Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The real reason Empire is more popular than Republic

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The real reason Empire is more popular than Republic

twileksrock's Avatar


twileksrock
09.19.2013 , 03:43 PM | #261
LOL! I always liked them because Im not always locked by having to be a goody two-shoes. I also like smugglers and troopers like that. Don't get me wrong I love my jedis but everyones so nice to them its hard for them to really be mean.

MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD
I really enjoy being the sith inquisitor and letting my anger out. I kinda had it in my head that my Sith Inquisitor really liked that girl (corey? something like that) who she calmed when they first met and was later killed, and after that sorta let it fester in her head until she had nothing but hatred for everyone and everything around her. Think about it slave plucked from nowhere to face almost certain death or be killed by some a-hole guy she doesn't even know. I bet she's really sick of her life being in other people's hands. So the first chance she got to let it out was torturing that guy projecting her hate on him, and found out she enjoyed it. Then forced to go on boring repetitive quests to tombs adds to her frustration, setting her up, and dealing with incompetent men and women who command her, She'd probably like to slap every pureblood ever, and kill anyone who ever called her slave in the begining.

I think its fun because anger is an emotion everyone can understand. We all have anger some daily, we even have anger at hard or boring missions. Its great to have your char reflect that and not be forced to do good for people who treat you bad. (My smuggler even though a slacker girl who cares mostly about money, is still out of place being mean but better as a jerk with a heart of gold.) Its really satisfying to treat stuck up commanders and self loving showoffs with no respect and then kill them without remorse. You don't have to be a conventional hero with perfect morals and even can be black and grey if you want. There's also tons of room for char development if you're not into the whole inner peace only persona.

You also get a good amount of control of people around you, people gravel before you, you choose the fates of prisoners, even spooky lords don't scare you, and even can evoke eyerolls. I personally take pleasure in seeing my scrawny little twi'lek reduce powerful masters to sniveling cowards.

Lastly the empire is a bit more mysterious, and a lot more simple. Everyones secretive, every thing is a new mystery. And yet it doesn't require tons of red tape morality. People tell you things you either Believe them or you don't. Empires/dictatorships are simple, the big guy/girl says the people do. Its somewhat comforting in a disturbing way not to always have political debates on ethics. Just care about you and saving your hide and rising above the idiots. Because you know what you want, and even better its encouraged for you to take what you want from life. Its an intriguing prospect that doesn't work in reality but can be experienced in games like this.

Its a great way to expirience stuff that would horrify any sane person and be in control of some of it in a safe way. Its a challenge for people like me who pretty much cover my eyes during horror movies and wish the victims would just chop up the guy with the axe instead of the other way. Thats what my sith inquisitor is, the victim who was pushed too far. And its revenge time

Lesaberisa's Avatar


Lesaberisa
09.19.2013 , 04:24 PM | #262
I'm editing my entire post because it's pretty clear any exercise in debate is pointless given your reliance on rhetoric and conjecture. I do want to point out that your definition of democracy is about as narrow as I've ever seen, particularly given that you apparently don't believe representative democracies are, in fact, democracies. All that aside...

Someone else said it perfectly

Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
So... why support the Empire at all? Instead of trying to fix the Republic?
The only thing you've come up with is "The Empire's fate is open-ended" which is a rather unconvincing justification given that the murderous Sith are in charge and the Emperor himself

Spoiler


I'm genuinely baffled as to how a tyranny run by a canonically evil religious order that you have no reason to believe will become benevolent and headed by an omnicidal Emperor, offers the best hope for a better future for the Star Wars galaxy.

Anyway, I'm done with this now.
Finest mediocre fanfic this side of the Outer Rim:Trooper / Inquisitor

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
09.19.2013 , 05:13 PM | #263
I'd like to take the oppurtunity to point out that the reason Coruscant's underlevels are in such dire straights is partly because of the destruction of infastructure doing the sacking of Coruscant - homes in the area now controlled by the migrant merchants guild are described as being destroyed in the war, for instance - the associated cost of restoring Coruscant being astronomical, and the fact CorSec has seen numerous cuts in both funding and personel, stretching their resources to the limit and allowing major intergalactic criminal organisations such as the Black Suns and factions such as the Justicars (who are secretly funded and supported by the Empire) to gain such a foothold. Where are CorSecs resources going? Largely the military, which has undergone dramatic expansion and recovery efforts following the last war.

