Time matters. Beiing 2 months ahead of...

 

Alright, let's take a sit down here.

 

Are you for or against a criteria based matchmaking system, if that system included queue type as medium to high tier criteria (meaning it's one of the last things to be "discarded" when the system begins taking too long and starts dropping criteria) and/or has a group "rating" buff attached to groups, to recognize their higher probability of having key game-winning factors?

 

If for: Then we have an agreeable solution... and bickering over whether groups magically get advantages from grouping or if those "advantages" just have a just higher probability of appearing in a group is needless filler.

 

If against: Why?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Doomsdaycomes

I find it curious that there are some loud, stubborn anti-matchmaking posters here who no matter what compromise, additional idea, etc... still scream for the "Solo-only queue" and accuse anyone against it of wanting to PuGstomp and ruin people's fun.

 

If you think about it, the only player to really benefit from both the absence of team-oriented players -and- no equal skill matching are mid-to-high skilled PuGs that don't care about winning. Without a large amount of team-oriented players in the queue, they can merrily solo-cap, 1 vs 1, run the ball, and be an "all-star" more often.

 

Now I've been trying not to point fingers, but me thinks certain Pots are calling the Kettle black.

Edited July 23, 2013 by CommunityDroidEN

I find it curious that there are some loud, stubborn anti-matchmaking posters here who no matter what compromise, additional idea, etc... still scream for the "Solo-only queue" and accuse anyone against it of wanting to PuGstomp and ruin people's fun.

 

This is one thing I don't get as well. I mean ok, everyone is entitled to their own opinions...This is after all, a forum on the internet. But when people are so unwilling to budge on their own arguments or willing to accept any other ideas to help out their own situation it becomes pretty counterproductive. Its like creationists arguing against evolution.

Edited July 23, 2013 by CommunityDroidEN

Well it is random unless you have two 4 man groups synching up their queues but in that case which I rarely see splitting the queues wont help group composition at all.

 

And at this point (speaking of being on a PvP server) I don't think cross servers are necessary for regular warzones, you could make the argument for ranked but it appears on my server the ranked scene is doing just fine.

 

Though it appears that for now bioware has no drive to do cross servers and even if they did it would be a long, long ways off.

 

I'm glad you got a healthy PVP server going for you, I think a lot of us agree that only two servers are currently the best option to get some serious PVP going.

 

That being said, cross-server queue's will still help things. More so ranked than anywhere else, I can agree to that. Since you can look at before SnV came out, you saw the whole PTS PVP competition going on between servers, it was competitive, fun and provided exactly what a healthy server should have. Too bad now, you only have that on two servers.

 

New ranked teams are going to be created via regular warzones and once that group decides to take the dive into ranked they can improve from there. The thing is, this system doesn't welcome any new player or casual groups for that matter into regular warzones.

 

All I hear is excuses at this point, "Bioware doesn't have...", do you work there? No? Bioware said they weren't going to do quite a lot of things but when the player base pushed hard enough for it, it happened. If you need an example, you haven't been paying attention.

 

You already said you are gonna quit the game, that's fine, probably for different reasons than this thread. Money, is what can help change the direction a game goes. The people aren't happy, they quit and then they figure out the problem to bring em back. Basic business.

One of my favorite comments I've seen recently, put where it belongs:

 

Quite frankly any premade spending their time in regular queues strikes me as non competitive pvp, it seems they are just trying to get their commendations without much effort. Any real premade of hardcore gamers should be doing ranked non stop.

 

It got me thinking, all these premaders bragging about their "skill" - it's akin to going bowling and your team gets to use the bumpers and you keep bragging about your rim-shot "strikes" - it's just funny. It's like being stuck pitted against the special olympics with all their handicaps (meaning free advantages), and you still have to try not to laugh at them when they dance awkwardly in "celebration". LOLOLOLOL. Premades are the wanna-be geeks who insist on having those handicaps and then want to brag about them. NO WONDER THEY GAVE YOU ALL HUTTBALL HELMETS! Hahhhhh. It's just sad and funny at the same time; but all the same, I would enjoy a queue for the grown ups, and one for all those special premade special olympians to play bumper ball together in also.

