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Order 66


JDTC's Avatar


JDTC
01.13.2012 , 05:05 PM | #21
murdering children wasnt really a necessary scene in a star wars movie haha, and i agree that the whole "falling to the dark side" aspect was incredibly rushed and sloppy in RotS.

its why i think RotS should have been the three prequel movies, with no TPM or AotC - they just werent necessary. stretching RotS over 3 movies would have given the screenwriters much more time to flesh out a believable, well-written fall from grace.

as it stands now, anakin was just sort of... hornswaggled into the dark side, not seduced by the dark side. he looked more like a dupe rather than a fallen jedi knight.
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.13.2012 , 05:11 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by JDTC View Post
murdering children wasnt really a necessary scene in a star wars movie haha, and i agree that the whole "falling to the dark side" aspect was incredibly rushed and sloppy in RotS.

its why i think RotS should have been the three prequel movies, with no TPM or AotC - they just werent necessary. stretching RotS over 3 movies would have given the screenwriters much more time to flesh out a believable, well-written fall from grace.

as it stands now, anakin was just sort of... hornswaggled into the dark side, not seduced by the dark side. he looked more like a dupe rather than a fallen jedi knight.
Um...they actually did stretch out Anakin's fall in all of the movies.

EP 1: Leaving his mother at a young age, this puts an emotional strain on him about wanting to free his mother which he goes to Tatooine on his own accord to do so.

EP 2: He kills an entire village of sand people in rage over the death of his mother, this was definitely flirting with the darkside. Later he falls in love with Padme which sets up for EP 3.

EP 3: Against his better judgement and the jedi teaching, he kills an unarmed person(Dooku) then he starts having visions of Padme dying. So in not wanting to lose her like his mother, seeks a way to save his loved one.

Palpatine(the devil) promises that he can give Anakin(a broken, confused man) the power he needs to save her. So its not rushed, if you pay attention you can see that by ROTS in Palpatine's office it makes sense. Anakin was already slowly falling towards the darkside over the course of the 3 movies, until he finally made his choice in helping kill Mace Windu that sealed it.
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arkanone's Avatar


arkanone
01.13.2012 , 05:14 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by WiGhTkNiGhtt View Post
I don't agree at all, If we see him properly turn to the Dark side at the end of Episode 2 somehow then it is much more believable that we see him slaughtering Children halfway through Episode 3 months later.

It is not a gradual change at all.
Not just that--he goes out and kills children without even having any proof that the dark side can rez his wife. No demonstration at all of this power and he's out killing children while his wife is perfectly healthy.

JDTC's Avatar


JDTC
01.13.2012 , 05:28 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Um...they actually did stretch out Anakin's fall in all of the movies.

EP 1: Leaving his mother at a young age, this puts an emotional strain on him about wanting to free his mother which he goes to Tatooine on his own accord to do so.

EP 2: He kills an entire village of sand people in rage over the death of his mother, this was definitely flirting with the darkside. Later he falls in love with Padme which sets up for EP 3.

EP 3: Against his better judgement and the jedi teaching, he kills an unarmed person(Dooku) then he starts having visions of Padme dying. So in not wanting to lose her like his mother, seeks a way to save his loved one.

Palpatine(the devil) promises that he can give Anakin(a broken, confused man) the power he needs to save her. So its not rushed, if you pay attention you can see that by ROTS in Palpatine's office it makes sense. Anakin was already slowly falling towards the darkside over the course of the 3 movies, until he finally made his choice in helping kill Mace Windu that sealed it.
the first two prequels arent needed to explain his fall to the dark side. it just makes it seem like he was evil from the time he was a kid, and by the time he was 20, he was already a genocidal maniac. it was less of a seduction to the dark side, and more like... the natural events of a disturbed murderer who can't deal with loss who is also friends with satan.

the whole thing just doesn't come off right. the events of the war, coinciding with palpatine actually luring anakin to the dark side, would have felt "better" and could have been done more effectively without episodes 1 and 2. also no kid anakin.

and like it was said above, anakin kills samuel l jackson without knowing if palpatine can actually do anything at all. but getting deeper into this will expand the topic way beyond the scope of this thread.
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SammyRath
01.13.2012 , 06:25 PM | #25
Quote:
the first two prequels arent needed to explain his fall to the dark side. it just makes it seem like he was evil from the time he was a kid
I haven't watched Episode 1 In a while, so please correct me If I'm wrong, but Anakin in Episode 1 was extremely kind, and seemed to always want the best for everyone.
He took in Qui-gon and the gang when they were strangers to shelter them from a sandstorm, and put his own life on the line to help them achieve their goal.

Quote:
and by the time he was 20, he was already a genocidal maniac.
He did not commit genocide, nor was he maniacal. He might have become pretty racist about the Sand People, but come on they are animals. All they have ever been shown to do in the films is attack innocents.

Quote:
it was less of a seduction to the dark side, and more like... the natural events of a disturbed murderer who can't deal with loss who is also friends with satan.
Apart from killing Sand People een masse, i think Episode 2 portrayed a pretty decent seduction, or at the very least temptation of the Dark Side. Obi-Wan tells Mace, and Yoda that Anakin's abilities have made him arrogant. He does display moments of arrogance, and anger, but he still goes back to the light.
And In the end he defies the Jedi Code, and secretly marries Padme.

