Well you can visit any major MMO forums if you want proof for that as well as just any gaming forums. My deduction came from my time on sites like mmorpg.com, mmohut.com, subs on Reddit of upcoming games with subs (like WIldstar, TESO, etc.) and many others. Even Reddit's /r/swtor which generally is a decent place with occasional SWTOR Dev visits occasionally complains of it. While i know sites like mmorpg.com are a cesspool of the gaming community, a customer is a customer and they do complain a lot about games with cash shops.

That's just dumb.

Anyone with any knowledge of the business knows that MMO forums are only where a fragment of the population gathers - most don't ever even come here or lay eyes on this place. That's why they have twitter and facebook for the sites - to get the word out to the majority who don't give a poop about posting on the forums.

Why does it need a Cartel Market to do that? The two most successful MMO's of all time did perfectly fine without one, and many of the others did and do so with no extra cost.

 

What do you think would happen if they had spent that money to do everything they did, and provided it included with subscription?

 

Sure, they would not have had any injection of CM revenue but luring back even 500k former players (1/3 to 1/4 of those who left) would equate to $7,500,000 of new revenue per month. That is equivalent to selling 350,000 Ewoks per month.

Thing is, their statements seem to indicate that the CM provides them with the revenue of around 500k(500k subs, doubled revenue as a result of f2p), and 500k seems rather optimistic for how many people the cosmetics would draw back if provided for free. Furthermore, I think most players would expect the cosmetics to be connected to content somehow, and its way faster to push out cosmetics than it is to make content.

You keep saying vast majority, I don't think it means what you think it means. And they must be doing a terrible job gating this vast majority of content, because I haven't purchased anything on the CM, yet every patch there are new things I do.

You keep saying vast majority, I don't think it means what you think it means. And they must be doing a terrible job gating this vast majority of content, because I haven't purchased anything on the CM, yet every patch there are new things I do.

And every large patch there is a horde of new stuff (content) that can't be directly obtained through gameplay. Whether you will admit that it is content or not is irrelevant. To me it's content, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Why does it need a Cartel Market to do that? The two most successful MMO's of all time did perfectly fine without one, and many of the others did and do so with no extra cost.

 

What do you think would happen if they had spent that money to do everything they did, and provided it included with subscription?

 

Sure, they would not have had any injection of CM revenue but luring back even 500k former players (1/3 to 1/4 of those who left) would equate to $7,500,000 of new revenue per month. That is equivalent to selling 350,000 Ewoks per month.

That's not on Bioware, that's on the player base. What percentage of it is immaterial if the game grows because of it. As a fan of the game, that's what matters. If you're not a fan, then not letting it go indicates that the game is not the problem.

Why does it need a Cartel Market to do that? The two most successful MMO's of all time did perfectly fine without one, and many of the others did and do so with no extra cost.

 

What do you think would happen if they had spent that money to do everything they did, and provided it included with subscription?

 

Sure, they would not have had any injection of CM revenue but luring back even 500k former players (1/3 to 1/4 of those who left) would equate to $7,500,000 of new revenue per month. That is equivalent to selling 350,000 Ewoks per month.

*DING, DING, DING*

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

*DING, DING, DING*

 

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

Holy snappin' arsels Batman ... look at the time. Tonight is HM night and I'm tanking for team 2. Enjoy the forum life!

And to the rest of the community, i am really disappointed in you. I was just proposing a way which might help the game and yet so many of you jump on the offensive. I really held the SWTOR community in high regard until now. Guess that would also explain why the devs rarely reply on the forums. When so many of you lack the ability to have a mature conversation calmly, why would the devs bother? I think i understand now why they made representatives.

Like I care whether you are disappointed or not. If anyone is devoid of having a mature discussion it is in fact you. I say this because, you completely fail to understand that nothing in the CM makes any shred of difference to a players abilities which means that if this bothers you that much then simply ignore it.

Oh and for the record making a sub only server would ensure they LOSE revenue not gain it as people despite what you say actually enjoy the market as like to spend money so quit telling people what they should do.

I'm not sure if it would work or not, but the one case that I am aware of where it was done...with Everquest II next, it was removed after dismal results.

City of Heroes also had a sub-only server. Of course, that game is dead....

City of Heroes also had a sub-only server. Of course, that game is dead....

And every large patch there is a horde of new stuff (content) that can't be directly obtained through gameplay. Whether you will admit that it is content or not is irrelevant. To me it's content, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.

No that's too easy. Aside from your exaggerations, you want something that is no longer the way things are. Sure, you see all that cosmetic stuff as content, but the reality is that all content needs to be paid for.

If you went to a server that was sub only and no CM, then you wouldn't get any of the CM stuff because if you remember before f2p the amount of skins available was rather limited and with the CM the diversity of looks has exploded.

