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Refund for dead graphics card

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Customer Service
Refund for dead graphics card

turjake's Avatar


turjake
05.04.2012 , 01:50 AM | #21
Hmm, again a thread about destroyed hardware. Always an interesting subject, atleast technically. It is not very easy to destroy computer hardware with just running a program in your computer. There must be some other underlying issues too for it to work.

For example if your power unit does not have enough curret for your new fancy graphics card and cpu when the computer is at full speed, it does all kinds of weird things. Does that lead to broken graphics card or psu, I am not sure, but lets imagine it is possibility, Ofcourse in this case it is not the games faul, you just dont have good enough psu.

Other thing is cooling. I know you can break cpu:s and graphics cards with overheating them, on the other hand as far as I know all the new cpus and graphics cards come with big enough (and noisy) fan that keeps them cool when you are not overclocking. So if you manage to overheat your hardware, either you are doing something wrong (overclocking) or you changed the fans, or your case doesnt have enough airflow. Or the hw was about to break anyway because it was faulty or the fan failed. It could be also the graphics card driver, I think I heard a rare case with one driver that turned the fan to minimum when it should have been max and overheated the cards, but that is a driver issue, not a game issue.

Anyway my current nvidia card runs at 75 celsius, while processor(s) are a bit under 60 when playing the game. So far they havent broken with this or any other game or software. I once had a brand new hard disk which failed after a weeks use. But I dont think it broke because I installed windows-xp on it. I got a new similar disc and it has worked ever since quite many years now.

big_malky's Avatar


big_malky
05.04.2012 , 07:48 AM | #22
The system was not overclocked, it was a day old and it hadn't been tampered with in any way. It was working perfectly beforehand and after installing and booting up the game... The graphics card failed. After extensive graphics driver repairs, reinstalls and restoring system to factory settings, the card still would not work.

I have mentioned a few times and will continue to mention, if people so willingly ignore the facts that I have stated many times on this thread, that the system is a NEW GAMING DESKTOP WITH MORE THAN ADEQUATE REQUIREMENTS AND A COOLING SYSTEM.

Yes, I do admit I may have had a faulty graphics card but there were no signs of a problem BEFORE I installed and launched SWTOR which leads me to believe that the software caused the issue. I am simply going on facts that a lot of people have had this issue if you would direct yourselves to a Google search for things such as 'SWTOR fried/broke/killed my nvidia graphics card'.

People are so quick to disregard a program causing hardware issues, but is it not a virus that can cause your PC to shut down, work overtime and cause hardware faults? Yes it is, so again, unless there is constructive and informed statement made... I will not accept comments from people who are having no issues when there are clearly a lot more like me out there.

Nallana's Avatar


Nallana
05.04.2012 , 08:02 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by big_malky View Post
The system was not overclocked, it was a day old and it hadn't been tampered with in any way. It was working perfectly beforehand and after installing and booting up the game... The graphics card failed. After extensive graphics driver repairs, reinstalls and restoring system to factory settings, the card still would not work.

I have mentioned a few times and will continue to mention, if people so willingly ignore the facts that I have stated many times on this thread, that the system is a NEW GAMING DESKTOP WITH MORE THAN ADEQUATE REQUIREMENTS AND A COOLING SYSTEM.

Yes, I do admit I may have had a faulty graphics card but there were no signs of a problem BEFORE I installed and launched SWTOR which leads me to believe that the software caused the issue. I am simply going on facts that a lot of people have had this issue if you would direct yourselves to a Google search for things such as 'SWTOR fried/broke/killed my nvidia graphics card'.

People are so quick to disregard a program causing hardware issues, but is it not a virus that can cause your PC to shut down, work overtime and cause hardware faults? Yes it is, so again, unless there is constructive and informed statement made... I will not accept comments from people who are having no issues when there are clearly a lot more like me out there.
You do realize that with building systems, you're typically not going to push your hardware to the limit just by turning the machine on... right? There are many ways to test your system and push up to the limits of what it is capable of performing, simply for diagnostic purposes.

I will admit that SWTOR seems to be built on a game engine that was not coded terribly well, and seems to push hardware to their limits and beyond randomly and for seemingly no reason at all. I had to replace my own motherboard and processor just to play this game without stutter-stop and lag. That was coming from a budget AMD quad core setup that was well within the product specifications, yet I have received no compensation for two months of not being able to properly do anything within the game, nor have I seen any fixes that are remotely appropriate. The last graphical fix actually made the game run worse, fps rate dropped, and I have had to modify windows again to run in performance mode to stop this new system from heading into the stutter-stop phase.

Even with all of this, I am still unable to complete the new hard mode flashpoint, as there is so much graphical BS on the first boss that I may as well not even try.

turjake's Avatar


turjake
05.04.2012 , 08:35 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by big_malky View Post
The system was not overclocked, it was a day old and it hadn't been tampered with in any way. It was working perfectly beforehand and after installing and booting up the game... The graphics card failed. After extensive graphics driver repairs, reinstalls and restoring system to factory settings, the card still would not work.

