Hi all,

I am a Lvl 50 Guardian (full defense) in the process of gearing up. At this time I am roughly half Tionese, half Columi. My question is on stats for mods in the shells. Right now, nearly all my mods are heavy in shield and defense, with some in absorb. I have very little in power. I have read some of the online tanking guides which suggest to augment with power if possible, but was wondering if it is wise to swap defense for power or shield for power. I am slowly picking up BH commendations but don't have any BH gear yet.

I am away from my SWTOR computer so don't have accurate numbers for defense %, shield %, and absorb %.

Any suggestions would be very helpful, thanks.

Augment for Defence and shield - never power or endurance.

In BH gear you wantto aim for 28% defence 50% shield 50% absorb

Full columi around 25% defence 40% shield 40% absorb

also you need zero accuracy, surge, crit, power, alacrity. dont get any of these at all - columi has some funny mods with wierd arse stats you want to slowly replace these with tanks stats. you threat comes from your strength and your skill rotation.

If you have no precision at all, you risk for your guardian slash und hilt strike to miss the target, meaning you don't get the extra aggro that's only granted if those abilities actually HIT your opponent. Esp. T5 gear offers enough secondary stat possibilities for it to make sense and it is the key for e.g. easily holding aggro at TFB's final boss tentacle phase which tends to be nightmarish for a guardian (even if it's not yet available in nightmare mode ;-)

It'll be different though come 2.0., when precision will become ridiculously "expensive"...

If you have no precision at all, you risk for your guardian slash und hilt strike to miss the target, meaning you don't get the extra aggro that's only granted if those abilities actually HIT your opponent.

You're making a rather blatant logical assumption that the increase to your threat by minimizing your misses is actually going to have a greater impact on your threat generation capabilities than simply getting your rotation down properly and/or taunt fluffing.

The *only* time that you're actually going to risk losing threat by missing with Guardian Slash (Hilt Strike is a Force attack and, as such, can't miss on live; in 2.0, it's changing a bit, but Guardian threat is also being buffed crazy hard, so it's not really a big deal) is in the opening volley of a fight and, honestly, if you know how to work your taunts (re: if someone pulls threat, use Taunt immediately), it's not really a big deal. If anything, if you want to drops your mitigation to increase your threat generation (since Accuracy competes with Shield rating), you're better off going for pretty much anything *except* for Accuracy (Power and Crit *both* provide more bang-for-you-buck than Accuracy does), though whether you shouldn't just learn to play your class better and stick with the higher mitigation while accomplishing the same thing should also be asked.

Accuracy is a fundamentally worthless stat for tanks. It's contributions are so low that it, with the exception of Alacrity (since it does nothing now, but is actually going to do *more* than Accuracy come 2.0), pretty much any other stat is going to be more useful for a tank. Accuracy is *only* useful when you've got a crapton of Power, Crit, and Surge already, such that the percentage increase to your total damage (going from a 90% hit chance to a 100% hit chance is an 11% increase) is actually more than the linear gains provided by Power or the substantially higher percentage yields provided by Crit and Surge. Tank damage is so low at the baseline and good ones have next to no itemization devoted to Power, Crit, or Surge (at most, you should have some incidental Power on your augs and potentially relics) such that the 11% increase provided by stacking a load of Accuracy are less than what you'd get out of just stacking a crapton of Power.

In short, if you're stacking *any* Accuracy, you are, quite literally, choosing to reduce your mitigation just to increase your damage/threat in the least efficient manner possible. It's not just a bad idea; it's a *really* bad idea.

you risk for your guardian slash und hilt strike to miss the target

No!

You might risk missing with Guardian Slash, but you definitely do not risk missing Hilt Strike ever.

Hilt Strike is by ability type defined as a force ability and force attacks currently (while we are still in 1.7) do not miss at all, even if you have 0 accuracy rating.

Force attacks have 100% base accuracy and accuracy over 100% reduces the target's resist chance, but since PvE mobs (including operation bosses) do not have any resistance at all, the force accuracy higher than 100% does literally nothing what so ever.

Bosses have only defense against melee/ranged attacks but nothing against force/tech attacks.

Of course this will change in 2.0 when PvE mobs will get some resistance against force attacks, then accuracy will benefit force attacks too and they can get resisted (which is the same as not hitting at all) if you don't have enough accuracy. Even then though, accuracy will most likely be considered at most a very low priority for most tanks.

No!

 

You might risk missing with Guardian Slash, but you definitely do not risk missing Hilt Strike ever.

 

Hilt Strike is by ability type defined as a force ability and force attacks currently (while we are still in 1.7) do not miss at all, even if you have 0 accuracy rating.

