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why do people think that finding a guild would resolve the "community problem"?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
why do people think that finding a guild would resolve the "community problem"?

YouYongku's Avatar


YouYongku
04.05.2012 , 02:16 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
Thats totally wrong from my experience, first of all you can raise your item level high enough for Hard mode flashpoints by simply running dailies and modding out your gear with the epic mods, im a guild leader and i always have said that if a player isnt willing to take the time to do that solo content to get the gear then im not going to take the time to carry them through a hard mode flashpoint or a normal operation.
.
Hi,
Thanks for your reply

I maxed out everything in WOW in heroics already, whatever I can get when I solo or use the LFG tool to run normal(maxed out) then heroics(Maxed too).
Cant go to raid because I never been with them before.

As for SWTOR, I played by myself most of the time.
Never been to any HM or FP after red reaper, my own friends who run FP with me left the game.
Cant find anybody to group for, for even the normal, needless to even think about HM.

For the current guild, they seem more interested in PVPing and group with only BM geared people. I understand because it's easier to win in game


Quote:
It sounds like you expect to be running hard mode operations with your guild without having taken the time to do anything else and your mad that they wont take you to be honest. We do the same thing unless we are short on players , but at the same time we will gladly run them through the normal mode operations later on that night or on another day of the week, most guilds want to see their members geared especially with the new content coming soon, if your guild isnt helping you in that way find another one because their are plenty that will.
I understand what you're trying to put across, an undergeared tank would cost the whole team to be wiped.


My question is if one is really maxed(items) out and still not accepted because of "elitism" then how do actually guild brings about "community"?
Is it really because of the contents or the community that makes players leave?

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
04.05.2012 , 02:21 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsaritsin View Post
Guilds don't build community, they destroy Community,

The Guild becomes nothing more than a great big imaginary protective barrier, thrown up in a desperate attempt at protection from the great unwashed masses, a shield against the horde.

The only reason the dev's of any MMO, not just this one, want you in a Guild is because they know this -

People in Guilds are less likely to quit,

The obligation they feel towards the Guild keeps them playing, and keeps them paying long after the fun has gone.

Blizzard have been exploiting this for years, and with the advent of Cata and all its Guild based perks, that exploitation has become so extreme that it's not even worth playing the Game unless your in a Guild.

This

I carried one of the first ever MMORPG guild sout of NWN to the internet based communities 14-15 years ago (the original still exists in Forgotten Worlds btw, just not in modern gaming despite one guilds name claim) and for all those years I tried to make the guild the community based social experience I experienced in original NWN.

And every time I turned my back the modern player based tried to turn it into a elitist, anti social raiding guild.

They finally succeeded in EQ2 and I gave up and finally saw the modern guild for what it was.

Oh I tried some other guilds in EQ2, Rift couple times, even here in TOR and while none of those guilds were stuck up elitists like took over my old guild, they also did not add anything to the communities or societies of the games.

And as I looked around it became appearent that that was the norm.

Long gone are ther social guilds that have lively social chats with members and non members alike, now a days every guild has vent to you are mandated to stay with in the parameters of those few guildies.

Hell most self proclaimed "social guilds", some with very good nice people (if you get to meet them) now play these games with general chat turned off.

Guilds in 1997 were a tool to help create a social experience
Guilds in 2012 are a self contained enclosed and closed off group of hyper snobs who all think the guild tag makes them better then the non guilded player.

Guilds are not the sollution to the community problem.
Guilds (not all by design or intent, Im sure most guilds (not all, some really are designed to be stuck, anti socials snobs, but the mass majority are not) still have a solid and productive intent when created. But intent and well meaning only matter if thats the end result. Hiway is paved with those of good intentions after all) have become the leading problem in the destruction of MMORPG communities.

TOR is actually the perfect example on how negatively Vent affects these games as well.

In closed beta we were not allowed to use vent and other 3rd party voice chat programs, and the community in game on the beta servers was alive, active, chatty. Didnt matter what planet, didnt matter if only 3-4 people on planet, there was a ongoing exchange between players not grouped togather.

Ask yourself how often you see general holding a hour long, 2 hour long, 3 hour long conversation now since release when vent and other 3rd party voice communications were allowed? Answer honestly and you will instantly see a huge reduction in socialization and community interaction and 90% of those voice chats will be aka Guild Only Chats.

