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An Elegant (partial) Solution to Medals and Objectives in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
An Elegant (partial) Solution to Medals and Objectives in PvP

justregularjoe's Avatar


justregularjoe
02.13.2012 , 06:03 PM | #11
Seems my suggestion is not very well received. I guess there wasn't enough whining and complaining in it.

Val-Jean's Avatar


Val-Jean
09.10.2012 , 08:13 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by justregularjoe View Post
TLDR: Medals should be awarded on a team stat and objective basis, rather than on an individual basis, to award teamwork and discourage medal farming.



*Please read in full before responding*


One of the hardest things to contemplate in this game is the medal system. A system that punishes those that do objectives, and awards those that farm kills. A system that awards a sorcerer for standing in the corner using consumption and healing himself. A system that awards a tank for guarding someone and going AFK. A system that awards people for completely ignoring objectives and putting an "I" in team.


What I propose is an elegant solution to this entire mess. My solution would homogenize medals, taking the emphasis off of personal statistics and igniting the need for focused competitive teamwork. Because, lets face it, If I get 9 medals in a match and my team loses, I still got rewarded more than most of the people on my team for a loss because I ignored the objectives and farmed. Medals should be awarded on a team basis. Similar to how there are individual medals for damage, healing, objectives, and guarding, these stats should now be applied on a team level.

So for instance the first damage medal would be achieved at 500,000 team damage. The second at 1.5 Million. You could iterate this over healing, objectives, and guards. I would like the assassination medal and killing blow medal to remain individual, as those are a One-time medal, and don't' require an entire game of farming to achieve. In addition, valor and commendations would be awarded per objective cap team-wide. In other words, bonus valor and commendations would be awarded for every score in Huttball. For Civil War, the wining team would get bonus valor and commendations based on how many resources (ship integrity) they had remaining. For Voidstar, you would receive bonus valor and commendations for how many Doors your team successfully defended and capped.


Why These Changes Would Be Fantastic For the Entire Game:

First off, clearly it makes it much more beneficial to do the actual objectives in the game
Solo Farming kills would be ineffective, and be actually hurting your team AND you, instead of just your team
It would encourage teamwork
It would encourage more healing to be done
It would encourage more objectives completed
It would allow under-geared players to be competitive even on a team where they were out-geared, because it would benefit everyone
It would help your faction get rewards faster
It would discourage arguing and QQing, as all rewards are shared.


It would be important that the rewards from completing objectives completely overshadowed those gained from Individual awards.

Reasons why People may be against this with rebuttals:

1. It isn't fair to the players who are getting all the kills to award people who are not working as hard.
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Rebuttal: The healers are not getting kills while they heal you, and the person capping the ball isn't getting those kills while he scores for the team. Yet, you reap the benefits of both of those aforementioned roles, and they get nothing. Teamwide rewards would allow everyone working together to gain more together.

2. But that would allow fresh 50s to get valor and commendations as fast as me in my Full Champ/Battlemaster!
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Rebuttal: You are leagues ahead of a fresh 50 in gear and likely valor, assuming he hasn't done low level PvP for 40 levels. Because everyone in your Warzone will gain at a fair rate, it helps your faction to gear faster, which will result in better gear on players that you have to play with, which will result in overall a better chance of more wins. This change would HELP full Champs/BM who need their wins, not hurt them.

3. I consistently get 9 medals solo in a game, without a healer or tank helping me. I don't need team-wide medals to reap the benefits.
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Rebuttal: That is exactly the reason I propose this. For me to get nine medals in a game, more than likely I am killing people or healing all game non-stop, sometimes at the cost of objectives. I am actively seeking a fight to get these medals, because they will grant me greater reward than winning the game with 3 medals. Rather than guarding turrets in Civil War for instance, I am leaving the post unattended to get more medals because we are losing anyway, and I can get more personal gain from that. This proposal removes that need.