One of my favorite comments I've seen recently, put where it belongs:

 

 

 

It got me thinking, all these premaders bragging about their "skill" - it's akin to going bowling and your team gets to use the bumpers and you keep bragging about your rim-shot "strikes" - it's just funny. It's like being stuck pitted against the special olympics with all their handicaps (meaning free advantages), and you still have to try not to laugh at them when they dance awkwardly in "celebration". LOLOLOLOL. Premades are the wanna-be geeks who insist on having those handicaps and then want to brag about them. NO WONDER THEY GAVE YOU ALL HUTTBALL HELMETS! Hahhhhh. It's just sad and funny at the same time; but all the same, I would enjoy a queue for the grown ups, and one for all those special premade special olympians to play bumper ball together in also.

 

 

No seriously. Someone explain to me how most people complain about 4 coordinated, objective-minded, geared, player who's tactics and implementation of those tactics are -so- effective, they completely demoralize entire enemy teams into quiting and yet these...

 

Are the no-skill players.

 

No seriously. Someone explain to me how most people complain about 4 coordinated, objective-minded, geared, player who's tactics and implementation of those tactics are -so- effective, they completely demoralize entire enemy teams into quiting and yet these...

 

Are the no-skill players.

 

hey, it takes a lot of effort to do 50k dmg while fighting in the middle of nowhere

Apparently all PUGs break CC because it requires telepathy not to. Or not. Watch as two people keep the enemy away while I cap the node. Then no one manages to respond so we lose it. Only to do the exact same thing later in the video and win. Yes, I backfilled into this and stayed btw. You don't have to watch until the end after the second time we capped, we won.

 

No seriously. Someone explain to me how most people complain about 4 coordinated, objective-minded, geared, player who's tactics and implementation of those tactics are -so- effective, they completely demoralize entire enemy teams into quiting and yet these...

 

Are the no-skill players.

 

How do you explain rose colored glasses to someone who's wearing them? Doomsday, you are so hopeless. Other than serving as a cog in a clique, both in the forum and in the game, I can't see how you get by.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Comfterbilly

oh, looks like some of this thread just disappeared.

 

 

and for those that missed it:

 

Nice list Kilora!

 

While the exact details of which features will make Game Update 2.4 are still being hardened I can definitely say that Cross-Server Queueing is not in the plan for it. We've taken a hard look at Cross Server Queuing in the past and accomplishing it is a *significant* challenge that would take a lot of time away from other things we are working on. Emphasis on significant. It's not forever off the table but it's not in the plan right now.

 

Even though it is too early to share specifics I can say that Game Update 2.4 as it is being worked on right now has features and changes that should cause a significant improvement of queue times for ranked Warzones in particular. Emphasis on significant!

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6398419

 

cross server is a no-go. its not even worth discussing.

Edited July 23, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

Apparently all PUGs break CC because it requires telepathy not to. Or not. Watch as two people keep the enemy away while I cap the node. Then no one manages to respond so we lose it. Only to do the exact same thing later in the video and win. Yes, I backfilled into this and stayed btw. You don't have to watch until the end after the second time we capped, we won.

 

Yesterday, I had two games where people, 2+, showed up in lvl 47 greens. Premades must be why we couldn't cap a node on AH....

Here we had a good back and forth going which led us to Darkwing Duck which was amazing and someone took that away from me. Back to the topic at hand I guess.

 

All I hear is excuses at this point, "Bioware doesn't have...", do you work there? No? Bioware said they weren't going to do quite a lot of things but when the player base pushed hard enough for it, it happened. If you need an example, you haven't been paying attention.

 

Bioware has stated that they have no intentions of releasing cross server anytime in the near future. Here is the most recent dev post I can find on cross server queues.

Nice list Kilora!

 

While the exact details of which features will make Game Update 2.4 are still being hardened I can definitely say that Cross-Server Queueing is not in the plan for it. We've taken a hard look at Cross Server Queuing in the past and accomplishing it is a *significant* challenge that would take a lot of time away from other things we are working on. Emphasis on significant. It's not forever off the table but it's not in the plan right now.

 

Even though it is too early to share specifics I can say that Game Update 2.4 as it is being worked on right now has features and changes that should cause a significant improvement of queue times for ranked Warzones in particular. Emphasis on significant!