I honestly dont know what the complete answer is to this problem, I have some ideas and theories on how to get around the forced secussion and reduced communication but the number 1 thing that comes back to me is always, its time for developers to start focusing on all the players rather then the guilded players. If someone wants to be guilded, then it should be not because of special content and abilities and rewards but because of wanting to be with those players. Things like this shameful guild summit that just happened need to be thrown out the window cause as one of this genres original guild leaders.

Guilds have become part of the problem!
Not part of the solutions anymore.
In regards to lessening F2P and Preferred restrictions
In GAMING, as in LIFE,
You get what you pay for
No game restriction is so dire that $15.00/month will not eliminate it

Darth_Moonshadow's Avatar


Darth_Moonshadow
04.05.2012 , 02:51 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
Even with work and families, a player that plays less should realise that he will progress slower, its just like anything in life the more time you put in the more you get out of it. In mmo's obviously there is a cap on the time you put in as eventually you will outpace the content, the difference is that in most mmo's its a very small percentage and only the most hardcore of hardcore that outpace the content, in this game anyone who plays 10 or so hours a week at top level can easily outpace the content in a month tops (thats for gear progression, in terms of outpacing the game by beating all of its content, well that can happen in a matter of weeks and thats including the different difficulty settings, if you dont include that then its a matter of days) We beat normal EV on our first try in my guild with 3-4 wipes , a wipe on the first boss and then a few wipes on SOA. That should never happen i dont care at what difficulty setting it should just never happen.

We are by most definitions a very casual guild, no one is obliged to show up and we raid when people do show up, we clear all the content on hard mode in 1 night with 1 or 2 wipes and we are done for the week, after your geared up in columi that is all their is to do in terms of character progression for a PVE player, log on once a week for 3-4 hours clear all the content and your done. Im pretty much completely done anyways, i think i need 1 piece of loot right now its rakata offhand, and i would have had it weeks ago probably if me and my guild had noticed sooner that master looter caused items not to drop in hard mode (fixed now) we probably ran 3 weeks worht of raids without realizing that or realising and not knowing the solution, derp!
Indeed, he will progress slowly. That doesn't mean we should lock him out entirely.
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post

And I love Darth Moonshadow's responses.
B

Rasticles's Avatar


Rasticles
04.05.2012 , 02:57 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by YouYongku View Post
Even you can find a guild, if you are not well equipped (with 18k HP and above), you will get a special treatment from your members.

Since the members here always reference WOW, I shall too.

When you join their guild, they'll ask you to get to max level to play with them. Some actually help you out in this.......
When you hit the max level, they'll ask you to quickly get your item level higher to play heroics together. Some actually help you out in this.......
When you reach the item level, they'll ask you to quickly be fully equipped with all the heroics item before they play with you. Some actually help you out in this.......
And when you do, they tell you that you have no raiding experience with them, go get some Some actually help you out in this.......

Similarly here, very seldom would the guildies wanna play with you if your HP is not their desired amount.

Ninjas and angsty people will cease to exist regardless of any game and generation.
I fixed your post.......you're welcome....

To others, OMG, one bad guild eh? Maybe, I dunno, try another one? A good guild is a good guild, which is a group of people of common vein, striving towards the same general goal.....

Sorry if I prefer to
A: group with friends I've gamed with for quite some time.....
B: be in the flashpoint while you only dream of it and go /cantfindgroup

HeavensAgent's Avatar


HeavensAgent
04.05.2012 , 03:00 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by YouYongku View Post
My question is if one is really maxed(items) out and still not accepted because of "elitism" then how do actually guild brings about "community"?
The key is recognizing quality guilds and joining those. The guild you're describing is rubbish from a community perspective. You'll want to find a group that puts their members first.

sjmc's Avatar


sjmc
04.05.2012 , 04:57 AM | #26
Quote:
Guilds in 1997 were a tool to help create a social experience
Guilds in 2012 are a self contained enclosed and closed off group of hyper snobs who all think the guild tag makes them better then the non guilded player.
There were bad guilds in 1997 and good guilds in 1997.
There are bad guilds in 2012 and good guilds in 2012.

