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Getting forced into Romance: Sorta spoiler

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Getting forced into Romance: Sorta spoiler

bright_ephemera's Avatar


bright_ephemera
01.22.2013 , 06:05 PM | #31
Link (the one to an earlier BW response on the topic) is fixed, Tatile, thanks for pointing that out.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.22.2013 , 06:24 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by bright_ephemera View Post
So...if you act inviting early in the evening, you're asking for anything, and I mean anything, that may happen thereafter. You're the one choosing to send signals; there's an obvious conclusion. When you actually get near the ftb and find that there's a checkpoint where you cannot say no, it's entirely your fault for putting yourself in that position and you've got no one to blame but yourself.

That reasoning is unacceptable in real life and I think it excuses nothing in game. "No" should always, always, always, always, always be a permitted answer.
No. What I'm saying is comparing a horrible real life experience to a game play mechanic that can only be started off by how you pick the chat options, is two completely different things.

The game goes "Do you want this storyline or not" You select yes or no. It then gives you the storyline. The game doesn't know if you've changed your mind. The game doesn't know if you misclicked and didn't press ESC in time to redo the whole scene.

The fact that something so terrible gets used as an example for a game that, like I said before, has a pretty much linear storyline, is sad on so many levels.

This isn't to say don't ask for chat options that allow you to back out if you change your mind, this isn't to say dont ask for the questions to be properly labeled *Flirt...will start off the romance storyline by selecting this option* but it's a terrible comparison.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.22.2013 , 06:28 PM | #33
You're deliberately ignoring the fact that someone can be put into this situation without choosing options to initiate the romance. As was explained in the thread that Bright linked.

But you always do that.

bright_ephemera's Avatar


bright_ephemera
01.22.2013 , 06:34 PM | #34
For those curious: This Youtube playlist shows all possible paths through Elara Dorne's ftb conversation, Personal Effects. It's a fairly simple conversation; all three options on the first wheel lead to the second wheel, all three options on the second wheel lead to a ftb, there are no choices after the ftb.

The relevant can't-say-no option comes up at 0:49 in the first, 0:42 in the second, 0:52 in the third. Note that the most discouraging response the player can give is "Uh...I'm not sure?" and that leads to the exact same result as the positive responses.

If you [Flirt]ed with her earlier, (though at least with her you must have explicitly [Flirt]ed), you cannot finish her conversation line and unlock legacy buffs without going through this.

I feel very strongly that the game should account for the player changing his or her mind, especially in light of the companions that drop horrific backstory or plot actions on you mid-line.
Spoiler
all gave me staggeringly unpalatable reveals immediately before Progressing The Romance Plot, or trying to. To progress a linear storyline that involves repeated sexual advances long after the player has asked to stop is...well, sick.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.22.2013 , 06:38 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
You're deliberately ignoring the fact that someone can be put into this situation without choosing options to initiate the romance. As was explained in the thread that Bright linked.

But you always do that.
No I wasn't. I even mentioned it. I said "don't stop asking it to be fixed" But it's still the game going "You selected the I want this storyline option" It's very much different than the real life situation.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.22.2013 , 06:48 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by bright_ephemera View Post
For those curious: This Youtube playlist shows all possible paths through Elara Dorne's ftb conversation, Personal Effects. It's a fairly simple conversation; all three options on the first wheel lead to the second wheel, all three options on the second wheel lead to a ftb, there are no choices after the ftb.

The relevant can't-say-no option comes up at 0:49 in the first, 0:42 in the second, 0:52 in the third. Note that the most discouraging response the player can give is "Uh...I'm not sure?" and that leads to the exact same result as the positive responses.

If you [Flirt]ed with her earlier, (though at least with her you must have explicitly [Flirt]ed), you cannot finish her conversation line and unlock legacy buffs without going through this.

I feel very strongly that the game should account for the player changing his or her mind, especially in light of the companions that drop horrific backstory or plot actions on you mid-line.
Spoiler
all gave me staggeringly unpalatable reveals immediately before Progressing The Romance Plot, or trying to. To progress a linear storyline that involves repeated sexual advances long after the player has asked to stop is...well, sick.
Something else I've kept mentioning before. For TOR being the storyline mmo, it's no different than any other mmo, except each class has a storyline and not every character has the same storyline.

This isn't a choose your path storyline. It just gives the illusion of choice, and all end up in the same basic place, having gotten there basically the same way.

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
01.22.2013 , 06:52 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
No I wasn't. I even mentioned it. I said "don't stop asking it to be fixed" But it's still the game going "You selected the I want this storyline option" It's very much different than the real life situation.
The situations where there are no options other than ftb in a conversation are not acceptable. Not in the least. And that isn't a bug, that's a choice the designers made. My assumption is that they didn't realize the implications of it, but it does create a situation where the player character literally cannot say 'no.'
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.22.2013 , 07:08 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
The situations where there are no options other than ftb in a conversation are not acceptable. Not in the least. And that isn't a bug, that's a choice the designers made. My assumption is that they didn't realize the implications of it, but it does create a situation where the player character literally cannot say 'no.'
I'd still call that the linear storytelling of "You chose YES" from the start. Though thinking on it, can't one just press esc, and not run that storyline untill "I want to back out" becomes an option or just never run it?

Still think it's a terrible comparison.

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
01.22.2013 , 07:59 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I'd still call that the linear storytelling of "You chose YES" from the start. Though thinking on it, can't one just press esc, and not run that storyline untill "I want to back out" becomes an option or just never run it?

Still think it's a terrible comparison.
That's your option to think it's a terrible comparison. I happen to think it is valid.

The idea that saying 'yes' early on negates any choice when it comes to sexual matters is unsupportable. End story. If you can't understand that...well...
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.22.2013 , 08:07 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
That's your option to think it's a terrible comparison. I happen to think it is valid.

The idea that saying 'yes' early on negates any choice when it comes to sexual matters is unsupportable. End story. If you can't understand that...well...
If you can't see the difference between a click yes or no option for a simple game storyline and real life tragedy...well...