You know that there are a lot more people that PvE than PvP, so any nerf will have effect on them.

The offered fix to smash is to make some kind of change (shockwave increased damage, auto crit, armor penetration) that will tone down that ability, but find a way to give them more sustained damage. Which would actually be a buff in PVE as it isn't all about bursting or AOE abilities. In fact, sustained single target damage will be far more important in any boss encounter. The argument against is that if you take that burst away, they will be the equivilent of merc or sorc DPS that are not wanted for high end PVP because they can do a lot of damage without actually killing anything.

If you were referring to the sorc bubble change, I don't know anyone who has ever specced into it that wasn't doing it for PVP specifically.

Way to bring a completely unrelated topic to the table. On a side note, you need to regear then, because I have far less expertise on my sorc since I don't use expertise crystals and have the 27 resolve armoring in belt and bracers and I see 5-6k crits from smash. I love the 2k max abilities they have to use after that since they have no crit and I heal back to full health before they smash again. It is a terrible spec for killing healers unless they have 2 or 3 coordinated smashes, which are going to kill you even if smash is doing 3k. I don't understand your point.

 

I do appreciate how you know it's OP and agree with that being ok on the basis of something else being OP. Great balance.

Ok i must have the wrong full war hero set that allows this to happen. U obviously havent played the people ive been playing because u dont get to heal while they control u the entire time.

Ok i must have the wrong full war hero set that allows this to happen. U obviously havent played the people ive been playing because u dont get to heal while they control u the entire time.

I've run in ranked, it hurts. It hurt before 1.4. How does that justify allowing that person who is hitting you have a bubble stun on them again?

BTW, I have no problems running warzones in full corruption spec when I don't want to have to respec between raids. In fact, I do far more healing that way. You are arguing to keep an ability that everyone agrees is helpful to the caster, but is OP when applied to teammates. Whether or not your teammates have the bubble has no bearing on how hard you get smashed or how that will impact your gameplay. Therefore, your argument that smash is just cause for the bubble stun is ridiculous.

Here is sorc not killed by Rage jugg 101 for you:

1) Cleanse Force Crush (stops shockwave stacks from building)

2) Break Force Choke and interrupt (stops shockwave stacks from building) or Pop bubble manually while in force choke to stop it.

3) Use KB during Ravage to avoid damage (roots if hybrid)

4) Use stun during Saber ward

5) Force Slow and Force Speed away if you are outmatched on cooldowns or Whirlwind as a last resort

You just cut down their ability to do 100% more damage when using smash to once every 40 seconds when enrage is available to build the stacks.

You know that there are a lot more people that PvE than PvP, so any nerf will have effect on them.

Kinda like the 1.4 PvE Focus/Rage buff that has had such a positive impact on PvP?

You guys can eat a PvP nerf and choke on it.

I've run in ranked, it hurts. It hurt before 1.4. How does that justify allowing that person who is hitting you have a bubble stun on them again?

Not sure if it was you who said that you could heal through the incoming smash damage. A heal speced sage/sorc might be able to do it but a pure or hybrid dps wont. They probably don't have the same alacrity, the channeling is longer, espcially with the pushback, and the heal in itself is lower. Add to this that a dps is not supposed to just stand there and heal, they're supposed to deal damage. By the time they've managed to get their HP up a little the CD on smash is gone again, rinse and repeat.

So yeah, it's not unreasonable to point at other broken things. It's definitely not unreasonable to demand that BW, once and for all, lets us now what it is that justifies mercs and sorcs current positions in PvP.

And a well played warriors/knights had sustained dps even before the smash buff.

The smash spec counter argument is stupid because you can put the bubble stun on an op rage/focus spec themselves and have anyone that jumps onto them be stunned for a nice 7k smash...

Exactly. Two wrongs don't make a right.... and two OP definitely don't translate into balance. Instead, the two OPs are often seen in use together, for super-ridiculous OP.

By the way, anyone else notice that Bioware actually necro'ed a dead thread to pass on the update? That tells me they really are looking at this, and (hopefully) a change is coming soon.

Thanks for posting your thoughts about the stun bubble and its Resolve value. We do plan on making some changes to the bubble in the future, but we're still looking at some different options for addressing concerns about it. We'll continue taking your feedback into account and will let you know more when we can.

As someone who plays a hybrid seer/tele healing sage, I hope you also take into account without the sun bubble on our selves and on our team mates, melee are basically free to do as they wish. the stun bubble is a form of crowd control that neds to remain. There is to much focus on melee in this game. They have to many tools and do way to much damage compared to other classes. I resubbed to this game BECAUSE of the changes/buffs to sorcs/sages. If you remove them or any way make us as squishy and unwanted as we were before the buffs you will lose another player again. 1.2 ruined my sage healer for pvp, please do not do it again. All that needs to occur is the bubble should not be able to be removed at will, only via damage taken. that is the only change that should happen. You hear all these meleers complaining at this point because they now do not ultimate free reign, keep it that way.

It doesnt but that's not really the point. The point is that they havent really bothered with fixing that either and while fixing it wouldnt render the warrior/knight classes useless in rateds "fixing" bubble would put sorcs and sages back in the same position they were before the bubble buff. There is something wrong with a class if its' only use is to make other already good classes perform better.

