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Enrage timers


Aritok's Avatar


Aritok
05.02.2012 , 01:14 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Krissvalnorr View Post
I also hate enrage timer, i would prefer 10000000 more life points on boss. Wiping on a boss at 2% because he decides he does 1000% more damage is stupid, find something else.
Great idea. 2-3 hour fights. Just to say it, if you can handle the fight for 10 min, you can handle it as well for 10 hours (or until someone fall asleep).
The system dont make a difference how long you can keep up the fight. The only way is a kind of change in the fight. And enrage timers (even though to often used) are one way.

Take Doctor Lorrick for example. His enrage is just an increasing damage dot. Would you call this enrage or mechanic? Basicly its an enrage timer. Kill him before his dot kill you. Its just no red glow with a instant kill. But its the same.

And not all enrage timers are instant kills. Some only double up the damage the boss / mob is doing. Its still healable, just harder. Like Soa. Easy healable even when enraged, unless the tank get a pylone on his head.


This remins me on a call i saw on general not to long ago. An example why enrage timers are good:
Someone was asking for two healers for D7 normal. Funny part is, he is a healer as well. So they were looking for 3 healer and one tank because they could not get the boss down.

Golden rule of this: if the boss is to hard, and has no enrage timer, bring more healer. In the end this means 7 healer one tank. And you can take down everything. It just take longer.

Honestly, i prefer enrage timers over this. But i would love more inovation on them. Like Doctor Lorrick.

Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
05.02.2012 , 04:30 AM | #12
again with this.

Enrage timers are necessary, we all know what happened in fight that does not enrage.

Remember vanilla ragnaros. Just bring 20 healers (yes 20), have 10 of them all out healing and the other 10 just chilling, regenerating mana. once the first group of healer is OOM, just switch and you get a infinite healing machine that can carry you troughout any fight without enrage timer, just take longer.

i am not kidding, i actually done that. Enrage timer does emphasize good dps gameplay, before that, DPS were just raid filler, now, they are an important part of the raid, they just as critical, if not more, than healer and tank in downing bosses.

This being said, i prefer soft enrage timer such as lorick rather than hard timer (ultraxion, algalon, deathwing, for those who knows)

BroadStreetBully's Avatar


BroadStreetBully
05.02.2012 , 10:25 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by NotRonin View Post
Even when enrage occurs, it does not mean certain death. Sometimes the bosses can be kited, and tanks using their cooldown can often survive enrage for a while. Given the track record so far, enrage is preferrable to the multitude of bugs that will manifest with more complicated mechanics.
^This.

During our guilds last EV run, the 1st boss enraged and ended up killing the healers and then the dps. However, as the tank I was able to rotate my cooldowns and burn down the last 5% or 6% to kill him. The same thing has happened before with HK in False Emperor. Enrage may be a quick kill for undergeared or squishy classes but it is by no means an instant kill for all fights.

OMGitsCHARLIE's Avatar


OMGitsCHARLIE
05.02.2012 , 11:55 AM | #14
Funny, we had Soa on HM EV enraged for 5 minutes cause our tank failed at kiting him under the pillars, and was still able to beat him lul.

(To be fair, all of us had full rakata/T4 gear and was doing it for the speeder cheevo)
yummies - cleavette - moo'shu - i'm'faddycakes

cloudblade's Avatar


cloudblade
05.02.2012 , 12:06 PM | #15
I've never had a problem with enrage timers. If it happens, I know then that we did the mechanics wrong, or that our DPS is not yet ready for it. If anything, enrage timers make my guild play BETTER.

cloudblade's Avatar


cloudblade
05.02.2012 , 12:07 PM | #16
And as mentioned earlier, I don't want to be able to take 1 tank and 3x healers to HM LI, for example. The soft enrage on the bosses there and the hard enrage timers all accomplish the same thing, to make sure you're playing skillfully.

cloudblade's Avatar


cloudblade
05.02.2012 , 12:13 PM | #17
And it's not just about the gear. I'm the main tank and raid leader/coordinator for my guild, and we use HM LI as a testing ground for people that want to do HM ops and SM EC. Just yesterday, I went with my regular DPS and healer and tested out a new Sage DPS that was interested in harder PvE content. This guy has only 14000 health and NO tionese/columi pieces, just some dailies mods, but I had played with him before and knew he was a skilled player. Went through the FP with no trouble at all. Didn't hit one hard/soft enrage timer. It's a good way to test a player's skill in addition to gear.

AltruisticRage's Avatar


AltruisticRage
05.02.2012 , 02:04 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
They are stupid. Please learn how to make more interesting fights Bioware instead of just making everything into a "burn as fast as you can to beat the enrage timer." But all the nerfs to medpacks/healing goes to show that you guys don't know how to make interesting fights I suppose.
One of the problems that the holy trinity creates for developers is that it limits how difficult (or how to best make a fight difficult) that fights can be. In most cases, healing is the main gating mechanic to fight difficulty. How do you make fights harder to heal so that people die faster?

You add enrage timers so that you cannot stack healers to push through difficult mechanics.

This is what SW does and it is what WoW has done forever. This does not mean other people in the encounter do not have important roles. However, it is the easiest way to make a fight hard.

Strangely enough, starting from the ground up without the holy trinity in mind would actually open up a world of possibilities to encounters.
Altruistic <C O V E N A N T> // Sage Healer // The Harbinger
"PvP like you are PvPing for your fake dead girlfriend"

xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
05.02.2012 , 02:09 PM | #19
I think the enrage timers in EC are in a perfect place. None of them are tight at all, on 8 man you can have a DPS die and on 16 man you can have 2 DPS die and make any of the story or hard mode enrage timers. They're not there to test your DPS, they're there to ensure you're doing the fight correctly and not cheesing the mechanics.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
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