 

 

A *significant* challenge would indicate that, as I stated earlier, if they have plans on doing it will be a long time off (think capitol guild ships).

 

One of my favorite comments I've seen recently, put where it belongs:

 

 

 

It got me thinking, all these premaders bragging about their "skill" - it's akin to going bowling and your team gets to use the bumpers and you keep bragging about your rim-shot "strikes" - it's just funny. It's like being stuck pitted against the special olympics with all their handicaps (meaning free advantages), and you still have to try not to laugh at them when they dance awkwardly in "celebration". LOLOLOLOL. Premades are the wanna-be geeks who insist on having those handicaps and then want to brag about them. NO WONDER THEY GAVE YOU ALL HUTTBALL HELMETS! Hahhhhh. It's just sad and funny at the same time; but all the same, I would enjoy a queue for the grown ups, and one for all those special premade special olympians to play bumper ball together in also.

 

A queue for 'grown ups' and a queue for 'special premade special Olympians'. Another gem of an analogy. People say that premades are harsh towards pugs yet you throw out jabs as often as you can it seems. I don't feel like a wannabe geek who insists on having a handicap.

 

What I want is plain and simple. A matchmaking system which pits players grouped or solo of equal skill level together.

How do you explain rose colored glasses to someone who's wearing them? Doomsday, you are so hopeless. Other than serving as a cog in a clique, both in the forum and in the game, I can't see how you get by.

 

Eh. So Mr. Comfty.

 

Explain to me how very early in this thread I was very "Casual PuG's are just lazy little cry babies,"

 

And I've gone to:

 

"Hey, it's not my way but I get it. Casual PuG's deserve to be recognized by the system and provided some considerations to make their game play more enjoyable. We could have skill-based matchmaking, perhaps with a queue-type criteria included. A group buff could also be used to show the "higher probability of advantages" so when a there are Pug's counter balancing a group on opposite teams, the PuG's are actually of a higher skill rating, while the group is of lower but expected to have composition, past experience, blah."

 

 

I do see someone with rose-colored glasses though, you should take them off your face.

 

 

Here we had a good back and forth going which led us to Darkwing Duck which was amazing and someone took that away from me. Back to the topic at hand I guess.

 

A moment of silence for that moment, for Darkwing Duck was amazing. Now back to zee topic.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Doomsdaycomes

comfter thinks that premades are equivalent to sexual assaulting young women. have fun arguing with that kind of logic. Edited July 23, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

comfter thinks that premades are equivalent to sexual assaulting young women. have fun arguing with that kind of logic.

 

Sexually assaulting young women, pedos praying on children and now special Olympics. Terrific analogies.

Again:

please stop attempting to draw parallels between grouping in an MMO to physically violent/socially unacceptable activities.

 

you guys get all in a huff when i call folks "window lickers"; yet ive been called a ra.pist, a bully, and who knows what else b/c massive cba to read every post in this thread.

The potentials of human behavior don't have an 'on/off' switch that's deactivated the minute a person logs into an MMO. You're making a false argument. People are capable of the same extremes of behavior inside a game that they're capable outside the game. In fact, these extremes are probably more outsized than they would be in real life the same way LOTS of behavior is amplified over the internet, minus the consequences of actually having to be accountable for our transgressions. Depending on the team, there are a lot of parallels. The nature of behavior doesn't change just because it occurs in a digital format. There is a lot of seedy and sh**y behavior going on on a regular basis, committed in the case of premades by people who are taking advantage of a broken queue; looking for pugs to roll because the watchers aren't watching and they get off on it; they say a lot of degrading **** over the general/say channels, as their goal is to ruin other peoples experience, because that's the behavior they are allowed to enjoy.

 

I feel there's no valid basis for disagreement with the above.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Comfterbilly

There is a lot of seedy and sh**y behavior going on on a regular basis, committed in the case of premades by people who are taking advantage of a broken queue; looking for pugs to roll because the watchers aren't watching and they get off on it; they say a lot of degrading **** over the general/say channels, as their goal is to ruin other peoples experience, because that's the behavior they are allowed to enjoy.

