sims, etc. thats the future of gaming-romances, because that way everybody wins. You get to romance whoever you want to, and its easier on the folks that make the game to do it that way, everybody is happy.
No. That's wrong. Sure, there is some work in putting in the gender checks in the first place - but there are also checks for race (Watcher Two, for example, has some different dialogue if you're not human), and for those NPCs that aren't class specific, for class as well. Outside of romance, there are instances where an NPC will say something gender specific like "You're more girly than I remember the Red Blade as being" (while he says something different for male IAs, wouldn't know, never played a male IA that far). That's extra effort, sure, but it adds some depth to the dialogue. (Yes, my examples are all going to be from a non-human IA perspective, sorry.)

Also with SWTOR, there are voiced lines on behalf of the PC (in Skyrim, the Dragonborn is mostly mute), lines for SGR have not been recorded yet for SWTOR (at least that's the implication). So if you take the gender checks out, not only will your love interest refer to you by the wrong gender, the PC will not voice his or her lines.

Quote:
Obviously there are still some holdouts, its annoying to have a great game like SWTOR ruined by somebody who doesn't like the idea of my female Knight (who I've been playing the most recently) romancing Kira so much that he literally spent time and money putting in gender checks to prevent it, time and money he could've spent actually making the game better in some way. Thats very annoying, thats why we want them to get rid of those gender checks, so we can enjoy the romances the same as anybody else. And thats why we're happy with games like Skyrim, because even poorly written romances, that you're actually allowed to enjoy, are better than the best written romance of all time that you aren't allowed to play at all.
I think I'd rather them spend some more time personalizing (references to gender, race/species, class, and a voiced PC) the romances to the character, than having generic lines uttered to both genders with a mute PC.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.