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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.27.2012 , 12:39 AM | #4481
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
First, the whole, "BioWare doesn't know what's going on," statement. That is just incredibly silly in my humble opinion. I think they know exactly what is going on with that content and refuse to say a word. Shoot, they talked about Guild Ships recently, so I think their game plan is set.

Secondly, "A few cut scenes then done." I've actually done the OGRs in ToR, and that's part of the reason why I'm fighting for SGRs. It really added a lot for me personally to my experience, especially when carting around Kira or Vector. I thought they were well done and a lot sweeter than I would have thought. It's up to the player to decide if they are worth it or not. I believe the pro-SGR community should have the chance to experience the content was promised.

Third, "Just RP it." Um, no. It's not fair nor right for the players to have to roleplay this. Plus, it's not the same with another player as it is with a companion. Unless the people involved want to roleplay that they are Vette or whatever. Why should SGRs be treated differently from the romance content of the game? Would anyone ask someone to just RP OGRs if SGRs were the only ones in the game? Makes zero sense to me.

Fourth, "Why did you buy this game if they didn't have SGRs in it?" This is just my thought on it. I personally bought the game because my husband enjoyed it and it looked like fun.

Why did they buy it anyways? Simple, they didn't think they would wait over a year just to even know if it was answered. And if anyone has played a BioWare game in the last 10 years, they'd know that it is really apart of the game. This is very different from the way BioWare has treated its customers in the past. This does seem to be par for the course for EA, but I won't get into that.

Fifth, "Just remove all romances." That wouldn't work. Every BW game I've played has had romance options, except for maybe Icewind Dale. So it really is a part of the way they write the stories. Plus, as it has been mentioned, this only comes up when we talk about SGRs. Along with the requests for romance filters.

If someone doesn't like the romance options, they can ignore them. The pro-SGR community wants the opportunity to not only romance the toon they want, but also to ignore the minion if they so choose.

In the end, this is about getting any answer at all. I don't know about most of the posters here, but I wouldn't be complaining regardless of the answer. That's a rather dumb excuse. If this is a primarily adult audience, then they should treat it like such. They shouldn't be afraid of players complaining nor backlash from extreme family groups. They've dealt with both in the past.

So that's what this thread is mostly about now. Trying to get any sort of answer from BioWare, so people can know what to do with their playtime. It's gonna be a busy weekend for me.

Again, if anyone is still trying to write to the press, please let them know that it isn't about why this has not made it into the game yet. This isn't about why it may never come to pass. This is about flat-out demanding an answer from BioWare about this. Makeb is available for pre-order, so we should start getting an answer.

I really hope they address this by the first week of January before I get irritated again. The last time I got irritated with BioWare, I kicked off the email campaign.

Which is still going on my end. Doup begged me to take a few days away from this and it has done me a lot of good. However, I haven't stopped nor will I until BioWare-Austin bucks up and tells us what the hell is going on.

Off-topic: If anyone is going to play DA: O, I'd recommend a rogue unless you want to wait til you get past the scenes in Ostagar. That's when the first rogue and female SGR shows up. However, if you want an all girl party, you'd need to roll a tank unless you want to take your dog around.

And Palar, thanks for the link! I got some great gear out of that and I'll have more stuff for DA2. If anyone is going to play/replay DA: O, make sure you stop by the site linked.
First...agreed. They know what they're planning. Silly to think otherwise. Silly to think plans don't change however as well.

Second...I agree. I loved running through them! It does add more to the game. I just don't think it adds THAT much to the game. It was like a high. After it was done, nothing else happened If there was more to it than a cutscene it'd be great. But even after all that, in any other cutscene it's not evenbrought up. At least from what I've seen. Is there other classes that show something? This is why I think the better idea is more outfits, classes, skills, content that actually gets seen in the leveling process. It's far more lasting.

Third...you're basically RPing it with the NPC.

Fourth...just because it was a part of BW's other games, doesn't mean it has to be a part of ALL their games. Your logic is also just flawed. If BW's games were always OGR, these same complaints of having SGR would likely be in this game.

Fifth...yeah...not for removing content they have. I also think just adding a new companion available through a mission or cartel market is the way to go with it, unless they can allow people to redo all the scenes with their companions. People shouldn't have to reroll just to get a chance they didn't before.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.27.2012 , 12:53 AM | #4482
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Fifth...yeah...not for removing content they have. I also think just adding a new companion available through a mission or cartel market is the way to go with it, unless they can allow people to redo all the scenes with their companions. People shouldn't have to reroll just to get a chance they didn't before.
I would hate for them to add it to the Cartel Market. Extremely unfair. Everyone gets OGRs while people who want SGRs have to pay extra? No way. The concept of 'Pay2Gay' has been bandied about in this thread for ages but it's simply not suitable. There's no way it could be considered equitable with OGRs if it's one or two isolated companions and we have to pay more for them.

