according to Wookiepedia, our characters are one of the following:

 

Sith Warrior - Emperor's Wrath

Sith Inquisitor - Darth Nox

Bounty Hunter - Grand Champion of the Great Hunt

Imperial Agent - Cipher Nine

 

Jedi Knight - Hero of Tython

Jedi Consular - Barsen'thor

Smuggler - Voidhound

Republic Trooper - Unidentified Havoc Squad commander

 

........

 

"Unidentified Havoc Squad commander"? wut?

 

why doesn't the Trooper have a fancy heroic title?

 

everyone in Havoc Squad has a nickname when you join up at the beginning, doesn't it make sense that you'd earn a nickname over the course of the story yourself?

Edited January 27, 2014 by JMadFour

"Unidentified Havoc Squad commander"? wut?

 

why doesn't the Trooper have a fancy heroic title?

 

everyone in Havoc Squad has a nickname when you join up at the beginning, doesn't it make sense that you'd earn a nickname over the course of the story yourself?

 

 

Geesh you Troopers are so needy! They already gave you the "Unidentified Havoc Squad commander" title!

You get rank titles before your character name. I think that's really it.

You're just another rank and file.

You get rank titles before your character name. I think that's really it.

 

understood.

 

however, like I said, all of the Havoc Squad members have Nicknames. makes sense that the Trooper would earn a recognizable Nickname as well, over the course of his story.

 

plus, the Imperial Agent presumably had a rank before becoming Cipher Nine. correct?

Edited January 27, 2014 by JMadFour

Um, although Sith Warriors become the Wrath in-story, they never receive a title to that effect.

Um, although Sith Warriors become the Wrath in-story, they never receive a title to that effect.

 

I'm talking about In-story. not game mechanics.

[quote name='JMadFour']I'm talking about In-story. not game mechanics.[/QUOTE] Then the Trooper is the Commander of Havoc Squad.

Actually when I was looking around on Wookieepedia the other day for something SWTOR related I noticed that the Trooper is now referred to as "Meteor" on there.

 

Having not played through the Trooper storyline I'm not really sure where that call-sign comes from though, or how appropriate it is.

Actually when I was looking around on Wookieepedia the other day for something SWTOR related I noticed that the Trooper is now referred to as "Meteor" on there.

 

Having not played through the Trooper storyline I'm not really sure where that call-sign comes from though, or how appropriate it is.

I think that's the call-sign the Trooper gets when she first signs up for the on-rails space battle missions (like how the Smuggler tries to call herself 'Crackerjack'). Dunno, though; I never bothered to play those through on my Troopers.

All my chars have "Living Legend" so that's epic wnough for me.

 

Nevermind, didn't understand your post.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Jandi

plus, the Imperial Agent presumably had a rank before becoming Cipher Nine. correct?

 

Cipher is a rank.

Um, although Sith Warriors become the Wrath in-story, they never receive a title to that effect.

 

That was changed in beta, after a lot of people complained.

Back then the SW got "Emperors Wrath" instead of "Darth"

(just like dark side JK got "General" instead of "Master")

Cipher is a rank.

 

It's a designation to indicate his or her role, not a rank. It's explained when you first go to Kaas.

I'm still being rather opposed to the Smuggler being called "Voidhound". That name only ever is mentioned in-game if you choose dark side at the end of the class story and comnandeer the pirate fleet that the Voidwolf had amassed and gives rise to your own criminal empire, which of course not happens if you go light side. Therefore, I don't think that "Voidhound" is representative enough for the class to function as a working cover name / title for the Smuggler class.

 

As for the Trooper, Havoc Squad often enough makes use of the term "Boss", so I might rather go with that instead of "Meteor". Plus, the commander of Delta Squad from Republic Commando was also called "Boss".

I'm still being rather opposed to the Smuggler being called "Voidhound". That name only ever is mentioned in-game if you choose dark side at the end of the class story and comnandeer the pirate fleet that the Voidwolf had amassed and gives rise to your own criminal empire, which of course not happens if you go light side. Therefore, I don't think that "Voidhound" is representative enough for the class to function as a working cover name / title for the Smuggler class.