 

I feel there's no valid basis for disagreement with the above.

 

If it were broken as you and others have implied more than a few times then it would have warranted a response.

 

I have not logged into the game in a good two weeks but when I did I was PvPing and mostly solo as of late and I rarely witnessed that type of behavior. When I did it was usually some reg hero degrading his own team in the ops chat. When it was in general/say more often than not it was someone bantering someone they knew.

 

Does that type of thing happen? Yes. But not on the scale that you make it out to be in what I have experienced in warzones.

I feel there's no valid basis for disagreement with the above.

 

You have no idea of context.

 

Groups of 4 entering the 1-4 bracket are where they belong.

 

They have no intention of seeking x, y, z, they simply have no where else to be.

 

Like wise, they have no control over who they fight.

 

The one thing they should be able to expect is that they are fighting people old enough to play this game.

 

Adults who agreed to step into PvP.

 

Adults who can either defend themselves or retreat to safety in stressful situations.

 

That you attribute some kind of intentional malice in their better play than yours is a testament to your immaturity, not theirs.

You have no idea of context.

 

Groups of 4 entering the 1-4 bracket are where they belong.

 

They have no intention of seeking x, y, z, they simply have no where else to be.

 

Like wise, they have no control over who they fight.

 

The one thing they should be able to expect is that they are fighting people old enough to play this game.

 

Adults who agreed to step into PvP.

 

Adults who can either defend themselves or retreat to safety in stressful situations.

 

That you attribute some kind of intentional malice in their better play than yours is a testament to your immaturity, not theirs.

 

I would argue to the contrary, on all points.

 

Half of a Ranked Team doesn't belong in Regs.

 

You can't argue morals with anyone, but I'd be remiss not to point out that groups who are successful at "higher level PvP" should find themselves there more often instead of dominating the lesser competition. It's competitive spirit (which they obviously don't have), and it's reprehensible at best, condemnable at worst, to play "big fish, small pond". The problem is... they know all of this. YOU know all of this. They don't care, they're in it for strokage. You don't care, it's blatantly obvious.

 

Some of us DO care. We care about the casual player.. the ones who keep the lights on at Bioware. I don't think it's selfish for them to want a place to play and have fun.

 

I also don't think they deserve fewer rewards for it. While we're on this topic:

 

You've outlined several times (so has Cash) that if a solo only were implemented, it should provide fewer rewards because it's not "competitive". However, by the same token premades should receive fewer rewards because they are not playing in a competitive bracket.

 

I don't mind discussions. I do mind when you ignore half of the argument and focus on what amounts to half-sentences. Argue with me and my ideals as a whole, do not argue semantics. It severely detracts from what you could possibly bring to the discussion.

 

On a side note..

 

Comfterbilly is not wrong. There is no off switch concerning Behavioral Patterns. It is irrefutable that those patterns are exacerbated by the lack of consequence in a digital format.

so if there are only 4 members of my guild on atm, and we cannot run RWZ b/c we do not have the remaining 4 members online, we should log out of the game or find something else to do, rather than group and queue for regs?

 

you seem to believe that anyone that premades is simply in it to "stroke their ego". you couldnt be more wrong. the RWZ community is <5% of the total population. at best maybe 100-150 people per server, give or take. the overwhelming majority of premades are just people that want to play with friends/guildies.

 

 

and fyi, premades that are in regs and not RWZ *DO* receive fewer rewards.... RWZ comms = WZ comms x3

Edited July 23, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

so if there are only 4 members of my guild on atm, and we cannot run RWZ b/c we do not have the remaining 4 members online, we should log out of the game or find something else to do, rather than group and queue for regs?

 

you seem to believe that anyone that premades is simply in it to "stroke their ego". you couldnt be more wrong. the RWZ community is <5% of the total population. at best maybe 100-150 people per server, give or take. the overwhelming majority of premades are just people that want to play with friends/guildies.

 

 

and fyi, premades that are in regs and not RWZ *DO* receive fewer rewards.... RWZ comms = WZ comms x3

 

Then find another 4 man group to do ranked with.

 

Just wait for it, it will come.

I would argue to the contrary, on all points.

 

Half of a Ranked Team doesn't belong in Regs.

