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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.30.2012 , 03:08 PM | #3411
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I don't know much about GLAAD, Fabiyun, but they do have a contact page and a separate page for reporting defamation. I don't think this qualifies as defamation (unless erasure/denial is defamation?), but you did say they were initially interested in SWTOR and SGRA's.

I guess I'm trying to say I would contact them, but that it might be better if an actual LGBT person did so first...
JC said he'd contact some peeps working at GLAAD. They sent me an email last year when I reported SWTOR. They'd said they received several complaints and would look into it. BW did come with a statement after that, and that at that time was the end of it. But we're a year on now, so updating them would be good.

As for defamation. Exclusion and invisibility fall in that category. GLAAD deals with LGBTQ representation in media. They've had campaigns to promote LGBTQ visibility and have a watch list of representation in media, including yearly awards. They're a great organisation, I wish we had something similar here in Europe, because I do believe GLAAD is the driving force after much better representation in US media.

Anyone who's concerned can contact them though. Parents and family are also parties who often report defamation.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.30.2012 , 03:15 PM | #3412
If GLAAD's taken action against Bioware before, then they might be very interested to see how that has progressed (or rather, hasn't).

Do you have any links to their previous articles on Bioware/SWTOR so that I know what I'm referencing?

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.30.2012 , 03:31 PM | #3413
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
If GLAAD's taken action against Bioware before, then they might be very interested to see how that has progressed (or rather, hasn't).

Do you have any links to their previous articles on Bioware/SWTOR so that I know what I'm referencing?
I don't know if they took action. The only thing I know is that they wrote me back and showed concern. I'm also sure they read the forums at that time. After the BW statement they published this http://www.glaad.org/blog/star-wars-...ing-fan-outcry
I do think they have made contact, but I have no way to be sure of that.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

amnie's Avatar


amnie
11.30.2012 , 03:39 PM | #3414
I'm just really disappointed right now because a huge part of me want to stay true to her word and cancel my sub at the end of the year now. but damnit, I love this game. it's just that now EVERY TIME I have a companion trigger I will be reminded that something that should have been here a year ago is .not.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.30.2012 , 03:40 PM | #3415
Hrm, thanks for the link Fabiyun. I think I'll wait until JC comes back with any results. It may sound strange considering my previous bravado, but it doesn't seem proper for me to be contacting them.

It's kind of like... well... It's an LGBT issues, and LGBT group and I don't want to look like one of those annoying-as-all-hell supposed "allies" who expect a cookie and a pat on the back for saying "gays are people too!"

My boundaries, they are undefined.

Edit: Also, "holiday 2011"? What does that mean, which holiday? Easter?

amnie's Avatar


amnie
11.30.2012 , 03:49 PM | #3416
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Hrm, thanks for the link Fabiyun. I think I'll wait until JC comes back with any results. It may sound strange considering my previous bravado, but it doesn't seem proper for me to be contacting them.

It's kind of like... well... It's an LGBT issues, and LGBT group and I don't want to look like one of those annoying-as-all-hell supposed "allies" who expect a cookie and a pat on the back for saying "gays are people too!"

My boundaries, they are undefined.

Edit: Also, "holiday 2011"? What does that mean, which holiday? Easter?
it's not an lgbt-issue, though.

it's an issue of promisses not being kept, it's an issue of people not being aware of problems. it's an issue of 'injustice' finding its way into video games.

could you imagine playing this game if you could only play male characters?
could you imagine playing this game if you could only play white characters?

I can assure you the vast majority of the players IS male and white, but gosh darnit I hope there would be a .huge. uproar if those were the only choices.


maybe it's because i'm Germany and I get paranoid about these things, but it's the little things that count and I do indeed think 'first they came for the jews and I didn't say anything because I wasn't jewish' instantly, especially when I hear people say 'there are more important things in this game than sga'

****, there isn't. I am definitely at the point where I say NO THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT. this is no longer a matter of 'content'. actually, it never was.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.30.2012 , 04:00 PM | #3417
I messaged them about our issue:

Quote:
Many months and maybe even possibly years ago I contacted you concerning BiOWare's Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, Star Wars: The Old Republic and it's lack of inclusion of Same Gender Romance Arcs with companions, despite Opposite Gender Romance releasing with the game's launch. As you may know BiOWare is renowned in the LGBT Gamer community for it's LGBT inclusiveness in the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series, along with other assorted titles in Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire.

Fortunately before the launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic, BiOWare's ex-developer Stephen Reid made the statement that SGRAs would be a 'Post-launch' feature, SWTOR launched coming on a year ago.

Further developing the issue is that another Ex-dev in Daniel Erickson made a statement at the 'Guild Summit' back in March that we would see Same Gender Romances along side new story content 'this year'.

Since then, no official statement has been made and BiOWare have revealed that the next patch is about Player vs Player content, this will be the last patch of the year, nothing to do with the Same Gender Romances feature, they also announced that the next patch wouldn't be till nine weeks after the christmas holidays via Developer Jeff Rickman.

When asked repeatedly non-stop by many LGBT gamers what the status of the 'Makeb'(The next development of story content) patch was, they claimed it is still coming, but later next year, but they didn't reveal anything about Same Gender Romances and if it was still on-track or even involved with it.