I fully agree, nobody should have to recreate to enjoy SGRAs, and there have been lots of options discussed as to how this could be achieved - from opening new companion conversations that can be accessed any time after a critical flirt point, to special gifts that could open up such a conversation option, to free companion tokens that would force the conversation to become available. Personally I think it should be tied into an item in the PC's quarters on their ship so they can call the companion in for a friendly chat.

Unfortunately this also runs smack bang into the same problem we keep experiencing - while a lot of very creative and interesting approaches to this dilemma (and others) have been posited in this thread we have absolutely no contact with Bioware about this. Not even a 'No, we thought of that idea and rejected it - but we can't tell you what we decided to do yet.' Not even a 'Hey, these are all cool ideas and we're taking suggestions into account, sorry we can't tell you anything but don't think we're not listening.' Not even a 'Shut up, feeble SGRA fanbase.' Nothing.

And so here we are, all throwing these extremely tired ideas around and wondering what the heck the point is of any of us being here.
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Vulfey's Avatar


Vulfey
12.27.2012 , 01:26 AM | #4483
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Unfortunately this also runs smack bang into the same problem we keep experiencing - while a lot of very creative and interesting approaches to this dilemma (and others) have been posited in this thread we have absolutely no contact with Bioware about this. Not even a 'No, we thought of that idea and rejected it - but we can't tell you what we decided to do yet.' Not even a 'Hey, these are all cool ideas and we're taking suggestions into account, sorry we can't tell you anything but don't think we're not listening.' Not even a 'Shut up, feeble SGRA fanbase.' Nothing.

And so here we are, all throwing these extremely tired ideas around and wondering what the heck the point is of any of us being here.
Yeah but here's the thing, that actual fact. Do we know what BW are doing? Do you? I don't =( As much as I would love to wallow in the what if's and buts, they've pulled some exemplary chestnuts out in regard to community and content. Not perfect no, but people still moan about WoW and that's a basic "bring me 10 pigs " grind till endgame and a bit "LOOOOOL NOOOOB, your gear is ****" fest. This game doesn't encourage that.

But yeah doc is already gay for me.
“By the Way of the warrior is meant death. The Way of the warrior is death. This means choosing death whenever there is a choice between life and death. It means nothing more than this. It means to see things through, being resolved.” ~ Yamamoto Tsunetomo

Revanchis's Avatar


Revanchis
12.27.2012 , 01:41 AM | #4484
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
This is a good thing. Particularly because you CAN very easily set up a roaming band of marauding lady adventurers if you like. Or a marauding band of gentlemen adventurers (though I suspect that would be less to your taste).
Except, I don't think you can choose to not have Alistair, but apart from him you can have an all female crew. You can't have an all male crew either, since Morrigan is locked in as well, even though she's a horrible human being.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.27.2012 , 01:43 AM | #4485
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
First...agreed. They know what they're planning. Silly to think otherwise. Silly to think plans don't change however as well.
I know plans change. Why can't they tell us this? All we have to go on is old information and hearsay. I could 100% understand if things got dropped/put on hold. What I can't understand is why don't they do this. You know, tell the player base...

Again, they know exactly what is going on. Someone somewhere is just too chicken to talk about it. Crap like the deleted Tweet is proof that they know what is going on. So I'm maintaining that stance.


Quote:
Second...I agree. I loved running through them! It does add more to the game. I just don't think it adds THAT much to the game. It was like a high. After it was done, nothing else happened If there was more to it than a cutscene it'd be great. But even after all that, in any other cutscene it's not evenbrought up. At least from what I've seen. Is there other classes that show something? This is why I think the better idea is more outfits, classes, skills, content that actually gets seen in the leveling process. It's far more lasting.
I thought it added a ton to the game and leveling is where the game really is. The draw of this game is the story, the main reason why I play. So, I don't see why the pro-SGR community should be denied this just because others think it doesn't mean much. I know plenty of other players that love the romance arcs currently.

As I said, I've done the OGRs, and I know nothing else happens. My sniper is level 50, finished with the Vector arc, and raiding. That doesn't matter to me that there currently isn't any follow up. What matters is having this content available for all, as they had promised. Or at least talked about by BW.

The quality of the romances are a matter of opinion that I think the players should be allow to decide for themselves. I thought it was worth every single moment, no matter how it ends.

We've actually gotten a ton of those other things, so they've come first. I don't think that adding SGRs will take away from any future content at all. That seems to be the preferred argument as of late, which I really don't get.

More skills? Not the writing department. More gear? Not the writing team. More classes? I'm not sure where they'd fit, and I doubt they are using the writing team for that at the moment at all. I'd rather they balance and fine tune the classes they have than add another thing else in that department. More Ops? Got a some of those and plenty of coverage of those since Launch. More PvP? See patch 1.6 More races? They at least talked about it.