 

Force attacks have 100% base accuracy and accuracy over 100% reduces the target's resist chance, but since PvE mobs (including operation bosses) do not have any resistance at all, the force accuracy higher than 100% does literally nothing what so ever.

 

Bosses have only defense against melee/ranged attacks but nothing against force/tech attacks.

 

Of course this will change in 2.0 when PvE mobs will get some resistance against force attacks, then accuracy will benefit force attacks too and they can get resisted (which is the same as not hitting at all) if you don't have enough accuracy. Even then though, accuracy will most likely be considered at most a very low priority for most tanks.

Yep my mistake. But Riposte is not force and it's crucial to damage mitigation. Anyway I just don't like my attacks not hitting the target, because I use them for specific purposes. And guardians have several non-force attacks.

Yep my mistake. But Riposte is not force and it's crucial to damage mitigation.

Riposte can't miss, be dodged, or be parried. It, quite literally, will always hit. It explicitly states that as part of its tooltip.

Damn, now I totally look the fool ^^

You're obviously right. As a matter of fact I tried both, I didn't have any accuracy on my gear at first and after I pushed it to 100% I had less trouble holding aggro, especially in HC and NM Ops. I'm not a big theory crafter so this is subjective impression. As far as I can see, accuracy would then work on Guardian Slash, Master Strike, Strike, Slash, Cyclone Slash, Saber Throw?

Guardian Slash: Important, extra aggro, best if never missed

Master Strike: Important, high damage ability = good aggro

Strike: I use it more than I'd actually like to for biulding focus. Feel that such a frquently used attack should hit.

Slash: Forget about it, only used as focus dump which rarely happens to me

Cyclone Slash: Not sure if this is actually melee, but it's rarely used in boss fights anyway. Good aggro pusher (especially if skilled) in trash groups or Flashpoints, which is not the point. Exception: Kephess NM Transdochans phase

Saber Throw: Should never miss, as it's used at the beginning of a fight or in transition phases, when building aggro fast is essential...

Mind you, this is just trying to find an explanation why I feel my tanking has improved since I pushed accuracy to 100%...

Saber Reflect in 2.0 will be a Force Attack, right?

Mind you, this is just trying to find an explanation why I feel my tanking has improved since I pushed accuracy to 100%...

Increasing your Accuracy *is* going to improve your threat generation. It will also make your threat generation more reliable. Ensuring that you always hit kind of has a habit of doing that. The issue is that Accuracy is pretty much the *least* efficient way of actually improving your threat and it comes directly out of your mitigation. Like I said before, stacking Accuracy is just reducing your mitigation to increase your threat in the least efficient manner possible.

Honestly, from what you're saying, unless you were balanced on the razor's edge of threat, it sounds like you're just suffering from a case of confirmation bias. You think you're tanking better while playing the exact same way so you're looking for something different to support it. Honestly, it's more likely that, in tweaking your gear, you learned more about the game and simply became a better player in the process. Stuff like learning your rotation and managing your resources are going to have a *way* bigger real impact on your threat generation than increasing your Accuracy (seriously, the increase in damage, and therefore threat, is comparatively miniscule; it's something like a 5% increase for *Guardians* out of getting 10% more Accuracy, which is a crapton of Accuracy), but, as a player, you're not likely to notice *those* changes since they're so minute so you end up deciding that it was all in your tweaking of your stats.

Accuracy is not, nor has it *ever* been, a useful stat for tanks to stack in TOR. Anyone that tells you otherwise seriously has no clue what they're talking about.

Good point, will have to think about that one. The idea to actually have improved my skill is appealing, naturally. Hell, it might even make me forget my desire of being an annoying know-it-all about this accuracy thing ;-)

Anyway, how much accuracy are you actually running with then? Really none at all?

Anyway, how much accuracy are you actually running with then? Really none at all?

Absolutely none. As I said, it's a completely worthless tank stat. The only accuracy I've got is the 1% you get automatically from having a melee or ranged tank companion at maximum affection (I can't remember which it is).

Good point, will have to think about that one. The idea to actually have improved my skill is appealing, naturally. Hell, it might even make me forget my desire of being an annoying know-it-all about this accuracy thing ;-)

 

Anyway, how much accuracy are you actually running with then? Really none at all?

Well for a long time i ran with 1x 57 accuracy mod on my saber. With 3% points accuracy from skills & 1% from companion this gives a supprising amount 97% (hybrid spec) - to get from thier to 100% takes i think 3 more mods.

I have for a long time run with no accuracy at all. I never miss. Well I might sometimes but I never notice missing. Kits correct 100% accuracy is complete crap - you should have zero. Stack mitigation only.