The only word a BiOWare employee has made on the subject(Which they have hidden as well as they can in the SWTOR.com forums due to massive 'flaming and trolling' incidents from other users.) was from the Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amantangelo, where he said he 'thinks' the SGRA feature will be with Makeb, when the Lead Writer Hall Hood was asked on Twitter for confirmation on this he stated that SGRAs are confirmed to be in Makeb. The following morning Hood's tweet was removed and nothing at all has been said about it since.

This was months ago, the company has made no statements or even referenced the content among every other feature the game is going to introduce along the way.

This silence has upset many players of the game, including me and very dedicated LGBT and Straight BiOWare and Star Wars fans, we have no voice any more, we have basically lost the hope and will for BiOWare's renowned inclusiveness to carry on in this game and we as an LGBT section of players in Star Wars: The Old Republic's community request Glaad's help in finding some answers, this might not be nearly as important to the other issues the LGBT community faces, but to gamers, it's something that makes us feel like we belong in these wonderful worlds and universes, anything you can do for us and any contact you could make on our behalf would make our year and restore our hope.

Love, the LGBT community of Star Wars: The Old Republic.
I hope that does something at least.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.30.2012 , 04:16 PM | #3418
Date of Incident: 17/01/2012 - ongoing (*start of this thread)
Location: Star Wars: The Old Republic Official Forums

Though Bioware have indeed previously stated that there is indeed intention to bring same-sex content to Star Wars: The Old Republic, I believe that I should be brought to general attention just how Bioware have handled the discussion of the content, or rather, not handled it. Until very recently (25th September, to be exact) all mention or discussion of same-sex content was immediately redirected to the above linked thread. This redirection was done so under site moderation rules that call for duplicate threads to be closed and redirected as necessary, but curiously this rule was only ever really applied to discussion of same-sex content (and still is, with one notable exception). Bioware, after much pressing and one user reporting the moderation team for homophobic harassment, said that they were applying the rule more strictly to the discussion of same-sex content for the protection of those who wish to discuss it.

Now, this might be understandable if our discussion topic (linked above) were in one of the more heavy traffic boards, like General Discussion or Community. It is, however, not in a heavy traffic board. The discussion of same-sex content is relegated to the Story and Lore sub-forum, which, rather unsurprisingly, is for the discussion of in-game story aspects, something which our discussion is only relevant to in a round-about way.

As to how Bioware have engaged with the community on same-sex content, it is very simple to say that they have not. From January until March of 2012, each weekly Question and Answer session, in which questions posed by the community were answered by developers, the question of the inclusion of same-sex content was asked. It was never addressed. During March 2012, the Guild Summit was held. This was a live Q&A session, in front of a live audience asking questions and was also broadcasted, live, over the internet. It was only when Daniel Erickson was asked during the Guild Summit Q&A - and was therefore unable to dodge the question - about same-sex content were the community given a rough estimate of "this year" (presumed to be 2012). Interestingly, however, Mr. Erickson did explicitly state that same-sex content would be "this year", but rather said that same-sex content would be bundled with other story content.

From March then on, we asked for clarification of Mr. Erickson's comment (never transcribed to the official site, mind) and were ignored.

After Mr. Erickson left Bioware and was replaced with Mr. Hall Hood as Lead Writer, we asked if Mr. Erickson's comments were still valid. We have been ignored on this.

We have asked if the sudden and fast more to Free2Play has affected the development of same-sex romance content. We have been ignored.

We have asked if there is still intention to bring same-sex content to Star Wars: The Old Republic, at ant point, in any capacity, as the end of the year draws ever closer. We have been ignored.

At no time has Bioware ever voluntarily acknowledged the existence of same-sex content, the existence of their LGBT fanbase or the existence of the discussion topic linked above. Bioware has only ever given the most piecemeal information after enormous amounts of pressure.

During the Q&A session for Mr. Hood, the Lead Writer, questions about same-sex content made up 25% of the total questions in the thread. They were ignored.

During the latest Q&A Livestream session with Mr. Schubert and Mr. Hickman, many members asked up same-sex content and we were ignored. It has even been pointed out that Mr. Hickman appeared to be laughing at the players he was answering.

Many players, myself included, are tired of asking the same questions week after week and being ignored. Bioware claim to be an LGBT friendly organisation and producer, but their handling of same-sex content in Star Wars: The Old Republic seems to very much put that in doubt.

Thank you for your time.

~

How's that? I've not sent it yet, please let me know if it needs work.

Edit: Whoo! Rayla! *fist bump*

_biddan_'s Avatar


_biddan_
11.30.2012 , 04:17 PM | #3419
why is everyone so obsessed with SGR?i mean come on the absence of it is not game breaking and there are many more important things to do first,this takes lots of work and voice acting,it's not a one day job so if you really want it you know that you have to wait for more important things.
The Red Eclipse

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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.30.2012 , 04:20 PM | #3420
Quote: Originally Posted by _biddan_ View Post
why is everyone so obsessed with SGR?i mean come on the absence of it is not game breaking and there are many more important things to do first,this takes lots of work and voice acting,it's not a one day job so if you really want it you know that you have to wait for more important things.
Why would people want to see themselves be represented in an entertainment medium and also be able to make choices to enjoy the game they want to play?

Gosh, I don't know why

We've had the discussion over development time. Don't think that any of us here are under any illusions as to how long the content takes.

But I know why you're really here. Go rain on the SSSP people, at least they have information.