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You are aware of how terrible expertise is?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
You are aware of how terrible expertise is?

paladinjb's Avatar


paladinjb
02.14.2012 , 02:31 PM | #11
The real trick is using battlemaster gear, but using different mods. Oh no, the cat is out of the bag!

Exaro's Avatar


Exaro
02.14.2012 , 02:31 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Chargolith View Post
You are aware that even if it's only 10%, that translates to a difference of 20% between you and a non-pvp geared character? You do 10% more, they do 10% less.

Tell you what, go put on your best pve gear and go do some wz's. Then come back and cry about how OP full bm gear is.
I have full BM and full rakata, as an avid PvPer lately i've just been entering WZ's with my rakata gear because: I am too lazy to switch and I do the same amount of damage or more.

Perhaps I take more damage - but not a noticeable amount or enough to make me switch gear constantly.

If only the game had a wardrobe feature...

ErrantMercenary's Avatar


ErrantMercenary
02.14.2012 , 02:32 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by dorkvid View Post
First off, it caps at 15% with soft cap around 13 in full BM. Source? Full BM Rage Juggernaut here. Now you say that expertise is useless? Let's run through a quick scenario:

In full BM gear, let's say you have 17k health and deal 1700 dps. Compare this to someone in full PvE with 20k health doing 1800 dps. Due to expertise, the PvE man will do 1592 dps while the BM will do 1921 dps. How long does it take to kill each other, assuming no heals or anything? 10.67 seconds for PvE to kill BM, 10.4 seconds for BM to kill PvE. Now, if you add ANY heals into the mix, PvP man goes so much better it's not even funny. The increase in health/main stat is not worth the damage +/- ratio of expertise. And this is just calculated with 13% expertise vs roughly full rakata PvE. Any lower gear in PvE and the PvP health is MUCH closer, so the expertise is crazy useful. Kthxbai
The problem that he's highlighting isn't Full Battlemaster versus Full Rakata though. The problem with the system currently is that the expertise soft cap is so low (~500, easily achievable even without full Champion gear much less full Battlemaster) that once you get to a point of sufficient diminishing returns, the player's best option is to put Rakata gear in the remaining slots because the gains in primary stats will still scale up linearly while the respective loss in Expertise will amount to a minimal loss because of the lost effectiveness of an extra point of Expertise. In the current model, it's very much possible to get 20k HP, do 1800 DPS AND have ~500 expertise, which makes it unreasonably tough on Battlemasters doing 1700 DPS, using 17-18k HP, and having ~650 expertise.

In that scenario, even though the Battlemaster has more PvP gear, and will still lose out because the damage gains from the extra Primary Stat scale linearly, whereas the gains on expertise are asymptotically approaching zero.
Don't worry guys, my motorcycle safety course was three whole days.

Elysion's Avatar


Elysion
02.14.2012 , 02:36 PM | #14
I like the system how it currently is.

In order to get the best gear you need to pvp, pve, and craft.

Its like a complete game experience!

kalexkhan's Avatar


kalexkhan
02.14.2012 , 02:36 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by paladinjb View Post
The real trick is using battlemaster gear, but using different mods. Oh no, the cat is out of the bag!
This ends the thread.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
02.14.2012 , 02:36 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Exaro View Post
I have full BM and full rakata, as an avid PvPer lately i've just been entering WZ's with my rakata gear because: I am too lazy to switch and I do the same amount of damage or more.

Perhaps I take more damage - but not a noticeable amount or enough to make me switch gear constantly.

If only the game had a wardrobe feature...
If you have full Rakata you're probably not too worried about dying either.

On offense, ignoring any set bonus imbalances, Rakata does slightly less damage than BM, but since there are set bonus imbalances that tend to favor PvE set bonuses, this is usually about even.

Survivality is lower in Rakata mostly because you take damage at the same rate as a fraction of your health (slightly more in Rakata really), but it's far easier for a healer to full up 16K HP (full BM) than 19K HP (Rakata) no matter who your healer is. Thus, even though a BM and Rakata loses health at comparable rate (as a % of health), it is always easier to get the BM guy back up.

Put it another way, if you're given the option to lose 50% of your health permanently and reduce damage taken by 50%, you should definitely always take it since this would make med packs/heals way overpowered on you.

Calitri's Avatar


Calitri
02.14.2012 , 02:37 PM | #17
Yes it's a terrible stat, take it away!

mBass's Avatar


mBass
02.14.2012 , 02:44 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by AndantePhist View Post
You wont have 17k hp in full BM gear... more like 16k hp if you go your damage/healing set (not tank stat)... also in full BM you will have roughly 1300 unbuffed of your main dps stat (str/aim/cunning/will)


I'm at 16500 and 1475 in mostly champion gear.... don't exaggerate.

DestyOwn's Avatar


DestyOwn
02.14.2012 , 02:44 PM | #19
BM Gear with Rakata Mods .... nothing come close
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Exaro's Avatar


Exaro
02.14.2012 , 03:27 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If you have full Rakata you're probably not too worried about dying either.

On offense, ignoring any set bonus imbalances, Rakata does slightly less damage than BM, but since there are set bonus imbalances that tend to favor PvE set bonuses, this is usually about even.

Survivality is lower in Rakata mostly because you take damage at the same rate as a fraction of your health (slightly more in Rakata really), but it's far easier for a healer to full up 16K HP (full BM) than 19K HP (Rakata) no matter who your healer is. Thus, even though a BM and Rakata loses health at comparable rate (as a % of health), it is always easier to get the BM guy back up.

Put it another way, if you're given the option to lose 50% of your health permanently and reduce damage taken by 50%, you should definitely always take it since this would make med packs/heals way overpowered on you.
I know what you're saying but I'm saying the impact isn't huge - and my healer can out-heal 5 people on me anyway so whatever.