I have mentioned a few times and will continue to mention, if people so willingly ignore the facts that I have stated many times on this thread, that the system is a NEW GAMING DESKTOP WITH MORE THAN ADEQUATE REQUIREMENTS AND A COOLING SYSTEM.

Yes, I do admit I may have had a faulty graphics card but there were no signs of a problem BEFORE I installed and launched SWTOR which leads me to believe that the software caused the issue. I am simply going on facts that a lot of people have had this issue if you would direct yourselves to a Google search for things such as 'SWTOR fried/broke/killed my nvidia graphics card'.

People are so quick to disregard a program causing hardware issues, but is it not a virus that can cause your PC to shut down, work overtime and cause hardware faults? Yes it is, so again, unless there is constructive and informed statement made... I will not accept comments from people who are having no issues when there are clearly a lot more like me out there.
Sometimes things not directly related to each other happen at the same time. Did you test your new computer with a 3d test program, like 3dmark vantage/11 whatever. You can even let these run in loop for an hour if you wish to see how your system is building heat (or was that only registered version, dont remember).

Anyway if your card breaks after few days use, its most likely a hardware fault. Other reasons maybe driver fault (too low fan, too much voltages) but I havent really followed nvidia driver situation lately so I dont know if these have happened lately. I would really assume that you had by now piles and piles of burned nvidia cards, if the game code somehow could break atleast some type of graphics cards.

I did your google search and found this thread, and few others where people overclocking or not and had heating problems, sometimes broken cards. Also performance problems but that is not same as frying the card.

kjfett's Avatar


kjfett
05.04.2012 , 11:21 AM | #25
For the love of all that is good on this planet OP...have you NEVER bought anything that turned out to be broken in some way? Your VC was bad. It obviously had a weak point that was made very obvious when the system was finally put under pressure. If anything, the game did you a service by finding this problem while you still had a warranty.

Sheff's Avatar


Sheff
05.04.2012 , 11:39 AM | #26
If your GPU died then you have something faulty in your rig. Plain and simple. Either the cooling is not working properly, your PSU is inadequate, the list goes on.
Running a game could conceivably overheat your GPU, but again, this is your fault if it happens. Building rigs comes with risks, that's just the way it is.
Obviously running a game has caused something in your rig (that was most likely already faulty) to fail. Being that it's your GPU it will most likely mean that the card was faulty. Power supply failure is possible but I wouldn't say as likely.

Blaming a game dev for something your end is really pointless. If you have already got a replacement then happy days. if it happens again then obviously something else is up. But I can assure you that the game is not at fault.
Intel Core i7-3770K 3.50GHz (Ivybridge) | 16GB Team Xtreem LV DDR3 2600 Quad-Channel CL10 | Gigabyte Z77-G1-Sniper 3 Intel Z77 | 2 x Gigabyte GTX 680's SOC SLI | Z906 Logitech Optical Speakers 5.1 | Benq 120mhz Monitor 1920x1080 | Recon 3D Fatality Series Sound Card (4 cores) | Corsair 1200W PSU | 512GB Crucial SSD | 2TB Seagate SATA 3 HDD |

tullnd's Avatar


tullnd
05.04.2012 , 12:03 PM | #27
So I've posted this before, I'll do it again.

Hardware cannot operate beyond 100% of it's capability. That's it. The laws of physics say that there's a maximum speed that video card can process data at. Now, we're not talking about over clocking, cause we all agree that the game is not overclocking the card(if you don't agree with that...then...well, I beg of you to present how SWOTR has been able to perform such a feat!).

So the card has a 100% maximum load that it can achieve. That's when it's running full throttle at the assigned clock rate for the GPU. Processing as much data as possible.

Any hardware manufacturer is responsible for making sure they provide adequate cooling for a card operating at that load. However, it gets a little tricky. The cooling solution can technically be adequate, but the install matters. Not all computer cases are alike. Some have more components in them than others. Some have a higher internal ambient temperature than others, or poor internal air flow.

That card is assuming a certain ambient temperature with moderate airflow is present, so that that the factory provided cooling with be adequate. If you have a bad layout and haven't allocated appropriate cooling in the case, with adequate airflow, that factory fan on your GPU may not be able to keep up, due to the issues inside your particular case.

That said, SWTOR can only make the GPU run at 100% load. If you think it can exceed 100% load, you realize you have broken the very laws of physics that all of our scientific knowledge is based upon. I'm going to assume you now agree that 100% load is all that SWTOR can hit.

Now, theoretically, it IS possible that there is a driver error, that can allow commands to be executed in such a way that could cause issues, and perhaps(although rare) a physical failure to the board. That would obviously be the fault of the driver manufacturer, which is likely the same group that made the GPU. Not SWTOR.

