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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Palar's Avatar

12.13.2012 , 09:40 PM | #4041
Quote: Originally Posted by Dire-Wolf View Post
Out of curiosity, have you guys also been campaigning for same gender flirts with quest NPCs or have you just being asking for same gender romances with companion? I'd really love same gender romances with companion, and if that's all BioWare wants to add I'll take it, but I'd also really like to be able to flirt with same gender quest NPCs. I've held off rolling both a Smuggler and an Imperial Agent as I've heard they're pretty flirt heavy classes and I'd like an answer to this before deciding whether or not to roll them.
It's been asked a few times in here - never got clarified, shockingly. Just another thing they should have answered months ago.

Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post

I know it's obnoxious, but I really don't care. I don't care what other people think of this whole thing, I only care about the content that was promised to us. The LGBTQ community has a history of standing up and making people care.
Given that this ... charming person got a response, with that attitude, maybe obnoxious is what we need to be. Norr only knows that a year of patience got us diddly, after all. (edit - just not as obnoxious as the 1st anno Screenshot thread)

Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
I'll be writing up a follow up letter to GLAAD this weekend. It'll be polite for sure, since they are really trying to help us.

Not like I can do much else at the moment. I've got another wisdom tooth extraction in the morning. Joy.
Arrghh... my sympathies.

natashina's Avatar

12.13.2012 , 10:39 PM | #4042

Edit: Not talking about this here. I've sent a bunch of PMs though.

I'll just leave this here and let you guys decide. Make sure you scan this thread.

I'm pretty pissed off now.

They've got to be kidding, right?

Revanchis's Avatar

12.13.2012 , 11:12 PM | #4043
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
There's was thread dedicated to that, but it seems to be missing.

It probably got locked and redirected here at some point.

Personally, I'd love same gender flirts as well. My main is a female sniper and didn't get a lot of flirts at all outside of Vector (the love interest for lady toons.) That conversation has come up before though.

The male Smuggler is very very flirt heavy and caused a few players to abandon those characters. It was so bad that it caused some of the male gay members of the community to feel really angry. I don't blame them. It's not just lack of same gender companion romances, but also same gender flirts too.

Edit: Nevermind. I have an awesome husband. Doup is the man!
Ya, that was a thread by Ulain. I think it's just buried in the suggestion box.

natashina's Avatar

12.13.2012 , 11:15 PM | #4044
Quote: Originally Posted by Revanchis View Post
Ya, that was a thread by Uluain. I think it's just buried in the suggestion box.
It's older than Hades, but I found it:

We might get in trouble for necro'ing such an old thread, but there is a precedence. If anyone is feeling froggy, they could try to necro this and/or start a new topic. That was it for same gender flirting when I looked. Amusingly enough, it was in the Story and Lore thread.

Oh and thanks for the well wishes! It's gonna be a long weekend with my teeth. At least I should be healed by Yule.

natashina's Avatar

12.13.2012 , 11:37 PM | #4045
I'm firing off another mail to Joveth Gonzales as well as Allison Berryman. I would suggest everyone do the same.

It might not help, but I've got a few choice words regarding this thread and how it's being handled.

Yep, that follow up letter to GLAAD is going to be written tomorrow night.

This is so damned stupid, I'm running out of words.

I told you BioWare...I'm a housewife with a lot of free time and nothing to lose.

Edit: Wow, I'm on my second document on my computer for my saved posts. At this rate, I'll hit page 3 by the weekend.

Palar's Avatar

12.13.2012 , 11:49 PM | #4046
Thinking about it... "Hi, still haven't got a response from last time... clearly, that's an oversight and not you dodging the issue yet again" - still working on some polite wording.

natashina's Avatar

12.13.2012 , 11:53 PM | #4047
I'll send you the PM that I wrote to them. I was pretty polite given the circumstances.

Edit: Remember, these guys have bosses to report to. If we don't get an answer, don't shoot the messenger. It just means we're gonna have to get louder and possibly start writing to more people directly.

Sent my remarks directly to Mr. Gonzales' email as well.

edit: Don't bother; it got bounced back to me.