Read into this what you will, but I don't personally see the Republic's inability to recover fully from the devastation of their capital world with a population in the trillions in a few short years as indicitative of some greater institutional corruption. This isn't kotor Taris.

Xakthul's Avatar


Xakthul
09.19.2013 , 05:22 PM | #264
The fact that they still haven't remotely started on their way to rebuilding Taris makes me wanna hit my head against a wall. It's been over 300 years since

Spoiler
Duelist Mixalot, Grand Champ Tellsa, Lord Saml, Apprentice Syynx, Captain Cirris, Skirmisher Janewei, Jedi Knight Jugger'not, Agent Ez'zio of <Wookies and Cream>, Harbinger
"Aim for the trolls! Kill the trolls!"- Gandalf

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
09.19.2013 , 06:18 PM | #265
To be fair, Taris is located in Imperial space right now, and was always a distant outer rim world before that. It's also full of rakghouls, poisonous waste, wreckage, and not a whole lot else. Considering that the post kotor era Republic was barely clinging to life and took quite some time to recover from the damage Revan and Malak inflicted, I imagine they had other priorities.

From what I remember of what Saresh said during the quests there, the Republic has already expended millions of credits and hundreds of lives just to get where they are. That's not a small committment.

Ausstig's Avatar


Ausstig
09.19.2013 , 07:28 PM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by Bleeters View Post

From what I remember of what Saresh said during the quests there, the Republic has already expended millions of credits and hundreds of lives just to get where they are. That's not a small committment.
So why did they not put these resources into fixing up their capital? At least the Sith have the excuse of 'making examples of revolts' (the slaves) and have dangers to 'test' themselves against. What is the Republic's excuse?
I found the Jedi Councilor really disappointing, mostly act 2-3.

Spoiler
Have Force lightning will travel

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
09.20.2013 , 12:40 AM | #267
Quote: Originally Posted by Ausstig View Post
So why did they not put these resources into fixing up their capital? At least the Sith have the excuse of 'making examples of revolts' (the slaves) and have dangers to 'test' themselves against. What is the Republic's excuse?
I'd love to answer, but a year on and I still have no idea why the Republic is rebuilding Taris.

Ausstig's Avatar


Ausstig
09.20.2013 , 11:50 PM | #268
Quote: Originally Posted by Bleeters View Post
I'd love to answer, but a year on and I still have no idea why the Republic is rebuilding Taris.
Oh that's easy,

To use as a military staging post for attacks against the heart of the Empire. Just look at it's position, perfect for staging and supplying large scale attacks on the key worlds of the Empire.

I think this shows that the Republic military have a massive say in allocating resources with in the Republic.
Have Force lightning will travel

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.21.2013 , 01:35 AM | #269
Quote: Originally Posted by Ausstig View Post
Oh that's easy,

To use as a military staging post for attacks against the heart of the Empire. Just look at it's position, perfect for staging and supplying large scale attacks on the key worlds of the Empire.

I think this shows that the Republic military have a massive say in allocating resources with in the Republic.
If all the Republic military wanted was a staging post against the Empire, there are several worlds that would work better at it, and which wouldn't require astronomical outlays of funds and manpower simply to prevent a base from being overrun. Bandomeer would work; it's also on the Hydian Way at the intersection with the Braxant Run, contains significant mining-related infrastructure, and notably doesn't play host to rakghouls. Botajef would be a similar solution; in addition to its location, the system even played host to a shipyard complex three and a half millennia later, although it's not clear whether it had one as early as SWTOR's time period. And so on.

It's also important to note that the Republic military hierarchy is clearly not fully supportive of the Taris project. General Garza openly mocks the whole thing during the Trooper's class story there, for instance, and judging by the widespread discontent in the Republic's ranks on the planet it's hard to imagine that that discontent wouldn't be mirrored among even more of the Republic's generals. Yes, obviously, some leaders in the Republic military (esp. the War Trust) would have had plenty of reason to back Taris' reconstruction for use as a military base, but it's hard to imagine them getting that done on their own.

Taris was chosen rather because military and political objectives synergized. Saresh and others got their symbol of hope and reconstruction; the War Trust and their ilk got their advance base for staging an assault on the Empire. In that sense, Taris is no more a sign of nefarious Republic militarism than any other project that has garnered funding and support from both military and civilian interests, like the Internet, the American interstate highway system, the Channel Tunnel, or McMurdo Station.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
09.21.2013 , 04:11 AM | #270
Quote: Originally Posted by BradTheImpaler View Post
What he says is absolutely irrelevant. He was installed by the Republic as President. Period. As for Zenith, no I didn't miss the point. He sends Zenith away because of Zenith's distrustful nature, and yes, the fact that he would destabilize things on Bamorra rather than help Tai consolidate his power.

