Dear Everyonewhothinksbecauseit'sveteranyoucandowhateveryouwant,

 

As a TANK, my job is to keep you all alive. Whether you're DPS or a Healer, it doesn't matter. My job is to keep you from taking damage, and to keep everything attacking me. If you wanna run ahead and get yourself killed, or almost killed, that undermines MY performance as a TANK. So if I ask, not to run ahead of me, DO NOT vote to kick the TANK from the group, just oblige, it's not that hard to have a small amount of patience, is it? But, for those elitist players who say "it's veteran, anyone can go in first", y'all are the problem. For those of us who are still somewhat learning the ropes of tanking, say, on a Vanguard, let us LEARN by experience. Don't run ahead, get dead, or almost dead, to the point where the whole group is WAY AHEAD while I'm trying to recover with 30% hp remaining.

 

Let us do the job we volunteered for.

 

Sincerely,

All Tanks

Dear Everyonewhothinksbecauseit'sveteranyoucandowhateveryouwant,

 

As a TANK, my job is to keep you all alive. Whether you're DPS or a Healer, it doesn't matter. My job is to keep you from taking damage, and to keep everything attacking me. If you wanna run ahead and get yourself killed, or almost killed, that undermines MY performance as a TANK. So if I ask, not to run ahead of me, DO NOT vote to kick the TANK from the group, just oblige, it's not that hard to have a small amount of patience, is it? But, for those elitist players who say "it's veteran, anyone can go in first", y'all are the problem. For those of us who are still somewhat learning the ropes of tanking, say, on a Vanguard, let us LEARN by experience. Don't run ahead, get dead, or almost dead, to the point where the whole group is WAY AHEAD while I'm trying to recover with 30% hp remaining.

 

Let us do the job we volunteered for.

 

Sincerely,

All Tanks

Fair point, *but*...

 

If you are new at tanking, make sure to tell me, especially if you see my character Kylath(1), Gunnery Commando in full 248 with 11 augments at 236 and three at 240 (unlettered Lethal mods, plain versatile barrel/armoring, endurance-light enhancements, but still 131K Health). That way I can scale down my damage to give you a chance at keeping up, otherwise I *will* take aggro even if I don't want it (which I don't). I'll be glad to help you learn, even though I can't offer any advice on tanking, but you *must* tell me.

 

But I don't run ahead of the tank, of that you can be sure.

 

(1) You'll only find *my* Kylath on The Leviathan (FR server). Any Kylath you find on any other server is an imposter.

But I don't run ahead of the tank, of that you can be sure.

 

^ what Steve said

 

Within reason, that is. If you're a level 24 'tank', please don't try actually tanking when there's level 70s in the group. Or if a tank is obviously new to the flashpoint, then it makes no sense to have them trying to lead the group. You should run flashpoints as a follower (dps or heals) before trying to tank.

 

With level 70s in the group, I would say a tank should be a minimum of level 40 before they try tanking. You just can't keep aggro, or stay alive, at low-levels.

Dear Vet mode tanks,

 

Please spec DPS so we can finish the flashpoint faster. You can still learn the fight mechanics.

Seriously, just last night there was a level 20 "tank" that would just melt every time he taunted and pulled agro.

Me in my 234 commando tanked most of the fights and didn't drop below 75% health at anytime because I know how and when to use my DCDs.

 

I do follow if you are geared. But if I'm going to be taking most of the agro anyways, I am going to set the pace.

I agree with your assessment of the role of a tank - keep others from taking damage or dying.

 

That said, in vet (or even in MM), when it is trash being pulled, there is no better way to learn a classes potential and be prepared for more difficult content than pushing yourselves to the limit. This means optimizing the clearance by utilizing all dcds possible, so you can understand what type of damage they apply to, best uses for them, how powerful they are compared to other classes, etc. A merc, for example, can "tank" pretty damn well against multiple trash, and even MM bosses, for signficant window if needed.

 

There is useful information to be gained even when things dont go as planned or as expected. If you get into these groups, dont get upset, just try your best to adapt to the other players UNTIL something goes wrong, because then you will have hard evidence that the alternate approaches may not work best for that specific flashpoint.

If you rush in ahead of me, i take it as a nice time to take a short break. If the healer chooses to heal you, thats his decision, but as a tank, if you run ahead and pull something, I will be attempting to let you die.

 

If I serve no purpose in holding the boss, frankly I'll go stab stuff harder so it dies faster, because, being honest, I'm probably a better dps than most vigi guardians too.

Edited November 25, 2018 by KendraP

Seriously, just last night there was a level 20 "tank" that would just melt every time he taunted and pulled agro.

Me in my 234 commando tanked most of the fights and didn't drop below 75% health at anytime because I know how and when to use my DCDs.

 

Two points :

 

1. How is that level 20 ( !!! ) tank EVER going to learn if you don't let him or her ?

2. Of course he or she was melting - COMPARED to your level 70 !

3. It is often quite arrogant of level 70 players to assume Lowboies should NOT do things becuse a) they are better, b) have far bertter equipment, c) have so much more health because of them being level 70 !

 

To me, this is a very good example of badmouthing Lowbies so much that they will never LEARN proper tankend - AND get insulted when they TRY it at level 70 where everyone EXPECTS them to have FULLY MASTERED tanking at that level !