Any game/application wants to use all that available processing power you have to maximize performance. That's how software should work. It should continually demand more performance from your hardware until it gets the maximum performance results, which for us is generally interpreted as high frame rates, at whatever resolution and visual quality we have assigned in the engine. So any software title is going to push your hardware as hard as it can, until it hits whatever the maximum rating it can hit, with whatever is the bottleneck in the system. If you have a i3 processor, it will demand as much from the video card you have, to match whatever is the maximum capability that the i3 can provide. If you have a high end video card, maybe that's only 70% load, cause it can't use the rest of that video power until the CPU is faster. Bump up to an i5 series, maybe now your GPU can hit up to a 90% load. i7 and suddenly it's running at 100% load all the time. Why? Because the processor is high enough to allow it to benefit from extra GPU load as well, so it uses as much as it can get. Any application would run like that.

The end result is, SWTOR can't kill your video card. It may demand more of it than other applications, but that isn't a negative. Your card may only overheat when running SWTOR. That means you have a heat issue. Whether it's due to poor cooling from the factory fan or perhaps really just due to bad airflow/cooling in your case, doesn't matter. The actual underlying cause isn't SWTOR. Some other application could just as easily reveal this condition as well and it's still a cooling issue. There could be bad drivers out there. Again, SWTOR can only do what the driver allows it to do. They're not executing a command of "go kill this nvidia card now". They could execute a command of "run this as fast as you can" and the driver may allow it to do something it's not supposed to. That responsibility lies with the manufacturer of the driver.

You can argue that SWTOR's engine is not as efficient as it should be. Perhaps, that's not easy to prove and would require a lot more evidence, but surely it's possible. But that doesn't mean it can kill a video card. It just doesn't.


edit - also, your note about a virus causing hardware issues? Let me clarify that for you, cause it's not true. You're still talking software. So a virus that causes hardware problems? You're probably talking about the ones that would write bad sectors to the BIOS or something like that or to a boot record. In theory, that's still all software. Sometimes people just replaced hard drives cause they didn't feel like going through the necessary steps to fix it. Or if the BIOS was corrupted so that the PC could no longer boot, technically that was still software. The problem is that most people don't have a PROM burner to reprogram the BIOS on the motherboard. But it's still a software issue, not hardware. That's also a very narrow scope. Software like SWTOR doesn't get to talk to components directly like that. Part of what DX11 and standards like it do, is allow the software to execute pre-set commands, that simplify coding and are very efficiently organized already. The driver for the video card interprets that command and lets the GPU execute it. Windows used to use what was called a "hardware abstraction layer"(still sort of does, but it's different than the one most of us were familiar with in the NT4,0 days) that also had direct to hardware commands, but these are preset commands, not just anything the software wants, so they're all vetted and validated to be safe. There's an entire area of technology here that prevents what you are talking about from happening.

shizzuh's Avatar


shizzuh
05.16.2012 , 07:12 PM | #28
After playing Old Republic caused my power supply to fail I went to the Tiger Direct outlet to purchase a new one and explained my difficulties. They said they have had numerous people coming in and complaining that they have been playing Old Republic and their power supplies or video cards have gone bad, and that they have never seen so many hardware related faults with a video game.

I would like to see a customer service representative comment on this matter.

DiabloDoom's Avatar


DiabloDoom
05.16.2012 , 07:14 PM | #29
You bought a desktop, a component died within a day, sounds like it was a faulty GPU. Claim your warranty and get it replaced.

Romiz's Avatar


Romiz
05.16.2012 , 07:49 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by shizzuh View Post
After playing Old Republic caused my power supply to fail I went to the Tiger Direct outlet to purchase a new one and explained my difficulties. They said they have had numerous people coming in and complaining that they have been playing Old Republic and their power supplies or video cards have gone bad, and that they have never seen so many hardware related faults with a video game.

I would like to see a customer service representative comment on this matter.
Honestly do not believe that. This game is NOT stressful on the system compared to a lot of other games. Tiger Direct may have just said that to get you off their backs.

Part fail on computers all the time. That is just how it is with hardware. Be glad you did not have the first computers them failed a LOT more than modern components.

As some one noted the software is not responsible for any hardware failures.

Quote from EA not all game makers use this:
Quote:
EA AND ITS LICENSORS ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR LOSS OF DATA, DAMAGE CAUSED TO YOUR SOFTWARE OR HARDWARE, AND ANY OTHER LOSS OR DAMAGE SUFFERED BY YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY, WHETHER DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL AND HOWEVER ARISING, AS A RESULT OF ACCESSING OR USING ANY EA SERVICE, CONTENT, EA SOFTWARE TO YOUR COMPUTER AND/OR DEVICE.