In both cases, many probably disagree(d) as to which were which.

Angel_of_Cain's Avatar


Angel_of_Cain
04.05.2012 , 07:27 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by YouYongku View Post
Even you can find a guild, if you are not well equipped (with 18k HP and above), you will get a special treatment from your members.

Since the members here always reference WOW, I shall too.

When you join their guild, they'll ask you to get to max level to play with them.
When you hit the max level, they'll ask you to quickly get your item level higher to play heroics together.
When you reach the item level, they'll ask you to quickly be fully equipped with all the heroics item before they play with you.
And when you do, they tell you that you have no raiding experience with them, go get some

Similarly here, very seldom would the guildies wanna play with you if your HP is not their desired amount.

Ninjas and angsty people will cease to exist regardless of any game and generation.
These types of guilds are the reason some people hate on guilds so much. Our guild (which is recruiting btw...) does the opposite. we are patient with members who are not endgame so they can enjoy the story and game like we did, We help new 50's get their item level so they can enjoy heroics like we do, we help them get better gear so they can enjoy HM's like we do, and if they don't have raiding experience, we tell them "well, letís go get you some." Now granted, if you are not at a certian level, you will not be going on the more difficult missions, but that does not mean you will not be doing any missions with us. On the PvP side, if you don't have the gear or skill in WZ's, well you will have to get your *** kicked on a regular basis like we did, BUT you will have some of us there with you to ease the pain and help you get those "Wins" for dailies. Yes, some people don't want to "waste time" going through the same heroics, FPs, and OPS to help new guildies, but if anyone hates doing the same ole boring, repetitive quests, this game is not for you (don't even want to talk about how many times i have done certian FPs,,,,i can walk through Esseles with a blindfold). I thought guilds were a place to be social, help out each other, and, most importantly IMO, to have fun and enjoy the game as much as possible. Some people tend to forget that at one time THEY were under-geared and didn't have the raid experiance. Under-geared and little MMO experience does not make a bad guild member, bad attitude and eliteist mentality does, and therefore making a bad guild.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.
Quote: Originally Posted by VoidJustice View Post
The community itself ended any chance at open world pvp by rolling imperial in mass.

uniz's Avatar


uniz
04.05.2012 , 09:36 AM | #28
in every mmo i have played and raided in most of the top end raiding guilds are a collection of selfish elitist who are only in it for the loot and bragging rights. for many they just come together several nights a week for a common purpose. outside of that they dont play with others in guild outside of thier little clicks. most have to pug alts. this has spanned 4 mmos over 10 years. such guilds do nothing for the community.

these are the people you want to avoid.

what you want are people, like yourself, who plays regularly, has the patience to help others and enjoys grouping/interacting with each other. there are alot of good family/social/casual guilds out there with nice people who likes to do end game content together and are willing to teach new players. sadly most dont advertise and those that do in channel you kinda wonder about these days. make sure you ask alot of questions if you do respond. a large member base doesnt equate a quality guild either.

Angel_of_Cain's Avatar


Angel_of_Cain
04.05.2012 , 12:13 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by uniz View Post
in every mmo i have played and raided in most of the top end raiding guilds are a collection of selfish elitist who are only in it for the loot and bragging rights. for many they just come together several nights a week for a common purpose. outside of that they dont play with others in guild outside of thier little clicks. most have to pug alts. this has spanned 4 mmos over 10 years. such guilds do nothing for the community.

these are the people you want to avoid.

what you want are people, like yourself, who plays regularly, has the patience to help others and enjoys grouping/interacting with each other. there are alot of good family/social/casual guilds out there with nice people who likes to do end game content together and are willing to teach new players. sadly most dont advertise and those that do in channel you kinda wonder about these days. make sure you ask alot of questions if you do respond. a large member base doesnt equate a quality guild either.
This guy, ladeis and gents, has it.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.
Quote: Originally Posted by VoidJustice View Post
The community itself ended any chance at open world pvp by rolling imperial in mass.

iCanUseTheForce's Avatar


iCanUseTheForce
04.05.2012 , 12:22 PM | #30
On my server, being in a guild definitely helps the community problem. Namely, there is no community. I am on an extremely low pop server and so I need a guild chat to have someone to converse with.