Right, right..."we shall have peace". You surely understand just how loaded that claim can be.
Firstly, no, he was the last surviving member of an elected government, the Republic endorsement is irrelevant, he is the only person of the previously elected government alive (or at least alive and sane). If anyone else was put in charge then it would be a puppet government, but at moment it is Balmorrans trying to sort out Balmorra.

Secondly, yes it's a loaded claim, but he appears to be trying to fulfill it, and it is what Balmorra needs.

Quote:
That was a bit of hyperbole on my part, perhaps. Killing them may not be necessary, as righteous as it may seem, but it doesn't take a genius to know they probably wouldn't resign their positions of privilege willingly.
Killing because they might not do something is a flawed argument, killing because they have committed crimes or are dangerous I can understand, but because it's easier. not a good argument.

Quote:
Granted. You were just being unfair to the Agent. They both save the galaxy on some level.
No she wasn't being unfair to the agent, she said he saved the galaxy, but didn't ascribe he behaviour to benign intentions, because you can easily play the story as a power grab, at least thats how I read it.

Quote:
Whether you blame the Empire for the Republic's militarism or not, they have shown themselves capable of violence and massacre (heck, both sides get "we'll reward you for killing more" missions, but the Jedi claim to be pacifists when it's all said and done). Anyway, one should judge by actual societal behaviour, not law. If a society practices slavery, as the Republic practices economic slavery, then it doesn't matter what the law says officially. In fact I made the point earlier that it's a more insidious form. The Empire buys people, but the Republic just rents them.
The Republic is fighting an invading Empire, who do you expect us to blame. Can't remember any Jedi actually rewarding you for killing, might be a few cases were they send you to sort out a situation and you end up killing, but they would have accepted a peaceful solution. The Jedi knight even converts a Sith Pureblood if you let him, and the council welcomes him with open arms, they genuinely accept him and beginning training him as a Jedi.

Not sure about the point you're making about slavery though, ignoring the oversimplification of economics, how does force people to work for low wages equate to worse than not paying them at all. Let alone the fact that Imperial slaves have no legal protection from abuse, while even on the worst republic planet they have some, employers can't risk their employees needlessly.

Quote:
There's a difference between "I disagree" and "it doesn't make sense". It does. I know the Empire doesn't accept dissent (though as I said they occasionally have little choice in the matter). Again, you have a very narrow conception of what dissent is. It's a simple point---the Republic has learned that it's more effective to allow constant argument between a narrow range of opinions than to outright suppress all dissent.
Not as narrow a view as the empire, any discontent is stamped on, a slight political difference means outright war/murder/enslavement. Yes they occassionaly have slave rebellions, which they quickly quell (ie beat up or kill or hit with massive amounts of drugs or chemicals), and then find scapegoats to punish (kill)

Quote:
I explained how that's advantageous in building a resistance. Hegemony isn't a difficult concept to grasp, and the Republic uses it while the Empire does not try to pacify its citizens in this way. The Empire has a culture that accepts the use of force to bring change. The Republic does not. This is the advantage for those who want to really change the system.
Play the Sith Inquisitor, on Nar Shaddaa you take over a cult using it's influence to do exactly what you're accussing the Republic of doing. Also the Empire only accepts the use of force from the Sith and it's own military, it destroys any other example of strength, or subverts it into it's forces, which does not allow them to change the system.

Quote:
Nope, unless you're arguing that the Republic system of government and economy is dramatically different between those times. Fundamentally, it's still rotten at its core.
It has corruption, but the majority is not corrupt, even in Palpatines time there was very little corruption, it was just that Palpatine play the politics too well (distinct from corruption as it is the art of compromise which is the fundamental of democracy). No the corruption in the senate is a very small faction, it just fights dirty, rather like the Sith.

Quote:
There's a difference between individual corruption and systemic corruption. You can't simply dismiss corruption in the Republic on the basis that the game doesn't examine the lives of every one of the thousands of Senators in graphic detail. The glimpse they give you is meant to be representative of the larger whole.
But by the same logic you can't assume that every senator is corrupt, because the game doesn't examine the lives of thousands of senators.

Split for ease to reply
Peace can be found, above all passions. Through passion, I may gain strength.
Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
For every chain broken, new chains bind me. Only the Force can set me free.