It's a matter of priorities; for you, more skills and classes are the priority. For me and for others, more story including in the form of SGRs are our priority. So it's really not fair to keep saying, "XYZ is more important!" To many of us, SGRs are what the game is missing. And please stop saying, "It's not worth it, quit asking." Many people play for vastly different reasons. I respect your opinion, but please don't expect us to share it. So may we agree to disagree there?

Quote:
Third...you're basically RPing it with the NPC.
Agreed, but you'd be taking advantage of writing team's hard work, not making up your own. To ask people to do that only for SGRs is uneven. People who want SGRs want to see how BioWare does it. If they wanted to make up their own stories and roleplay them, they would probably play tabletop games or write fan fiction for that. However, BW provides well written characters, so players should be able to take advantage of it since BioWare had promised they could.

Quote:
Fourth...just because it was a part of BW's other games, doesn't mean it has to be a part of ALL their games. Your logic is also just flawed. If BW's games were always OGR, these same complaints of having SGR would likely be in this game.
I would agree, except BioWare already made that promise in Beta. Since they had promised this, it was expected of this game as much as any other recent BW game. My point is that no one should be reduced to roleplay story content that was already promised, unless we hear officially otherwise. Many of us have put various toons on hold until we know what is going on.


Quote:
Fifth...yeah...not for removing content they have. I also think just adding a new companion available through a mission or cartel market is the way to go with it, unless they can allow people to redo all the scenes with their companions. People shouldn't have to reroll just to get a chance they didn't before.
The "remove all romances" comment was based on one of the current arguments going around, not by me.

I'm all about a class reset over a token gay companion. It would be nice for BW to give us any sign. That's why people have toons on hold. You're right; people shouldn't have to reroll. We don't know if they would have to or not. Many of the posters here just quit leveling due to that very uncertainty.

Please show me where I said they should remove existing content. I never ever said that. I also think that SGRs will not take away from anything else currently in existence. If anything, it will add to the game immensely. Most of us do Ops, or PvP or partake in many other forms of content...which doesn't take away from the writing team for the most part.

I also don't think any story or other content has been pushed aside for SGRs. I'm not sure why this mindset seems to persist, other than it's due to it being same sex content. Much of everything else coming before SGRs is proven fact at this point.

Yeah...no. I'm sorry, but Pay2Gay is not a good option. Even if it's available for both genders. As it has been said, if OGRs come for free, than paying for SGRs is not good. It looks horrid, to say the least.

Plus, I hope you saw the quote from David Gaider. He said flat out that re-working an existing companion is cheaper and easier than writing whole new ones. I can't see one new companion ending up in the Cartel Market, much less two.

Again, we're debating the same things we have literally all year. We're after an answer. I've seen these arguments bounce around so much over the last year it's gotten heartbreaking.


We are done being told by various other players that:

  • The romances suck anyways.
  • There always more important things, no matter what.
  • Possible SGRs in Makeb are why there is no expansion to class story.
  • It's a waste to write romances that are SGR.
  • Reason X, Y, Z why it isn't in the game from any non BW employee.
  • It'll make the extreme right wing too upset.
  • EA treats all of it's customers like crap.
  • It'll make the players too angry.
  • Companion X is straight
  • Only a minority wants them.
  • Anyone claims we said it should go ahead of bug fixes.
  • Think of the children!


This right here is why BioWare needs to tell us such. Officially, publicly with no room for doubt. Any answer that comes from Hickman's mouth is what needs to be said. They haven't even said anything directly since March.

Once we can any sort of answer, we'll know where to go from there. And honestly, we just want them to acknowledge that they talked about it once upon a time.

I'm not looking for a yes. I am hoping for one, but I have no idea what to expect at this point.

Most of us could handle a "No" or (just like with the Guild Ships) "Not in the foreseeable future." Most of us would shrug, admit that we at least tried and move on with our game time. Some of us, like me, would stick around. Others I know would be gone and never come back. However, I would at least quit being such a bee in BW's bonnet.

What I am asking, no matter what answer from BW-Austin is:

What is the status of same sex relationships?


What about getting them to answer that question is unreasonable after a year after Launch and 9 months since anything direct was said?

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.27.2012 , 02:02 AM | #4486
Quote: Originally Posted by Vulfey View Post
Yeah but here's the thing, that actual fact. Do we know what BW are doing? Do you? I don't =( As much as I would love to wallow in the what if's and buts, they've pulled some exemplary chestnuts out in regard to community and content. Not perfect no, but people still moan about WoW and that's a basic "bring me 10 pigs " grind till endgame and a bit "LOOOOOL NOOOOB, your gear is ****" fest. This game doesn't encourage that.