 

You can't argue morals with anyone, but I'd be remiss not to point out that groups who are successful at "higher level PvP" should find themselves there more often instead of dominating the lesser competition. It's competitive spirit (which they obviously don't have), and it's reprehensible at best, condemnable at worst, to play "big fish, small pond". The problem is... they know all of this. YOU know all of this. They don't care, they're in it for strokage. You don't care, it's blatantly obvious.

 

Some of us DO care. We care about the casual player.. the ones who keep the lights on at Bioware. I don't think it's selfish for them to want a place to play and have fun.

 

I also don't think they deserve fewer rewards for it. While we're on this topic:

 

You've outlined several times (so has Cash) that if a solo only were implemented, it should provide fewer rewards because it's not "competitive". However, by the same token premades should receive fewer rewards because they are not playing in a competitive bracket.

 

I don't mind discussions. I do mind when you ignore half of the argument and focus on what amounts to half-sentences. Argue with me and my ideals as a whole, do not argue semantics. It severely detracts from what you could possibly bring to the discussion.

 

On a side note..

 

Comfterbilly is not wrong. There is no off switch concerning Behavioral Patterns. It is irrefutable that those patterns are exacerbated by the lack of consequence in a digital format.

 

Using mechanics that are currently in game and sexually assaulting a human being are not equal.

 

Any more discussion on this topic will go down a road that no one wants to visit.

so if there are only 4 members of my guild on atm, and we cannot run RWZ b/c we do not have the remaining 4 members online, we should log out of the game or find something else to do, rather than group and queue for regs?

 

you seem to believe that anyone that premades is simply in it to "stroke their ego". you couldnt be more wrong. the RWZ community is <5% of the total population. at best maybe 100-150 people per server, give or take. the overwhelming majority of premades are just people that want to play with friends/guildies.

 

 

and fyi, premades that are in regs and not RWZ *DO* receive fewer rewards.... RWZ comms = WZ comms x3

 

I think.. you can't force anyone to do anything.

 

What I would find more acceptable is 2man groups (not que-synched), but again, can't argue morality with anyone.

 

You would be wrong if you said that RWZ on Pot5 are <5%. You should know better.

 

 

AAAAAAAND.

 

I don't care about the conversion rate. Premades in reg queues should receive reduced rewards (even further reduced from RWZ) if you are opposed to splitting them.

I would argue to the contrary, on all points.

 

Half of a Ranked Team doesn't belong in Regs.

 

You've outlined several times (so has Cash) that if a solo only were implemented, it should provide fewer rewards because it's not "competitive". However, by the same token premades should receive fewer rewards because they are not playing in a competitive bracket.

 

Where is "Half of a Ranked Team" suppose to go when they don't have their other half?

 

I've also agreed as yet -another- compromise for the casual PuG, that rewards for Group vs. PuG could get a negative adjustment. I think that's been the point of the last few pages. Over and over there have been any number of changes proposed, compromises offered, etc... and a select few of the "Solo-bracket" refuse to even consider anyone else's side/happiness/fun/whatever. Worse they insult, lie, deceive, and out right "damn" things that use to be *********** virtues (like investment, self-improvement, hard work, dedication, team-work, etc...). I'm sorry, but if this is the general direction of the MMO crowd (waiting for data on that) then **** this.

 

I refuse to get into another conversation of what makes a Bully and a Victim. I've seen victims, I've been with them and I've been one. Even the worst day on the losing side (and yes, I've been a "PuG" vs. Premade) of a lopsided match is nothing compared to the pain, suffer, and long term effects of abuse. If someone thinks so, they need to grow a *********** tougher skin.

 

Or do what they always tell "Non-Casuals" ... realize it's a *********** game.

Using mechanics that are currently in game and sexually assaulting a human being are not equal.

 

Any more discussion on this topic will go down a road that no one wants to visit.

 

At what point did I say ANY of that?

 

I said.. as an accepted fact of psychology... Behavioral Patterns do not have a toggle switch.

 

Sexual assault is NOT a behavioral pattern. It is a result of those patterns, just as alcoholism isn't a personality defect, but rather an indicator of an addictive personality.

 

Please.. educate yourself before you make assumptions on my intentions.