 

A smuggler is a criminal, so that makes sense that they are dark side in that regard.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Sadishist

It's a designation to indicate his or her role, not a rank. It's explained when you first go to Kaas.

 

Cipher Nine is his/her designation, cipher agent is a rank though, it's like being a Double "O" Agent in James Bond, they only have twenty Cipher Agents at a time, and these are the elite Agents, so Cipher is a Rank. This is emphasised through several minor conversational options when you are at HQ. But they are a bit vague about it otherwise.

Edited January 27, 2014 by AlexDougherty

"Commander of Havoc Squad" is pretty heroic, and I'd think it would be at least on par with "Cipher Nine." The "unidentified" may seem to weaken it, but I assume that's to distinguish the player character from the previous havoc squad commanders whose names we know, while we don't know anything about the previous Cipher Nines. It is a bit inconsistent though, since we know of at least one other Barsen'thor. But that has more to do with wookiepedia, than swtor not giving the trooper a heroic positiion/title. If you don't like it, go change it!

Cipher Nine is his/her designation, cipher agent is a rank though, it's like being a Double "O" Agent in James Bond, they only have twenty Cipher Agents at a time, and these are the elite Agents, so Cipher is a Rank. This is emphasised through several minor conversational options when you are at HQ. But they are a bit vague about it otherwise.

 

That's not how it works, sorry. Being promoted doesn't mean you can issue orders, it means you get a tougher and/or more specialized job. The only person giving orders is Keeper. He assigs who does what and who reports to which Watcher. Being Cipher doesn't mean you give orders to a single person. Of course, refusing a "request" from a Cipher is rather foolish, but it's not an official order you can be court marshalled for if you don't obey. Just... you know, shot.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Jandi

That's not how it works, sorry. Being promoted doesn't mean you can issue orders, it means you get a tougher and/or more specialized job. The only person giving orders is Keeper. He assigs who does what and who reports to which Watcher. Being Cipher doesn't mean you give orders to a single person. Of course, refusing a "request" from a Cipher is rather foolish, but it's not an official order you can be court marshalled for if you don't obey. Just... you know, shot.

 

Don't try to look any more ridiculous as you already do. Cipher Agent is a rank.

Keeper: "I am assigning you a rank and designation that suits your new position."

 

And you do give orders to everyone under your command. You give orders to Kaliyo for example (and the rest of your team). Was that a bad joke, or you actually think that there is no chain of command in Imperial Intelligence and that the Keeper is the only person giving the orders to anyone?

Edited January 27, 2014 by Path-x

Don't try to look any more ridiculous as you already do. Cipher Agent is a rank.

Keeper: "I am assigning you a rank and designation that suits your new position."

 

And you do give orders to anyone under your command. You give orders to Kaliyo for example (and the rest of your team). Was that a bad joke, or you actually think that there is no chain of command in Imperial Intelligence and that the Keeper is the only person giving the orders?

 

They are assigned to you, yes but if they get reassigned to someone else, you no longer have any superiority over them. It's simply NOT how intelligence organizations work. You get assigned a team and you run the show but outside it, you have no say whatsoever what some other Fixer, for exmaple, does or doesn't do that isn't part of the team assigned to you.

 

If a Cipher met a Fixer that's working under another agent, that Fixer is under no obligation to take orders from you. This is done for multiude of reasons, primarily to give operatives as much freedom to do their jobs as possible.

 

The chain of command is short and simple according to the Codex in-game. Minister of Intelligence > Keepers > Operatives.

 

But I see some people don't understand how intelligence organizations that act with complete impunity work so I'm not going to argue this point any more and will simply say that go read a non-fiction book about KGB or the SS and how they operated within the organization.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Jandi

But I see some people don't understand how intelligence organizations that act with complete impunity work so I'm not going to argue this point any more and will simply say that go read a non-fiction book about KGB or the SS and how they operated within the organization.

