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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
12.10.2012 , 01:36 AM | #3971
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Yeah...

For starters, there's no guarantee that the character I want to do an SGRA on will have an option.
EDIT: Sorry, got to rambling, sometimes when it's late I forget that posting stream of consciousness isn't exactly good practice.

Basically, I was saying that I'm moving on from waiting and hoping when SGRAs come, they are something I can enjoy later. There are a few characters I made male against my preference because with species unlocks from the cartel market, I could make them at least interesting in other ways.

I want to romance Kira, so my Jedi Knight will be a male. I really like Anakin Skywalker in the Clone Wars and Episode 3, so he'll be my model for a reckless Jedi with a heart in the right place. (I don't plan to follow his path all the way to his fall.)

I heard the Imperial Agent get's to have a lot of fun as a male, so I made a Miraluka male IA. Kaliyo should be fun too.

One of the romances I want to most see is Jaesa, but I don't think I can bear being a male Warrior, because the female VA is so much better. I made a male Twi'lek, and was sorta happy with him, til I came here to post about it, and realized I wasn't really OK with it. I think my warrior will just have to be a bad influence of an older sister type role. It was a hard choice, but missing Jaesa's romance doesn't mean missing Jaesa, and to do otherwise would mean settling for a main character I don't love when the other option is a voice performance I adore for my main character.

*sigh*

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.10.2012 , 03:37 AM | #3972
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Yeah...

For starters, there's no guarantee that the character I want to do an SGRA on will have an option.

I also fear it will be a few conversations.
Well, I would expect it to be on par with the current OGR's. Which to some are nice, and to others are boring/cheesy. If you haven't really seen what romances are like in the game because you're holding off, you might be expecting more than what they are. Or you might just end up with a companion option that you simply don't care for.

Honestly, the romances in the game thus far aren't anything spectacular, but I enjoyed a couple of them a lot (All of the various Agent romances), mostly because I continue to let my imagination run past what the game gives me. But if I just don't like the option I have, like with Torian on my BH, for instance, then there's not much I can do. Some people DO love Torian, he's just not really my BH's type, lol. Nadia was cute and things that happened with her later on made it more emotionally involving. But to me it's less about the conversations themselves and more about what defines my own character. To have no option to identify your character as anything but straight in the context of your story can be frustrating.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
12.10.2012 , 10:56 AM | #3973
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
Well, I would expect it to be on par with the current OGR's. Which to some are nice, and to others are boring/cheesy. If you haven't really seen what romances are like in the game because you're holding off, you might be expecting more than what they are. Or you might just end up with a companion option that you simply don't care for.
Knowing my luck, that's what will happen across the board

Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
Honestly, the romances in the game thus far aren't anything spectacular, but I enjoyed a couple of them a lot (All of the various Agent romances), mostly because I continue to let my imagination run past what the game gives me. But if I just don't like the option I have, like with Torian on my BH, for instance, then there's not much I can do. Some people DO love Torian, he's just not really my BH's type, lol. Nadia was cute and things that happened with her later on made it more emotionally involving. But to me it's less about the conversations themselves and more about what defines my own character. To have no option to identify your character as anything but straight in the context of your story can be frustrating.
Yeah, but the nice thing about those that want to do OGRA is that they have full access to all the romance options, whether they like them or not.

For me, there's only a few romanceable female companions I'm interested in (like, maybe two) and the odds they will be available are slim. For instance, I don't particularly like the female SW companions for romance and I doubt I'll do one with my SW but right now that's more about not even having the option and less about my own personal preference...which is annoying.

It's less about identifying my character as "not straight" within game context more about having full access to story content that can shape my character, including romance if I wish.
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JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
12.10.2012 , 11:02 AM | #3974
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
I don't see why every companion that's romancable shouldn't be hero-sexual.

~snip~
Personally, I just wish they'd put more focus on personality/actions than sex when it comes to whether or not romance is possible. And I'm not talking about the one-dimensional approval bar that Dragon Age and The Old Republic have been using, or the "pick the top answer" system Mass Effect used.

It's just really silly that throwing enough gifts at your chosen companion (or simply choosing the nice and/or flirty lines) makes all your time spent killing orphans entirely irrelevant.
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stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
12.10.2012 , 12:42 PM | #3975
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I'm not sure but I do not think it would work if they simply swapped genders for SGR for SWTOR without changing at least some things about the romance itself.

I totally know what you mean, the greedy person in me wants as much SGR content for SWTOR as possible, but it needs to conform to some standard, imo, needs to be believable. So just swapping gender would not be sufficient here, as much as I'd like it to be.
I think that simply swapping pronouns would work for most of the dialog. Of course, there might be some parts where there would need to be more of a difference.

What I don't think is necessary is a completely different romance path for both genders with zero similarities in dialog.

Edit: on that note, I don't think those that are advocating the pronoun swap are just asking them to go and change "he" to "she" and call it a day. I think that's a place to start but the entire romance story and all dialog would have to be looked at carefully to see if there are spots that would need changed beyond that.
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SirGladiator's Avatar


SirGladiator
12.10.2012 , 02:56 PM | #3976
I think the whole 'changing pronouns is bad writing' thing is just an excuse to give us nothing at all. Its basicly what the ME2 fellow said when that whole controversy came up. Why can't we romance Miranda, Jack, and Tali as FemShep? The guy basicly said 'well, we wanted to include them, but we really wanted to do it right, not just make FemShep's romance a copy of MaleShep's romance, we really wanted it to be unique and special'. We know how sincere he was by the fact that not only did he give us nothing at all instead, but it was the exact same deal in ME3, no FemShep romances for any of those characters once again (they threw in a couple minor non-teammate romances into ME3, which was better than nothing, but not by much). They really made those romances special, they're the only ones you have to have a mod to play. That's not a good kind of special . Of course it was just an excuse to give us nothing, and that's what they're doing again here.