 

Not sure if it was you who said that you could heal through the incoming smash damage. A heal speced sage/sorc might be able to do it but a pure or hybrid dps wont. They probably don't have the same alacrity, the channeling is longer, espcially with the pushback, and the heal in itself is lower. Add to this that a dps is not supposed to just stand there and heal, they're supposed to deal damage. By the time they've managed to get their HP up a little the CD on smash is gone again, rinse and repeat.

 

So yeah, it's not unreasonable to point at other broken things. It's definitely not unreasonable to demand that BW, once and for all, lets us now what it is that justifies mercs and sorcs current positions in PvP.

 

And a well played warriors/knights had sustained dps even before the smash buff.

I agree that DPS is in a bad place for sorcs in PVP. I know some Madness specced sorcs that can do their thing, but would be more effective on other classes. I don't think this ability is as helpful to the DPS hybrids. The healer hybrids were already bubbling everything under the sun anyway, so this doesn't change their game. There is a dip in overall healing, but they have a few abilities that make DPS go up as well as pick up survivability through the bubble and root on KB (I ran this for awhile before 1.3 for PUG purposes). I would consider the corruption/lightning hybrid as the only hybrid sorc build I would bring to ranked unless the player was extremely talented or we already weren't running with an ideal group anyway. I don't think this bubble stun change truly aided DPS specs in any significant way; there is still a long way to go to fix the setup for the DPS trees (lightning is a lost cause based on the whole premise of the tree, so let's just fix Madness).

As someone who plays a hybrid seer/tele healing sage, I hope you also take into account without the sun bubble on our selves and on our team mates, melee are basically free to do as they wish. the stun bubble is a form of crowd control that neds to remain. There is to much focus on melee in this game. They have to many tools and do way to much damage compared to other classes. I resubbed to this game BECAUSE of the changes/buffs to sorcs/sages. If you remove them or any way make us as squishy and unwanted as we were before the buffs you will lose another player again. 1.2 ruined my sage healer for pvp, please do not do it again. All that needs to occur is the bubble should not be able to be removed at will, only via damage taken. that is the only change that should happen. You hear all these meleers complaining at this point because they now do not ultimate free reign, keep it that way.

No, what people are complaining about is that it doesnt fill resolve as much as it should. That is what needs to change.

No, what people are complaining about is that it doesnt fill resolve as much as it should. That is what needs to change blah blah.

No, people are complaining because sorcs and sages can now do something obviously relevant to the progress of a WZ. Why shouldn't this class be able to do that?

Seriously, often the only time I have a hope in hell of lasting more than 5 seconds in a fight (when not guarded by a tank friend) is when bubbles pop in my vicinity and give me time to get out.

It's like we were designed to be dependant on being guarded by a tank. That's a design flaw in my books; because it means I cant play my class solo, I have to have a tank; and the pvp queue doesn't guarantee me a tank. And even if the class was designed that way, then my stunbubble needs to be able to help my tank out too because he's taking some of my damage for me!

You're so incorrect about this resolve business and you're just obviously jumping on the resolve bandwagon, ignorantly.

And don't dare tell me that the stunbubble is worst than being chain-stunned and shanked by a freaking operative, you'd just be a liar.

How about we just nerf both smash and bubble? I think that would satisfy the people fighting here.

I think they'll have to because they're both incredibly broken and synergize with each other creating a really bad experience for anyone on the other side of these specs.

[Edit] Smash needs a huge nerf Bubble needs a small fix IMHO.

I think they'll have to because they're both incredibly broken and synergize with each other creating a really bad experience for anyone on the other side of these specs.

 

[Edit] Smash needs a huge nerf Bubble needs a small fix IMHO.

Nerf Smash and Bubble, than Nerf Force Shroud, Flame Burst, Guard, Taunt and Back stabs out of Stealth, . So when does it end.

Nerf Smash and Bubble, than Nerf Force Shroud, Flame Burst, Guard, Taunt and Back stabs out of Stealth, . So when does it end.

I would assume when the nerf QQ dies down, which i don't think will happen anytime soon

I agree that DPS is in a bad place for sorcs in PVP. I know some Madness specced sorcs that can do their thing, but would be more effective on other classes. I don't think this ability is as helpful to the DPS hybrids. The healer hybrids were already bubbling everything under the sun anyway, so this doesn't change their game. There is a dip in overall healing, but they have a few abilities that make DPS go up as well as pick up survivability through the bubble and root on KB (I ran this for awhile before 1.3 for PUG purposes). I would consider the corruption/lightning hybrid as the only hybrid sorc build I would bring to ranked unless the player was extremely talented or we already weren't running with an ideal group anyway. I don't think this bubble stun change truly aided DPS specs in any significant way; there is still a long way to go to fix the setup for the DPS trees (lightning is a lost cause based on the whole premise of the tree, so let's just fix Madness).

You are wrong. As a dps hybrid the bubble has made it much easier to kill maras in 1v1. As a dps sage I can also maintain bubble stuns on my teammates for a sacrifice of a 20-30% of my total dps output. Frankly very exhausting playing both a dps and a "healer" but at the same time very effective.