If you are bad at holding threat at the beginning of fights the best option is to use an adrenal that is set to proc when you leap into the fight at the beginning the exta power is a big deal in terms of threat. Or even better (thou not worth it because of the mitigation compromise) use the DG relic of boundless ages set to proc when you leap - that 350 power makes threat at the start easy..... But those solutions are far worse than using armour adrenals when necessary and EWH defence relics and learning to use your skills better.

If you are losing agro you need to learn to play - it is possible to never lose agro playing with the best and craziest DPS players in the game that go hard out form the start - with zero agro generating mods - on your guardian.

I cleared Explosive Conflict HC with that setup so I do know a little bit how to play ;-)

It's just that a lot of guardian tanks complain about losing aggro on the tentacles in TFB HM, which has never been a problem for me and I thought my attacks never missing might be a point here. Defense and mitigation seem ok on my tank, I never had a healer complaining. Mind you my accuracy mainly comes from augments, on modifications and enhancements I go mitigation all the way. The good thing about accuracy augments is that they are the only ones carrying endurance (instead of power like all defense augments) which is nice for my health pool. So my build is basically more life, a little less power, never miss my hits and probably still a little less mitigation (mind you I'm full defense, I think you need more mitigation in your gear if you're hybrid). It's probably not a typical tank setup but I do just fine with it...

Of course it's a lot about rotation, I talked to guardians who are not even aware of hilt strike for extra aggro or the fact that force stasis generates a little extra aggro and don't have it in their rotation. Or use their taunt before all their extra aggro skills are executed instead of after. Or are not aware that you can use your aoe taunt as a precaution for not losing aggro e.g. on toth & zorn since you will only need your single taunt for the boss swap etc. etc.

It's just that a lot of guardian tanks complain about losing aggro on the tentacles in TFB HM, which has never been a problem for me and I thought my attacks never missing might be a point here. Defense and mitigation seem ok on my tank, I never had a healer complaining. Mind you my accuracy mainly comes from augments, on modifications and enhancements I go mitigation all the way. The good thing about accuracy augments is that they are the only ones carrying endurance (instead of power like all defense augments) which is nice for my health pool. So my build is basically more life, a little less power, never miss my hits and probably still a little less mitigation (mind you I'm full defense, I think you need more mitigation in your gear if you're hybrid). It's probably not a typical tank setup but I do just fine with it...

Augments are the *absolute worst* place to pick up accuracy.

First off, Endurance is actually a terrible tank stat in actual application. Endurance doesn't decrease the amount of damage you take and, honestly, if you've got over 25k for 8m or 27k for 16m, you've got more hp than you really need. All Endurance ends up doing is provide bad healers with a minute psychological advantage over lower hp pools (re: it increases the amount of time they're allowed panic before a screw up happens). It's *only* useful for bad healers since a good healer won't panic just because the tank took a big hit and will be able to predict incoming damage so that a large hp pool isn't required in order to keep said tank alive in a high damage situation (since most bad healers wait until health is lost to heal it, which puts them 2-3 seconds behind when the damage arrives; a good healer will know when said healing is required and pre-cast to have the heal arrive shortly after the damage).

Secondly, you're arguing about taking Accuracy and having it be *better* than the Power that you would've gotten otherwise. Power is *way* more useful for a tank: it increases your threat more, and, for a Guardian, it actually increases your mitigation since the size of your Blade Barrier is dependent upon your Bonus Healing and Accuracy has no effect on it whatsoever.

By using Acc Augs instead of actual mitigation augs, you're both lowering your threat (12 Power actually adds more to your threat than 18 Accuracy) *and* reducing your mitigation (18 Defense is *way* more useful than 12 Endurance).

Like I said, there is no reason to use Accuracy as a tank. Pretty much anything else you could do will be more useful.

I cleared Explosive Conflict HC with that setup so I do know a little bit how to play ;-) .

yea sorry learn to play is such a bad thing to say. look the thing is that tanking is pritty easy at the mo and getting easier in 2.0. You can do all the content effectivly with sub-optimal gear. Actually tbh i think its not that tanking is easy i think tanks arnt great and its good they are grtting a buff - but healing is OP so tanks can be suboptimal by quite a bit and get away with it. A good mate of mine that i consider best sage heals in the game recons he could easily heal all the content in the game in rakata gear. But this does still leave the question what is optimal. and thats worth addressing so that you know what direction to go in with gear if your struggling.

In terms of hybrid (its an out of date argument since 2.0 removes hybrid). But any ways - hybrid provides more mitigation and more threat then full defence. So if you want to muck around with high threat gearing - going hybrid makes your baseline mitigation better.