If you want a sub only server without CM, that means you also have to accept that you don't get any from that stuff because you're not paying for it. It's additional content if you want, but it is paid for separately and is not part of your sub payment. Are you willing to accept that?

And in the end I don't think that many people actually would play on that server. I'd think it'd be pretty quiet around there.

And at least all this content as you call it is available in game via the GTN and guildies and none of it is game breaking, giving people unfair advantages. All MMOs these days have cash shops in some form or another. Why? Because they work really well and I think that it's clear the CM is doing very well indeed.

So let me ask you the question. They would have to set up a separate server fro people like yourself and there may not be that many of you. So when you take the costs of all this and probably the limited success of it, how much are you willing to pay per month for a server like that?

City of Heroes also had a sub-only server. Of course, that game is dead....

I still have City of Heroes installed on my computer is that BAD

Mind the recent Star Trek patch deleted the entire game off my computer haha just left a dead .lnk file

What does the rest of the community feel about this? Please comment below and also vote on the poll i created to see it statistically http://flisti.com/58204

Here's an amazing concept: If you don't like the shop, then don't go in the store. Communities have places were some might want to go. Deal with it.

If you're so turned off by a retail venture in a commercial game, then you have bigger problems to worry about I think.

I still have City of Heroes installed on my computer is that BAD

 

Mind the recent Star Trek patch deleted the entire game off my computer haha just left a dead .lnk file

Well if anybody ever makes an emulation of it, like they did with SWG, then you can play it, otherwise yeah it's just taking up space.

So let me ask you the question. They would have to set up a separate server fro people like yourself and there may not be that many of you. So when you take the costs of all this and probably the limited success of it, how much are you willing to pay per month for a server like that?

No, not for extra money but at the cost of restrictions on their account.

Here's how it'd work:

- You could opt out of ever having to deal with the Cartel Market.

- You would be restricted to playing on a single non-market server. All your characters would be transferred to it for free. Any un-bound marketplace items would not be transferred so as to remove them from the economy.

- It would be a permanent decision and you would never be able to create characters on any other server.

- All your Cartel Coins will be taken away and you will neither receive monthly grants nor be able to purchase them.

- Likewise, it would not be possible to play on this server if you had not opted out of the marketplace. It is restricted specifically for those who do not wish to be part of the cartel market experience.

- You cannot play without a subscription.

- All non-marketplace related game updates are still applied just as they would be to the rest of the game.

- In order to keep things simple for game updates, all game interactions that may require Cartel Purchases (appearance designer, Cartel vendors, etc.) WILL still be present on this server, but players will be unable to make use of them because they do not have access to Cartel Coins.

- The collection system would still exist but account unlocks will not be possible due to the lack of coins. Existing unlocks would remain since those items are only usable by the character who claimed them.

- Since expansions are no longer being subsidized by Cartel purchases on this server, anyone who has chosen this option will be required to purchase them separately, most likely for $20.

So to summarize:

- Make a permanent choice to only play on a non-Market server. Once you have chosen this path, there's no going back. Ever.

- The game exists as it does now and the server will continue receiving normal updates except 1) you have 0 coins, 2) will never get more coins, 3) the marketplace isn't available to you, and 4) a subscription is required to play.

- You would have to pay cash for expansions.

So that would pretty much return the game to the pre-F2P experience with the least amount of development effort for those that want it, but I doubt you'd be able to find enough people willing to play under those conditions to make a single server worthwhile.

Wow.. This is a really bad idea.. All the great stuff, mounts, weapons, pets, toys, armor, and countless other things all come from the Cartel Market.. If they took out the Cartel Market and made subscription servers, about 70% of the game content would disappear.. There is no in game way to collect all this stuff..

The F2P people would have all the goodies and we would have......... Well.......... Pretty much nothing..

[...] I really held the SWTOR community in high regard until now. [...]

That was your first mistake.

/Me smiles cynically....

You're not from around here, are you?

The modern MMO player-base, we're getting exactly what we deserve, and deserve exactly what we get. No more, and no less.

Please comment below and also vote on the poll i created to see it statistically

I don't like the cash shop, I think crap on the cartel market siphons from real content in the game and I don't buy anything from the cartel market. But I recognize that this game would probably be dead or closed if it wasn't for the cash shop because the game was released without features mmos have had since 1999.

Theres no reason to have separate servers, the cartel fluff has no effect on me. if I want something I buy it off the gtn and let the people with more money than brains pay for my space expansion by spending hundreds of real dollars to get an item I buy for a couple of million credits.

If Bioware is worried about the money which it may lose from the current subs who still buy stuff from Cartel shop, then they can charge for the expansions on the sub server instead of it giving it free. I know i would be more than happy to spend on an expansion instead of the Cartel market.

Tiny problem here... what they would get for the expansion (or rather did get, because those of us who already played back then had to buy it when it came out), isn't even a thenth of what some subs spend on a regular basis on cartel shop.