Edit #2: While trying to find a direct contact for Jeff Hickman, I ran across yet another news site we can share this with.

They did an interview with Jeff Hickman on August 23rd. They seem to care about this game, so I figure it's worth a shot.

natashina's Avatar

12.14.2012 , 12:10 AM | #4048
I just sent this off. I also sent this to Darth Hater as well.

Almost forgot to pass along contact info!

I hit up as too.

Told ya I was going to start emailing everyone.

To the writing staff of rpg staff,

My name is Real Name. I'm 33 years old and I live in Real Locale. I'm an avid gamer and advocate for equal rights. I'm coming to you with a concern regarding Electronic Arts/BioWare and their claimed inclusion of the LGBTQ community. Forgive that this is more in the form of a question rather than an article.

I am a member of the that community for the game Star Wars: The Old Republic. I helped coordinate and write a FAQ for the thread called, "Same Gender Relationship Clarifications" , in the Story and Lore section of the ToR forums. I go by the forum handle Natashina.

Last September a promise was made by Stephen Reid, former Senior Online Communication Manager, stating that same gender romances were coming in The Old Republic. This was statement was used by the moderators at the The Old Republic forums until late September of this year.

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

Here's the link to the current incarnation of this thread:

The FAQ the posters and myself created has tons of quotes and links to back up not only BioWare/EA's stance on same gender romance content in this game, but also in general.

If you are curious, here is the link.

This thread started on January 17th, looking for more clarity on the content that was promised. This has gone through several incarnations over the year, usually locked at about 100 pages. Currently, the latest incarnation is up to 399 pages. (sidenote: this was earlier)

Over the months, the LGBT ToR community has tried every polite, respectful and patient way to try to get further information regarding a possible time frame.

Up until about two months ago, any and all other threads with this topic got closed and redirected to this back part of the forums. There is now one other thread about this topic in the General Forums.

The next official update was in March at BioWare's ToR Guild Summit on March 6th, made by Daniel Erickson.

This is an interesting one because it sort of lit up, and we didn't honestly -- if we should give an update on it every single time -- We've always said the same thing with it, which is that it's coming, and it's coming with story updates. And we totally understand when people hear "soon", um, maybe I should have put the TM next to it that, "writer Soon"? The writers have a much, much larger lead time than you would expect, and we wanna do any of this stuff right. We heard suggestions, and we do read the stuff, and let's talk a little about the stuff we were not willing to do. We were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling.

Also from Mr. Erickson at the Guild Summit:

When we do this, we wanna do it right, we wanna do it with the characters that make sense, that we always knew that we wanted to do it for those, so you guys know and we've talked about it before, it ended up being a budget and scheduling issue. There are romance arcs that we wanted to do that didn't make it in the game, we knew which characters (I'm not gonna tell you)... [some audience joking about characters] So the short answer is, it's never changed, it's still coming, it's coming when full story comes, and when is full story coming? This year. So we are still on track.

That was over eight months ago. Since then, both of those gentlemen have left the company. BioWare has had no official word since and the silence is rather deafening. They have never come onto the forum boards and said anything directly to the players. They also have not made a public announcement since then. Mr. Erickson's quote was never officially transcribed to the ToR forums. I got the transcript from the site Darth Hater instead.

After the founders of BioWare left as well as Mr. Reid and Mr. Erickson, we've been trying to found out if the content is still coming into the game. We've tried the following:

*Private Messages to Moderators and Developers on the forum boards.
*Twitter and Facebook.
*Email and Snail mail.
*"Ask the Devs" and other such developer "Q&As"
*The Livestream cast, with over 25% of the questions related to same gender romance content and not a single question addressed.

All with no results.

Also, on September 7th, the PvP developer named Gabe Amatangelo made very brief off-hand comment on a video about SGRs:

Hall Hood, current lead writer for ToR, made the following Tweet that evening.

"Hall Hood @hallhood (1 of 2) To all the folks who have been expressing interest in SGRs, here is the official word from Gabe Amatangelo..."

