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Why so much HYPOCRISY about RECOUNT?


GOYAFIDO's Avatar


GOYAFIDO
03.01.2012 , 07:47 AM | #1
Pro-recounters are really more about excellence. As a group they want to be better.

Anti-recounters are really more about mediocrity. As a group they don't much care about being better.

These are both valid play styles even though they don't always mesh well together.

People who embrace mediocrity have zero basis to complain about being kicked from a group that wants more excellence rather than less.

We all should be allowed to play this game in the style in which we prefer, amirite? At least that is what most anti-recounters say...until they perceive it as interfering with their ability to get into groups.

Then they turn around and start acting like those people they say magically appear when recount is used: They are judgmental, belittling and want to control how others play.

Don't be two-faced. Pick a face and stick with it.

Some people enjoy being better, like me, or the best like the min/maxers. Others don't care about being better and just want to show up and "have fun." There is nothing wrong with either approach.

The real problems start when the anti-recounters act as though somehow people who want to be better CAN'T be having fun or are "doing it wrong" and they talk down to the people who want to be better...when the anti-recounters keep saying over and over that that is how they don't want to be treated themselves.

Again, pick ONE face.

For most anti-recounters the very soul and foundation of their anti-recount platform is:

"I don't want to be judged or told what to do or treated badly for the way I play." (As long as others play the way THEY play which of course is the "correct" way.)

As I said, there are lots of elitists judging others for their play style and skill level and talking down to them and trying to control how they play.

They are writing anti-recount posts. Dozens of them in fact. True story.

They keep writing the same posts over and over again about how recount will cause OTHER people to exhibit certain forms of abhorrent behavior, the EXACT behavior, in fact, that most of the anti-recounters are exhibiting in THEIR anti-recount posts.

This hypocrisy is why this conversation is completely absurd.

The fact that epeeners are a tiny minority and can't really influence anyone's game once they are on "ignore" just makes this even MORE absurd even though that might hardly seem possible.

Recount isn't nearly as likely to make good players bad as it is to make MEDIOCRE players bad. (Irony abounds here.)

See the pattern in all of this? People want to be allowed to be mediocre and yet not be called out for inflicting their mediocrity on others. Then they turn around and say they don't want excellence shoved in their face. Let those OTHER, too serious, not fun having people change how THEY play, not the anti-recounters.

Oh wait, the anti-recounters don't want to be told how to play or be judged for it.

So much for the Golden Rule...
Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast

ArtMonster's Avatar


ArtMonster
03.01.2012 , 07:48 AM | #2
Recount = No thanks.

.

GOYAFIDO's Avatar


GOYAFIDO
03.01.2012 , 08:00 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by ArtMonster View Post
Recount = No thanks.

.
Why "no thanks"?
Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast

Kabjat's Avatar


Kabjat
03.01.2012 , 08:05 AM | #4
some don't see it as 'excellence vs. mediocrity'

Although I agree with you on most counts. There are many players who are perfectly confident with their abilities to hold their own in a group without recount/meters/logs/whatever.

Personally, I want meters.

Edit: Those who are so vociferous in their opposition and cry and moan at how it will change the community for the worse need to understand that the community is already crappy. Meters won't make or break it, that's for sure.
Quote: Originally Posted by Thaltom View Post
Are you playing TOR on an Atari Potato?

Coyotecalls's Avatar


Coyotecalls
03.01.2012 , 08:09 AM | #5
Dear, OP.

I think your post shows -exactly- why they are never going to let us have a DPS meter or anything like recount.

The game would devolve into people complaining about numbers.
It's the same thing that happened in WoW or when they put in "Gear score".

The developers want the game to be about getting the boss down and having fun. They don't want it to be number crunching and hyper-competitiveness. They don't want it to devolve into the haves and the have-nots. We get enough of that in real life.

Games should be fun.
Wow, reading some of these posts, it's amazing we can actually function as a society at all...
~Livingston, SWTOR Forums.