Thanks for posting your thoughts about the stun bubble and its Resolve value. We do plan on making some changes to the bubble in the future, but we're still looking at some different options for addressing concerns about it. We'll continue taking your feedback into account and will let you know more when we can.

Simple fix, the stun when the bubble breaks only trigger for the caster, and that's it.

Simple fix, the stun when the bubble breaks only trigger for the caster, and that's it.

If this were the case it should be significantly lower in the tree so that all specs can pick it up for some survivability and still be able to play 31 seer or 31 madness.

Otherwise, if it stays that high up in the tree it needs to be able to pop on everyone, just make it a mezz again so that it isn't 3 free seconds of DPS, but 3 seconds as an escape mechanism as it was intended.

Thanks for posting your thoughts about the stun bubble and its Resolve value. We do plan on making some changes to the bubble in the future, but we're still looking at some different options for addressing concerns about it. We'll continue taking your feedback into account and will let you know more when we can.

Please

a) keep the stun bubble on the place it is (talent and tree)

b) Make the bubble stun on damage break

c) That stun is for the caster, not the other players bubbled

Sage/Sorcs need the defensive tools, but if u give more defensive tools to other classes that are already balanced u are just ading MORE STUNS to the field and the game does not need more stuns, really wake up and understand please...THE GAME HAS ALREADY ENOUGH CC TOOLS DONT ADD MORE

Please

a) keep the stun bubble on the place it is (talent and tree)

b) Make the bubble stun on damage break

c) That stun is for the caster, not the other players bubbled

 

Sage/Sorcs need the defensive tools, but if u give more defensive tools to other classes that are already balanced u are just ading MORE STUNS to the field and the game does not need more stuns, really wake up and understand please...THE GAME HAS ALREADY ENOUGH CC TOOLS DONT ADD MORE

I like and respect you Groncho, but that is a nerf to sages. That is worse than what it was before the change in 1.4

May aswell nerf the other 2 underperforming classes(looking at you operative and merc)

Healing tree equals poor dps specs

Otherwise, if it stays that high up in the tree it needs to be able to pop on everyone, just make it a mezz again so that it isn't 3 free seconds of DPS, but 3 seconds as an escape mechanism as it was intended.

That brings you right back to pre-1.4 where its nothing but a free resolve builder which makes it completely worthless AGAIN. Madness with its instant whirlwind, root, slows, dots AND a bubble popping? Full heals with AoE heals, increased crit for heals, force sprint that breaks roots/can't be rooted during AND a bubble that pops? The talent is that high for a reason and should stay where it is, but I agree that it should stay a hard stun for the sorc/sage but not do anything for others that it's cast on. That seems absolutely fair if you want the extra survivability. It seems the buffs that were given were quickly forgotten but this one is obviously at the forefront because it's game-breaking for everybody. What you want is a dps buff which is understandable because that is indeed needed.

That brings you right back to pre-1.4 where its nothing but a free resolve builder which makes it completely worthless AGAIN. Madness with its instant whirlwind, root, slows, dots AND a bubble popping? Full heals with AoE heals, increased crit for heals, force sprint that breaks roots/can't be rooted during AND a bubble that pops? The talent is that high for a reason and should stay where it is, but I agree that it should stay a hard stun for the sorc/sage but not do anything for others that it's cast on. That seems absolutely fair if you want the extra survivability. It seems the buffs that were given were quickly forgotten but this one is obviously at the forefront because it's game-breaking for everybody. What you want is a dps buff which is understandable because that is indeed needed.

Actually I play as a healer, and it was immensely helpful even pre 1.4. I took it over the AoE heal because it was so powerful. It wasn't as good as it is now, but it was still the best way to stop burst against the person I'm healing. Just the mezz is enough to stop the DPS rotation and provides enough time to channel another tick of HT or get off a benevolence.

I'm only saying the talent should be lowered in the tree if it is changed to only affect the caster. It's a high tear talent right now, and it affects everybody. If it no longer affects everybody it's value is significantly diminished and should be a much lower tear talent.

I'm only saying the talent should be lowered in the tree if it is changed to only affect the caster. It's a high tear talent right now, and it affects everybody. If it no longer affects everybody it's value is significantly diminished and should be a much lower tear talent.

Just think of the advantage.. if they move the stun bubble from the lightning tree to say, the healer tree then no one will play lightning at all. As dps goes lightning is terrible, all sustained high casting times which is useless in pvp and the damage done is really low even in great gear; The only value is the stun bubble which might help your team.

Seriously.. balancing the sorcerer, if they remove the stuns from bubbles on other players or change the resolve limits (so everyone will always be immune) then Bioware needs to multiply the damage on dots times 10, and at least double the damage on force lightning.

Taking away the bubble stun would be a serious nerf akin to just deleting the class, or say, removing any reason for a sorcerer to be played in pvp at all.

Chisaineko

50 WH Sorcerer - heals, bubbles, and dps.

Said it before and i'll say it again... Fix the resolve system first. Then if sorcs still require adjusting, do it.

resolve is fine. You're just bad.