It was deleted within hours of it being put up. Members of the forums including myself managed to get that copied before it got deleted. I was going to put it into the SGR FAQ for further information regarding the subject.

Frankly, many of us are at our wits end. We've seen many articles as of late with EA talking about their pride in including the LGBT gaming community and providing content for them. Yet for The Old Republic, there has been nothing but complete silence.

Here's the article in question:

The correction notice at the bottom came about after the players wrote in to the editor.

The last time a moderator even came out and spoke to the thread was on September 7th, the same day as Mr. Amatangelo's comment.

As hard as this is to believe, things have gotten worse. <insert new yellow text here with some comments of mine>

BioWare and Electronic Arts have espoused at length about their pride in presenting LGBTQ content. Yet for our little community, there has been nothing but stone cold silence. If BW/EA likes to talk about how much they love to include LGBT content in games, but will not say a word about this in their MMO, then they are just using that community for good PR.

I'm coming to the folks at this site, so perhaps you could bring this to light and this community can get some solid and public answers.

Thank you very much for your time,

Real Name
Real Locale

You guys can use all or part of that as you wish. I'm not going to stop. Like I said before, when all of this started:

Ah, my Sith passion fuels me!

natashina's Avatar

12.14.2012 , 03:09 AM | #4049

I told you BW, I've got a lot of free time on my hands. Nothing to lose and then this happens.

Guys, we got a hit from They are going to be writing about this.

And who says I don't give good Yule gifts.

First letter response:

We have thought about doing a story on it, but it has been mention a few times that this is now on the back burner, since half of the staff got canned.
We all know that isn't true, so I sent him these follow ups:

They have not come and told the SGR community any of this at all. Not at all since March and not publicly. It is no where on the website at all. No videos talk about it, other than one from a PvP developer that said he thinks it coming.

We keep getting the same copy and paste answer from the moderators. If this is BioWare's answer is there any way to have them say this directly to the press and/or player base?

I got a different answer from This is what BioWare told them:

"We too have gotten a lot of questions about this and should be able to issue an answer soon. We had to be able to confirm things and we’re getting closer to that point. As soon as we have final confirmation that is happening, we’ll let you know to give you a heads up."

Which answer is true?

There is still a very wide spread interest in this. There has been over 2000 pages and over 30,000 posts about this subject. Myself and others have contacted GLAAD. They are apparently investigating this matter and I'd really like this brought to full light.

Thanks again for your time,

Real Name
This is the second follow up I did:

I just did a search on Google and nowhere on it did it say SGRs had been scrapped for any reason. Does the writing staff on your team know something that myself and the players do not?

If that is true, then please show me the source of that information. If that isn't true, then I'll request again for you and your staff to write an article about this matter.

Thanks again and I'll let you get back to work.
And I got this reply:

I have mailed it to Lisa. She will see if she can dig something up. I'm pretty sure they answered questions about it on one of the meet and greet ( cantina tour ) things. I can't remember though. I have to admit that it's not one of those things I have taken much note about.

Lisa will do a story on it though. Stay tuned.

Lisa is their other senior editor.

Our efforts are starting to pay off guys! At least this way the media can either help give us an answer or blow the lid off this whole thing.

We've officially gotten the press to care. Once this article hits, you bet I'm going to make sure every and any website will have this linked. That's why I was so persistent. I didn't care about what the net thinks of us and I think it's working now.

That's why I've said all along to never ever give up. That's the power of being pro-active. Let's keep it going guys!

They were asking if anyone has a direct screenshot of the deleted Tweet. I'm writing to some of our fallen comrades to see if they have one. Did anyone else here get that lucky?

As of right now, we're still writing back and forth. I'll keep you guys updated!

Palar's Avatar

12.14.2012 , 03:32 AM | #4050
I completely forgot about those events - I guess they do make a good smoke-screen to point at and say they answered something... especially since
After each event, we’ll be publishing a meet & greet summary blog so that those of you that aren’t able to attend will be caught up with any relevant information.
has never eventuated for any of them. I found a loose recap for one of them on Darth Hater, but that's all.