GOYAFIDO's Avatar


GOYAFIDO
03.01.2012 , 08:16 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Kabjat View Post
some don't see it as 'excellence vs. mediocrity'

Although I agree with you on most counts. There are many players who are perfectly confident with their abilities to hold their own in a group without recount/meters/logs/whatever.

Personally, I want meters.

Edit: Those who are so vociferous in their opposition and cry and moan at how it will change the community for the worse need to understand that the community is already crappy. Meters won't make or break it, that's for sure.
That they don't is part of the their disconnect with other players.

The many players who are confident they can hold their own without are accounted for in my post.

Of course in swtor it is MUCH easier to feel that way and in fact I definitely do.
Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast

Kabjat's Avatar


Kabjat
03.01.2012 , 08:16 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Coyotecalls View Post
Dear, OP.

I think your post shows -exactly- why they are never going to let us have a DPS meter or anything like recount.

The game would devolve into people complaining about numbers.
It's the same thing that happened in WoW or when they put in "Gear score".

The developers want the game to be about getting the boss down and having fun. They don't want it to be number crunching and hyper-competitiveness. They don't want it to devolve into the haves and the have-nots. We get enough of that in real life.

Games should be fun.
I highlighted the part of your comment that made me nearly choke on my coffee. If you believe this, and think that BW believes this, then why aren't we all carbon copy clones of each other whereby no matter WHAT buttons we push everyone's abilities are the EXACT SAME?

Sounds like you don't like that there are players out there who like to cultivate their skill. Sorry, but I don't want to play in an MMO where skill is not required. Unlike you, I believe that people can play how they want, without infringing upon the play style of others....AND I believe the game will flourish despite these differences. I'm not a min-maxer, or a mega leet raider.

I'm just an average player who wants to be able to measure my progress. Why is this bad?
Quote: Originally Posted by Thaltom View Post
Are you playing TOR on an Atari Potato?

spoonguy's Avatar


spoonguy
03.01.2012 , 08:21 AM | #8
Some of your points have merit but only when predicated on the straw men you've created, its not a nice way to post.

I'd like to propose a similar argument based on your own style:

Pro-recounters can not reliably beat end game content or consistently excel in pvp through talent on intellect so need additional help in understanding their characters

Anti-recounters care more about the social aspects of games in general than helping mediocre players keep up with the top tier.

What I did there was load the debate with anyone who wants a damage meter etc being a bad player. I also strongly implied the people who don't want damage meters may be more social and normal people.

That said I have no issue with in game meters, but the 'Anti-recounters' crowd have valid points.

Coyotecalls's Avatar


Coyotecalls
03.01.2012 , 08:26 AM | #9
There will always be those who rise above and those who fall behind. I'm sure your guild is just like our guild where we have a raid team that clears everything and a team that struggles but those of us who excel help those of us who don't. It's called being a good person.

DPS meters and recount will just give people an excuse to act like jerks.
Wow, reading some of these posts, it's amazing we can actually function as a society at all...
~Livingston, SWTOR Forums.

GOYAFIDO's Avatar


GOYAFIDO
03.01.2012 , 08:27 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Coyotecalls View Post
Dear, OP.

I think your post shows -exactly- why they are never going to let us have a DPS meter or anything like recount.

The game would devolve into people complaining about numbers.
It's the same thing that happened in WoW or when they put in "Gear score".

The developers want the game to be about getting the boss down and having fun. They don't want it to be number crunching and hyper-competitiveness. They don't want it to devolve into the haves and the have-nots. We get enough of that in real life.

Games should be fun.
The game is already about numbers. It's pretty much all numbers in fact.

We already have gearscore in swtor. It's called "Armor rating"

Some people have fun doing the best they can, not just showing up for a participation trophy. Shouldn't they enjoy their game rather than be judged as bad people because they want to do better?

The "haves" and the "have nots" already exist as expected. Go read the dozens of posts about gear gaps and gear grinds. As long as there are gear levels, this will be so.

Why add even more instances we can do in an hour or two? We will still run out of challenged quickly and be back to farming and/or being bored.

I think dumbing down a game so everyone can "just have fun" ultimately leads to mediocrity and boredom and lost customers. People are complaining about the lack of end game content as it is.
Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast