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Midi-chlorians VS. Mitochondria!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Midi-chlorians VS. Mitochondria!

MustrumRidcully's Avatar


MustrumRidcully
02.10.2012 , 04:11 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by NuclearPanda View Post
How do we know that the mitochondria don't already have that "something extra" and that we just don't know how to properly "communicate" with it yet? See my example about boosting the mitochondria to increase ATP (energy) production.

And you're a little mistaken about chlorophyl (specifically chloroplasts which are in plant cells). That is what converts sunlight to glucose (sugar). The mitochondria are still within plant cells and convert that glucose into ATP (energy).


When I saw the thread title again, I just started to wonder about the name that I used for what I meant. I was thinking the sentence half in German, or at least I wasn't sure whether I wrote the German or the English word (and in either case, it should have been Chloroplasts. (And yes, it's not directly converting sunlight into "energy". Though, well, glucose basically is energy in a form the organism can store and use.)

But I thought the idea fitted a little better, because if the force is an "energy field", the analogy to chloroplasts worked better. Or so I thought...

psandak's Avatar


psandak
02.10.2012 , 04:12 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by omninull View Post
No, mitochondria is not magic. Mitochondria just allows for some pretty decent aerobic respiration. Even if it did have some mysterious power, it's not going to maintain that for billions of years of evolution without seeing any use.
Take it from the opposite side then...

Maybe we and mitochondria have the potential to evolve a method of communication that the OP is suggesting.

The point is the same - midi-chlorians and mitochondria...maybe a correlation exists. Maybe Lucas did not just pull it out of thin air; almost all science fiction is at least loosely grounded in reality.

I am not saying I like the concept of midi-chlorians, in fact I don't, but what the OP is suggesting gives it a little more validity.

Joonbeams's Avatar


Joonbeams
02.10.2012 , 05:05 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Take it from the opposite side then...

Maybe we and mitochondria have the potential to evolve a method of communication that the OP is suggesting.

The point is the same - midi-chlorians and mitochondria...maybe a correlation exists. Maybe Lucas did not just pull it out of thin air; almost all science fiction is at least loosely grounded in reality.

I am not saying I like the concept of midi-chlorians, in fact I don't, but what the OP is suggesting gives it a little more validity.
First there is no dispute that the inspiration for midichlorians came from mitochondria. Lucas:

"Midi-chlorians are a loose depiction of mitochondria, which are necessary components for cells to divide. They probably had something--which will come out someday--to do with the beginnings of life and how one cell decided to become two cells with a little help from this other little creature who came in, without whom life couldn't exist. And it's really a way of saying we have hundreds of little creatures who live on us, and without them, we all would die. There wouldn't be any life. They are necessary for us; we are necessary for them. Using them in the metaphor, saying society is the same way, says we all must get along with each other."
I really don't understand why the enthusiasts hate this concept so much. The midichlorians aren't the force, they are organisms that help sense/interact with the force. The force exists entirely without midichlorians.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
02.10.2012 , 05:15 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Joonbeams View Post
First there is no dispute that the inspiration for midichlorians came from mitochondria. Lucas:

"Midi-chlorians are a loose depiction of mitochondria, which are necessary components for cells to divide. They probably had something--which will come out someday--to do with the beginnings of life and how one cell decided to become two cells with a little help from this other little creature who came in, without whom life couldn't exist. And it's really a way of saying we have hundreds of little creatures who live on us, and without them, we all would die. There wouldn't be any life. They are necessary for us; we are necessary for them. Using them in the metaphor, saying society is the same way, says we all must get along with each other."
I really don't understand why the enthusiasts hate this concept so much. The midichlorians aren't the force, they are organisms that help sense/interact with the force. The force exists entirely without midichlorians.
This.

Midi-Chlorians are little represenatives of the force, and they show the amount of potential one has.

And I don't get why so many hate it.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Valgranth's Avatar


Valgranth
02.10.2012 , 05:19 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by NuclearPanda View Post
With mitochondria being responsible for making things work, EVERYTHING work, what if we were able to "communicate" with it in some way?
Communication requires a reciprocal understanding. I take your point to mean that the mitochondria might respond, in some way, to neurological or biochemical processes in the human organism, which sounds plausible and removes much of the mysticism. And probably already functions like that.

Quote:
By this I mean what if I could somehow stimulate those mitochondria to produce immense amounts of ATP, energizing my body to give super human strength? Attain speeds beyond belief? Propel my body to acrobatic feats of "Jedi-like" proportions? Manipulate mitochondria around me in other beings/organisms/molecules to suit my biddings?
Why would mitochondria have the ability to "unlock" these latent powers? Why would they remain untapped if their attainment could have suited human biology previously? By what scientific mechanisms could this possibly work?
"Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings always darker, emptier, simpler."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

omninull's Avatar


omninull
02.10.2012 , 06:40 PM | #16
As fun as it is to entertain the thought, there is no notion whatsoever that suggests mitochondria have some mysterious untapped potential.

omninull's Avatar


omninull
02.11.2012 , 01:32 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Take it from the opposite side then...

Maybe we and mitochondria have the potential to evolve a method of communication that the OP is suggesting.

The point is the same - midi-chlorians and mitochondria...maybe a correlation exists. Maybe Lucas did not just pull it out of thin air; almost all science fiction is at least loosely grounded in reality.

I am not saying I like the concept of midi-chlorians, in fact I don't, but what the OP is suggesting gives it a little more validity.
What is the opposite side? I'm not talking about opinions, I'm talking more on the grounds of scientific wisdom.

Solosus's Avatar


Solosus
02.11.2012 , 01:57 AM | #18
scientific wisdom, that made me chuckle, don't be so myopic, your so called scientific wisdom keeps chaging depending on which theory or knowledge is found to be in line with the majority of core principles, perhaps a little research might enlighten one some in that regard.

Scientific wisdom gave us many of the now considered malpracticed medicine of the past, scientific wisdom is bound my CURRENT knowledge constraints, as such, the whole physics debate on the ever expanding universe which is now widely accepted was not even a decade ago an impossibility.

So i leave you with this, we may have mapped DNA, but we still do not know the function of every part of the brain down to its cell level, we have a general idea, hence why brain surgery is generally performed while the patient is conscious as to assertain which functions are being tampared with in said surgery, that's how far we still need to go in modern medicine.

omninull's Avatar


omninull
02.11.2012 , 06:17 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Solosus View Post
scientific wisdom, that made me chuckle, don't be so myopic, your so called scientific wisdom keeps chaging depending on which theory or knowledge is found to be in line with the majority of core principles, perhaps a little research might enlighten one some in that regard.

Scientific wisdom gave us many of the now considered malpracticed medicine of the past, scientific wisdom is bound my CURRENT knowledge constraints, as such, the whole physics debate on the ever expanding universe which is now widely accepted was not even a decade ago an impossibility.

So i leave you with this, we may have mapped DNA, but we still do not know the function of every part of the brain down to its cell level, we have a general idea, hence why brain surgery is generally performed while the patient is conscious as to assertain which functions are being tampared with in said surgery, that's how far we still need to go in modern medicine.

Mitochondria is a rather simple structure, using the brain as a comparison is a profoundly absurd comparison that only an individual tentatively versed in biology would suggest. Scientific wisdom advanced human society 1000 years in a matter of decades. To scoff at our best known process to understand natural laws only exposes you as an intellectual charlatan. An idea that our universe is expanding is not absurd, proving it is something else. The idea that mitochondria manipulates the force (all we need to do is "talk" to them), assumes there is already a force to manipulate as well as billions of years of mitochondria retaining these evolutionary traits just waiting for us to one day use them. If the force exists, mitochondria does not have the machinery or structural complexity to suggest it does anything else other than aerobic respiration through the Calvin Cycle. All it does it generate ATP, which releases more energy upon breaking down into ADP than it takes to create ATP from ADP.

I will say that how efficiently mitochondria produces ATP does affect your ability to perform in many different aspects. As you age, your mitochondria ages, and performs with less efficiency.

NuclearPanda's Avatar


NuclearPanda
02.11.2012 , 10:23 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Valgranth View Post
Why would mitochondria have the ability to "unlock" these latent powers? Why would they remain untapped if their attainment could have suited human biology previously? By what scientific mechanisms could this possibly work?
Well, I liken it to the 100lb mother who observes a tragic accident and a car is on top of someone and through the adrenalin rush and release of energy and endorphins in her own body above and beyond normal she is somehow able to lift the vehicle for a few crucial moments so the victim can escape.

Everything is energy, and the Mitochondria are responsible for the creation of this energy which our body uses.

I feel there are MANY "untapped" latent abilities we could be capable of but either haven't harnessed it yet or evolved that far.

Crap, even DARPA has been experimenting with low level electrical charges running through the brain which has been proved to increase learning/awareness/recognition. Like hooking up a 9 volt battery to your head and suddenly for some reason you're smarter. (I can link the articles when I find them again. lol)
Thank god I'm an Arsenal DPS and not a Bodyguard healer. Patch 1.2 is going to make them worthless.