While I agree with you about the nature of ranks, grades, and authority in intelligence services, I would like to point out that the SS wasn't really an intelligence service. More like a paramilitary state-sanctioned cult, almost a state within a state, revolving around Hitler on the one hand and Heinrich Himmler on the other. Although the internal-security and counterintelligence forces of Hitler's Germany were eventually reorganized under the SS's aegis (first as the SiPo and then as the RSHA), the Abwehr was the organization primarily responsible for intelligence gathering, especially military intelligence, until its disestablishment in 1944.

 

Owing to the Nazi state's bizarre structure of competing organizations and overlapping jurisdictions, there were of course other intelligence-gathering groups, such as FHO (Fremde Heere Ost, Eastern Front military intel) and even the SS Ahnenerbe ("Ancestral Heritage Society", responsible for intelligence gathering under the cover of archaeological and cultural expeditions). After 1944, when Canaris was killed and the Abwehr was broken up, Himmler managed to seize control of most intelligence assets and operations, and so they were transferred to the SS umbrella organization. I still wouldn't consider the SS an intelligence service itself at that point, because of all the other nonsense it was involved in (the Waffen-SS, a chunk of the German economy, the concentration and extermination camps, the various forms of state police, etc.).

 

Then again, maybe I'm just being picky. The basic thrust of what you have to say is true: "Cipher" is neither a rank nor a grade, but a designation indicative of the nature of the task they perform. Ciphers do not outrank Minders, Fixers, or Watchers by the merit of their positions within the Intelligence hierarchy; they simply have authority over or under each other based on the nature of the operations in which they are engaging. It's not like you can correlate "Cipher" with, say, a colonel in the KGB, and "Watcher" with a brigadier general.

Yes, well, I didn't mean to make literal comparisons to these organizations, just clandestine operating structures in general. Those which are separate from military outfits to be precise. Edited January 28, 2014 by Jandi

They are assigned to you, yes but if they get reassigned to someone else, you no longer have any superiority over them. It's simply NOT how intelligence organizations work. You get assigned a team and you run the show but outside it, you have no say whatsoever what some other Fixer, for exmaple, does or doesn't do that isn't part of the team assigned to you.

 

If a Cipher met a Fixer that's working under another agent, that Fixer is under no obligation to take orders from you. This is done for multiude of reasons, primarily to give operatives as much freedom to do their jobs as possible.

 

You got five people under you and that's enough to make you wrong. Of course you cannot simply give commands to some operative who is part of some other agent's chain of command. It works the same in the military.

 

And of course your team member can get reassigned but that has nothing to do with the argument here. The point is that Cipher is a rank and you have your own team that you command. These are the two things you were wrong about and that's the point here.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Path-x

They are assigned to you, yes but if they get reassigned to someone else, you no longer have any superiority over them. It's simply NOT how intelligence organizations work. You get assigned a team and you run the show but outside it, you have no say whatsoever what some other Fixer, for exmaple, does or doesn't do that isn't part of the team assigned to you.

 

If a Cipher met a Fixer that's working under another agent, that Fixer is under no obligation to take orders from you. This is done for multiude of reasons, primarily to give operatives as much freedom to do their jobs as possible.

 

The chain of command is short and simple according to the Codex in-game. Minister of Intelligence > Keepers > Operatives.

 

It's an Intelligence Agency, you only ever get authority over the people assigned to you, this is true for real Intelligence Agencies too, but they have ranks. The whole point is the higher the rank, the more likely to be given subordinate agents to order and use, but you wouldn't even know who was an Agent otherwise, and they certainly wouldn't know you were a Agent, let alone a superior. (if they did know you were an agent, then you are incompetent, likewise if you find out they are an agent, they are incompetent, if you both know, you're in serious trouble)

 

Also you missed watchers out of chain of command

Minister of Intelligence > Keeper > Watchers > Operatives.