But yeah doc is already gay for me.
To be clear I'm not wallowing in ifs and buts, and I'm willing to wait for quality content. My issue is their utter lack of communication about this. Limited communication I can take. It's a hot-button issue and they want to avoid spoilers, I get that, but the only things they've deigned to release have been, with the exception of the Guild Summit, utterly deniable. 'Gabe didn't know what he was talking about as it's not his area' would be extremely easy for them to say if SGRAs aren't in the expansion. Not only that but even the Guild Summit is now completely deniable: they can easily claim that none of that information stands because of staffing changes and so forth.

But they haven't even spoken to us enough to deny anything.

No. I don't know what BW:A is doing. But I do know one thing they're not doing, and that's communicating.

No, you see, I'm not wallowing. I'm angry. And I think every pro-SGRA player has a right to be angry because of that lack of communication. Not having the content in yet, well, there could be many reasons for that, but BW:A is continually insulting us by refusing to tell us anything at all and while they're under no requirement to do so - it's their game, they don't even have to have forums for it if they don't want to - they have no right to reasonably expect us to be anything but angry over this.

When they do put the content in (yes, I still believe they will, making me one of the more optimistic long-term posters here) they hopefully won't expect us to shower them with praise. 'This is great content but it took way too long and you managed the wait horribly' is the very best they should expect as reactions go. And that's only if the content IS great.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.27.2012 , 02:03 AM | #4487
Quote: Originally Posted by Revanchis View Post
Except, I don't think you can choose to not have Alistair, but apart from him you can have an all female crew. You can't have an all male crew either, since Morrigan is locked in as well, even though she's a horrible human being.
Nope, neither is locked in. The overall story requires them but you can do the running around and face-smashing parts without either of them. I usually leave Morrigan out completely and just woo her with gifts in the party camp because she irritates me. Then I don't need to deal with her until the endgame.
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natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.27.2012 , 02:07 AM | #4488
Kioma, you read my mind mate! I am also one of the few remaining optimistic posters, but like you, I'm not satisfied with just hope. They need to speak up. Also, I think they'll make a lot more players angry if they keep silent and just spring this on the player base. The utter quiet is bad enough.

With DA--yep, you can tick Morrigan off enough to get her to leave. And you can choose to get rid of Alistar near the end of the game. Morrigan I liked for her snark, but I always left her at camp for my "goodie-two-shoe" quests.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.27.2012 , 02:11 AM | #4489
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
Kioma, you read my mind mate! I am also one of the few remaining optimistic posters, but like you, I'm not satisfied with just hope. They need to speak up. Also, I think they'll make a lot more players angry if they keep silence and just spring this on the player base. The utter quiet is bad enough.
<nods> This is where we're at, yes. I don't think we're pessimistic at all. In fact I think we're very optimistic. Heck, I'm still paying a subscription even though I'm not playing the game much any more. I pre-ordered the expansion, too; again, optimism.

But we're not going to sit by twiddling our thumbs saying this doesn't get old. It does. We're not even BW:A-bashing, we're making constructive criticism over issues we see with how this company is dealing with this.

Far from being pessimists, I feel we're critical optimists.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.27.2012 , 03:43 AM | #4490
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
*whole lot of stuff deleted to save space*

What about getting them to answer that question is unreasonable after a year after Launch and 9 months since anything direct was said?
You said they shouldnt remove content. I was agreeing with you. Hence the "yeah" But I could see how that comes off differently.

This is BW's first MMO, and thusly they made the first mistake...saying "Yeah, we plan to put it in later."

What they need to do is come out and say "Look. We may or may not. We have no set date for it's arrival if we do add it."

Basically, telling a MMO playerbase you will add anything is the worst thing a MMO publisher can do. They should of said then "It's not in right now. No idea if it will be. Maybe it will."

Just saying "We'll try to get it in" would have players saying almost the same thing now "You said you would, so when?" "We said we'd try." "Same thing!"



Save the "This is what is being added" till they're ready to have it in actual testing.

As for the Pay2Gay option...first, I find it sad people have come up with this term. Second, when I said it, I figured it'd be like the other companion, free to subscribers, f2p purchases the content, so not all would be paying for it.

Though, if it went that route and the subscriber unlocked it, I have no idea if unsubcribing would lock out the companion.

Still not against it, but still don't see how having SGR relation cutscenes with an NPC is worth having it be the deciding factor to an MMO. And truthfully, for those who say they're leaving if it doesn't come, has me thinking they'd leave after they went through all their SGR relations anyways, so why not spend the time on something that will keep those who actually want to play the game, around. Basically know where to spend the resources.

Of course, this could be what they're thinking, and it could be that it's just an item on the "to do list" that keeps getting pushed back.

Though why quit because it isnt here yet, and instead, have that OGR character building up creds, so you can be ready to lavish gifts upon your future companion?