4. But I Have epeen ! I like being the top person with medals and damage ! People must fear me and know my name !
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Rebuttal: They still will. Your name will still be at the top when people click damage to sort who did the most. Everyone will see how many kills you had. Besides, if you are in a WZ, you can usually tell in the first 5 minutes who is really good and needs to be targeted and brought down. Don't worry, making medals team-wide will NOT screw your Epeen - you will still be prominently displayed at the top.

5. So, if I get put on a team full of bad people, I have to rely on them accomplishing things for myself to get any personal reward !?
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That is why it is called teamwork. Some games you will end up with 11 medals, and 6 huttball caps pulling in insane valor and commendations, and other games you might only get 5 and a few caps, but it would even out over time. Besides, when someone like the person who doesn't care about the team and just individually farms medals is in a WZ, it would encourage them to help the team to win, instead of complain how bad everyone is. The medals wouldn't even be that hard to obtain...you are telling me 8 50s cannot obtain 1.5Mil damage?


I can't think of really, any reason why anyone would be against this idea except for the reasons I listed, so I invite you to make up one or post one. But just remember: This idea would help your entire faction, it would help you to win more because the focus would be on objectives and not farming medals, it would increase the chances of winning because your teammates would get geared faster, and it would balance the role of ball carrier/door and turret guarders/healers/ support in every game.


I strongly believe that if this was implemented, we would see a massive revival in PvP in this game. I know I for one would be more than happy to play my lvl 50 Sorc healer again if it were so.


Finally, I believe that if you disagree with me 100% completely, as some may, that you should crusade for a death match option in PvP. A simple battleground with one goal: first team to 100 kills wins. There your epeen could shine brightly, but in objective based PvP, objectives need to reward the most valor/commendations.

Thank you for reading.

as a bonus, please take a look at this. This 100% exemplifies why i made this post, and why I feel it is such a great idea:

I scored all the points 4 my team in huttball...

edit:

I personally think the entire medal system is complete junk. The only thing that should give extra valor/commendations are completing objectives, but BW clearly wants the archaic medal system in their game, so this is my best shot at balancing it to make objectives the focus and not individual stats.
I like everything about this. And for the people who don't want to be on a losing team, they LEAVE the warzone anyway, so it would be no worse than it already is, especially late at night (I stick it out, of course).

Graziell's Avatar


Graziell
09.11.2012 , 02:08 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by justregularjoe View Post
SNIP

1. It isn't fair to the players who are getting all the kills to award people who are not working as hard.
------------------------
Rebuttal: The healers are not getting kills while they heal you, and the person capping the ball isn't getting those kills while he scores for the team. Yet, you reap the benefits of both of those aforementioned roles, and they get nothing. Teamwide rewards would allow everyone working together to gain more together.

First, healers do get kills. I'm usually leading in kills with my sawbones scoundrel. Second, every zerger can teill himself now that he/she is helping the team.

2. But that would allow fresh 50s to get valor and commendations as fast as me in my Full Champ/Battlemaster!
-------------------------
Rebuttal: You are leagues ahead of a fresh 50 in gear and likely valor, assuming he hasn't done low level PvP for 40 levels. Because everyone in your Warzone will gain at a fair rate, it helps your faction to gear faster, which will result in better gear on players that you have to play with, which will result in overall a better chance of more wins. This change would HELP full Champs/BM who need their wins, not hurt them.
Fresh 50 already gain BM quite fast. Recruit can suicide defend, plant bombs, give sent/maro speed buff, sometimes even solo cap nodes, dps/hps quite well, spot enemies, call incs, call cleared incs etc. Its not the fact they are fresh 50er that does not let them catch up aka gain enough medals, its their lack of pvp expierence (valor<50 etc)

3. I consistently get 9 medals solo in a game, without a healer or tank helping me. I don't need team-wide medals to reap the benefits.
------------------------
Rebuttal: That is exactly the reason I propose this. For me to get nine medals in a game, more than likely I am killing people or healing all game non-stop, sometimes at the cost of objectives. I am actively seeking a fight to get these medals, because they will grant me greater reward than winning the game with 3 medals. Rather than guarding turrets in Civil War for instance, I am leaving the post unattended to get more medals because we are losing anyway, and I can get more personal gain from that. This proposal removes that need.
IIRC you get 110 Comms with 3 medals. Might be 100, but im pretty sure its over 100. So objective play that leads to winning will net more.