Quote:
the whole thing just doesn't come off right. the events of the war, coinciding with palpatine actually luring anakin to the dark side, would have felt "better" and could have been done more effectively without episodes 1 and 2. also no kid anakin.
It was the point that those events came off somewhat suddenly. The End of the war, Anakin's fall, Order 66, all of these things had probably been planned for decades, so when the time came Sidious knew every move he had to make, step by step.
He let the domino's fall, and It worked.

Quote:
and like it was said above, anakin kills samuel l jackson without knowing if palpatine can actually do anything at all.
I agree there. He didn't have anything to go on except a Sith Legend told to him by Darth Sidious. He did however know that the Jedi could not do anything to prevent Padmes death. So in the end, when It came down to it, he didn't really have anywhere else to turn but the Dark Side. He acted out of fear, and desperation.

Quote:
but getting deeper into this will expand the topic way beyond the scope of this thread.
I agree, It's so easy to get sidetracked by good discussions wouldn't you say?

Quote:
One of the most powerful scenes in the entire saga, in my opinion.
I concur.

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DarkCarnivale
01.13.2012 , 07:00 PM | #26
I liked that scene too. Contrary to popular ideas, I like the prequels. Yeah they could have been better, yet since I'm a minimalist and a perfectionist, I'm quite happy that I've been able to experience the world that is Star Wars. My favorite line in EP 3 is

"YOU WILL NOT TAKE HER FROM ME!"

I think the acting is fine...

and the musical score "Across the Stars" is really, REALLY good.

Star Wars and Lord Of The Rings are my favorite "fictional" universes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xP3f...eature=related

As for his fall to the darkside, it may have seemed a little quick, yet, I don't know, I'm not so critical when it comes to entertainment, I still have my functional imagination that I had as a child, so it's all good.

Hidalgo's Avatar


Hidalgo
01.13.2012 , 07:13 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by JDTC View Post
it was less of a seduction to the dark side, and more like... the natural events of a disturbed murderer who can't deal with loss who is also friends with satan..
i agree, and this made me laugh.
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georgemattson's Avatar


georgemattson
01.13.2012 , 07:23 PM | #28
All of this might have been slightly easier to buy if there was any kind of acting in any of these movies. Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman have as much emotional connection as two potholes in the middle of main street (and only slightly more personality). Heck, the cardboard cutout of Bruce Lee that they used to represent him in Game of Death had more dimensions than these two.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Um...they actually did stretch out Anakin's fall in all of the movies.

EP 1: Leaving his mother at a young age, this puts an emotional strain on him about wanting to free his mother which he goes to Tatooine on his own accord to do so.
Yeah, he was obviously very broken up about this. Either that, or Jake Lloyd had gas. Hard to tell, since it was such a fantastic acting job.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
EP 2: He kills an entire village of sand people in rage over the death of his mother, this was definitely flirting with the darkside. Later he falls in love with Padme which sets up for EP 3.
Okay, this one was at least somewhat okay, although he did seem about as upset as a teenager protesting an early curfew.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
EP 3: Against his better judgement and the jedi teaching, he kills an unarmed person(Dooku) then he starts having visions of Padme dying. So in not wanting to lose her like his mother, seeks a way to save his loved one.
The Dooku thing was probably the least painful scene out of all the "hey, he's converting to the dark side" scenes, so I was okay with this. The visions were rather lame, though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Palpatine(the devil) promises that he can give Anakin(a broken, confused man) the power he needs to save her. So its not rushed, if you pay attention you can see that by ROTS in Palpatine's office it makes sense. Anakin was already slowly falling towards the darkside over the course of the 3 movies, until he finally made his choice in helping kill Mace Windu that sealed it.
Overall, I think the whole thing works better in a written summary, where we don't have to deal with Jake Lloyd, Natalie Portman, or Hayden Christensen. In other words, as long as we don't actually have to watch any of the movies.

PartVI's Avatar


PartVI
01.16.2012 , 05:25 AM | #29
Anakin's fall isn't believable. It's sloppy, riddled with holes that two TV series, countless books and comics and THREE MOVIES couldn't cover right.

Sentient beings don't work like this. They can't be tempted by the promise of power if the only requirement is senseless killing. Especially children. For something like this, you pay with your soul and nothing else. It's an evil enough closer. Murdering kids is too far over the top, Anakin should have realized what he was getting into at that point.

That he didn't is a sign of serious mental illness. This is not something that switches on. These have symptoms. They onset gradually. Being a prominent military figure wielding more power than all but like 50-100 beings in the known universe would kind of require people to have a mental profile on you and, frankly, if a jedi head doctor couldn't figure out this kid's issues they deserved to get stamped out anyway.

Both points lead to the same conclusion: The scene of his final fall was meaningless - it's senselessness utterly failing to evoke any sympathy from me, Order 66 was an eyerollingly corny murder **** montage and Lucas went too far trying to create a shock reaction by depicting his best known character murdering helpless children.

Lots of fail all around folks. If you don't agree, well, Lucas wouldn't be swimming in a pool full of benjamins if not for you right?

zejaie's Avatar


zejaie
01.16.2012 , 05:35 AM | #30
While we are on the subject of order 66, why the heck did Yoda and Obi Wan split up? They should have gone together to fight the emperor and then gone together to kill Vader. After all, Obi Wan said he would not be able to kill Anakin didn't he? That basicly set them both up to fail. Yoda making the greatest mistake any Jedi can make, underestimating the dark side. What is wrong with that writing??????? I don't get it.
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