The simple reality is that the romance is the romance, and changing the pronouns in the romance storylines is exactly the same as changing the pronouns in any other storyline in the game, doing it isn't bad writing, its 'not' doing it that is bad writing. I just want to be able to enjoy the same romances everybody who plays as a male character can, I don't really care about 'unique' or 'special' dialogue just for my gender, heck you barely get any special dialogue based on your species, that's actually something I'd like to see a little more of. I hope that with all the pressure they're getting they'll finally do the right thing, don't just throw us a tiny little bone like ME3 did with the non-teammate 'romance' stuff, make all the female characters, who can already be romanced, be romancable for all of us. All they need to add is the voicework for the main character (which may already be done for all we know, and they simply chose not to put it in the game), obviously the character being romanced already has their part of the romance fully voiced. I would much MUCH rather have them do it that way, than make some kind of token lesbian character that I may or may not even like. Even if I did end up liking the token new character the best, ten or so different options sure beats just one . So yes, by all means add new female characters, the more the better, and make them available to everybody, but don't forget to make the ones that are already in the game available to everyone as well. Then we'll all be winners.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.10.2012 , 03:03 PM | #3977
Yeah, irrespective of their view of swapping pronouns and removing gender flags you'd think they'd at least agree that doing pronoun swaps wouldn't be AS bad writing as doing nothing at all.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.10.2012 , 03:31 PM | #3978
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
If you want some really optimistic thinking, maybe they really are spending a lot of time and thought into making sure they make SGR's really believable and appealing to as many people as possible. I know, wishful thinking, right.
Not necessarily unrealistic thinking, and certainly positive (which is valuable in and of itself). But I suspect they just can't afford to do the companion content yet and don't want to admit it.
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chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.10.2012 , 03:43 PM | #3979
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Not necessarily unrealistic thinking, and certainly positive (which is valuable in and of itself). But I suspect they just can't afford to do the companion content yet and don't want to admit it.
Yeah, probably. But, at least the writers have had a lot of time to think about it......haha
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.10.2012 , 06:23 PM | #3980
Quote: Originally Posted by angrydurf View Post
It is I was perhaps being overly complete in my wording I know people who get quite worked up over the issue mostly in that they jump to an assumption of it means that one partner is the "girl/guy" in a gay/lesbian relationship. Mostly because despite this very rarely being the case it is constantly put forward in media.
That's a very good and salient point. I must admit I haven't felt a 'butch-twink' vibe from any of the romances I've seen (though I must stress I've seen very few - and I apologise in advance if my use of 'butch-twink' as a term offends anyone) but that's definitely something they'd need to watch out for.

I actually started romancing Vette recently, and while she seems overwhelmed at the idea it seems more to do with the PC being a powerful terrifying Sith Lord than the PC being male or female. Vette's kind of forced into a semi-submissive role (or at least a hesitant role) right from word go.

Quote: Originally Posted by angrydurf View Post
Sexuality doesn't have to have alot to do with personality but it does have a a fair amount to do with how you interact romantically. As for none of the assorted traits mattering that is only partially true I mean if you go around betraying the empire Raina Temple isn't going to hop in bed with you.
Yes, but for the most part, how much rep do you lose with her? -1. For betraying the Empire she holds dear that's a very, very mild reaction. And playing nice with her at all other times will almost certainly result in bed-time with her.

Quote: Originally Posted by angrydurf View Post
Your actions do have effects on companion affection and reaction. Now mechanically that is all wiped out by nice gifts so all romanceable companions are basically gold diggers but thats more an unfortunate result of mechanics than anything else. I mean if sexuality isn't an issue why does
Spoiler
I agree that it does make a difference. Absolutely. I just find it unrealistic that of all the things that could block you from getting in a relationship with someone, gender is the only absolute (and the only exception tot hat seems to be LS Jaesa). Doesn't matter if you're a different shape, even. If there were more blocks I wouldn't find it so bizarre, I'm sure.

Also, I haven't played my Smuggler far enough to find that point. It sounds hilarious.

Quote: Originally Posted by angrydurf View Post
I think DA actually handled this pretty well. All the companions felt more like they were bi then hero-sexual. ME has had issues with that at times though. Like DA1+2 it seemed like from the get go these characters were Bisexual. In ME other than Liara not so much. It's subtle but it turned me off from pursuing those relationships.
I thought romances in Dragon Age (both Origins and 2) were very well done indeed. Mass Effect... Um, not so much. I really do like the mini-romances with Traynor and Cortez, they're very sweet, but I also think they're probably... underdeveloped (certainly they're underdeveloped compared to the companion romances).

Now, all the above said, I have no issue with them not taking a herosexual route. I do think the herosexual route is unfairly demonised (DA2 is proof that it can be done well) but I've no issue at all with them defining who's gay, who's straight and who's bi - if it's written well. Both routes have significant drawbacks and pitfalls (and as we've all gathered, not getting SGRAs at all is a big potential pitfall of the second route).
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