4. But I Have epeen ! I like being the top person with medals and damage ! People must fear me and know my name !
------------------------
Rebuttal: They still will. Your name will still be at the top when people click damage to sort who did the most. Everyone will see how many kills you had. Besides, if you are in a WZ, you can usually tell in the first 5 minutes who is really good and needs to be targeted and brought down. Don't worry, making medals team-wide will NOT screw your Epeen - you will still be prominently displayed at the top.

5. So, if I get put on a team full of bad people, I have to rely on them accomplishing things for myself to get any personal reward !?
--------------------------
That is why it is called teamwork. Some games you will end up with 11 medals, and 6 huttball caps pulling in insane valor and commendations, and other games you might only get 5 and a few caps, but it would even out over time. Besides, when someone like the person who doesn't care about the team and just individually farms medals is in a WZ, it would encourage them to help the team to win, instead of complain how bad everyone is. The medals wouldn't even be that hard to obtain...you are telling me 8 50s cannot obtain 1.5Mil damage? Sometimes no. WH geared brain afk rage smasher or pyros that to abyssmal dmg compared to the class potential.


I can't think of really, any reason why anyone would be against this idea except for the reasons I listed, so I invite you to make up one or post one.
System can and will encourage abuse. You can stealth afk someplace save and receive 8 medals.

SNIP
as a bonus, please take a look at this. This 100% exemplifies why i made this post, and why I feel it is such a great idea:

I scored all the points 4 my team in huttball...

Of couse this is believeable since its pre 1.2. Apparently you forgot to add this to prove your whole objective play post. You would achieve 10k+ objective points nowdays.
Higher Medals for bads wont make them better. Sentinals that have transcendence not even clickable because they deem it useless, dds with unbound spot keys, people not buying recruit gear, commandos wearing unmodded vanguard tank gear, keyboard turners, backpeddlars - all these people can stand around a zerged turret all day long and farm defender point - they'll still underperform.

I think your proposal is quite interesting, and I would welcome the change for a performing team. But I have my doubts that bads will get better through this.

Leiralei's Avatar


Leiralei
09.11.2012 , 02:28 AM | #14
If the medals and rewards were more teambased then mvp votes would have a chance to mean something more than they do now.

I play for objectives and usually do awful at damage. Well, I play a tank, but still. Most of the time 0 mvp unless I'm running with people I know who know that it was me holding off 5 at the other door in voidstar so my team could cap (no medal and awful damage trying to just survive long enough), me protecting the ball carrier with well timed stuns, grapples, leap-rootings (no medals or objective points because I never carried it), me not capping while my teammate is capping but standing guard with stuns and stealthscan ready (no objective points or medals or damage).

On a fast game it's rare I'll even make 75k, because I'm the one being attacked for peeling off the healer.

The 2-3 medals I can maybe get from guarding teammates does help, but there's no recognition for what I do every single game to try to ensure the win for the team. Not just me, but everyone else who does play objectives and don't all try to cap just to get the medal.
:: लीर :: Commando :: Sage :: Scoundrel :: Guardian :: Powertech :: Assassin :: Operative :: Jugg :: Bioware Fangirl since NWN... RIP Bioware
Did they take out insurance on this game? I love it but its so weird.

mtsr's Avatar


mtsr
09.11.2012 , 03:37 AM | #15
Ranged gets screwed over in medals on Voidstar.
We cover the door but don't stand by the door...
From the KOTORS *8 years exp in mmo's