Two points :

 

1. How is that level 20 ( !!! ) tank EVER going to learn if you don't let him or her ?

They won't learn anything in a flashpoint at that level, unless they are going in with other comparable levels.

 

They can learn the way I learned. By doing pve with a comp. You stay on or below planet level and the heroics are challenging enough to learn your class abilities properly. You need to learn your high-threat abilites, dcd's, and procs. You can do all that in pve.

 

You can also learn your class by jumping to level 70 and reading guides, but I prefer the levelling method for getting a feel for abilites. Then you read the guides and find out what you've been doing wrong.

 

For Flashpoints - it is best to run them as a dps or heals before trying tanking. Tank should not be your first character.

 

Even an experienced tank cannot tank properly if they run a new level 20 alt through as a tank.

To me, this is a very good example of badmouthing Lowbies so much that they will never LEARN proper tankend - AND get insulted when they TRY it at level 70 where everyone EXPECTS them to have FULLY MASTERED tanking at that level !

For what it's worth, since we have a perennial lack of tanks in this game, whenever I see a newbie tank, I'm glad to let him or her set the pace and learn how to play. Nothing is gained from pushing people away from playing tanks.

 

That said, you have to remember that Bioware has purposefully restructured the low-to-mid level group PvE experience to be role agnostic. Low level tanks don't actually have access to any group content that requires their skill set.

 

So don't be too harsh on your fellow players who have adapted to these changes.

 

A new tank, starting out, would be best served by spending their lower levels tackling the most challenging solo content they have available to them, using a DPS companion (instead of a healer). This gets them used to holding the attention of enemies, and using their defensive abilities.

 

Any player that does that is going to learn significantly more about tanking than they would running a veteran mode flashpoint at level 20.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Khevar

Yup I main tanked years ago, but this is one of the reason's why I called it a day as a Tank main...

 

I now main a Vigi dps, and will always be patient and let the tank go first

We do have a shortage of tanks in-game and it's always good to see new ones rising through the ranks. Unfortunately some other players give them a hard time which sometimes causes them to stop tanking all together - then the same players wonder why they can't get tanks when they need them...

 

So if you're a dps or a healer, do yourself a favour and look after your tanks, what goes around comes around

 

~Ace

Two points :

 

1. How is that level 20 ( !!! ) tank EVER going to learn if you don't let him or her ?

2. Of course he or she was melting - COMPARED to your level 70 !

3. It is often quite arrogant of level 70 players to assume Lowboies should NOT do things becuse a) they are better, b) have far bertter equipment, c) have so much more health because of them being level 70 !

 

To me, this is a very good example of badmouthing Lowbies so much that they will never LEARN proper tankend - AND get insulted when they TRY it at level 70 where everyone EXPECTS them to have FULLY MASTERED tanking at that level !

 

1) There are several ways to learn to tank:

a) As stated above, do heroics that are at level or slightly over with a DPS comp.

b) Run the Flashpoints on Story mode

c) Run the FP as a DPS

d) Do all of the above and then run Master Mode FPs. Your role is needed there, and greatly appreciated.

e) Run warzones on your Tank. Learn who to guard, how to use your CDs, how to interrupt.

 

2) Yes they were melting. Nor could they hold agro. What exactly should I do to change these facts? There are many

FPs where the boss needs to be placed in a certain spot. How can this be effectively done if one person doesn't

continuously hold threat? Lowbie tank in question was taunting when his taunt came off CD regardless of where

the boss was, causing chaos. I only have one agro dump. Should I just auto attack and click koltos, causing the

the FP to take 4x longer than it should?

 

3) I'm not saying lowbies shouldn't do anything. I am saying that I will follow the tank until he proves to be ineffective.

I'm not going to gimp my run for your learning purposes. I am not going to purposely suck so a tank can learn to

play. If I am leveling I will gladly help. If you are a lowbie tank and want to run FPs, I'll hop on my lowbie healer,

and we can grab some lowbie DPS in chat and we can all queue together. But if I am running FPs on one of my

max level toons, I want it done as fast as possible for more loot crates.

 

 

This is the game that Bioware has created. They created FPs where no role is necessary. They made it to where gear is obtained by running FPs over and over again. They also made FPs you can run solo, to learn the basic mechanics. They gave you the option to respec to DPS to learn the fights. They gave us a mode where Tanks are necessary. They gave us companions that you can change roles. They gave us solo content that can be challenging and will test your tanking skills if you choose to not out level it.

 

My time is just as important as your time. If you show you are a capable tank then Ill happily follow you. Otherwise don't stand on the tracks when the train is coming through.

Tank is generally a role of leadership. Leaders take the initiative to learn the role by whatever means necessary, which may or may not include doing FPs with players who are much better geared or skilled than them. However, FPs where they need to compete with competent players would be a great way to hone tanking skills and learb when and where to agro because when they do get to harder content, the dps wont slow down, and will likely be even more difficult to protect them.

 

In addition, tanks need to be thick skinned, as they constantly take the bulk of responsibility and blame for success and/or failure, so going through difficulty in FPs with overzealous players can also teach patience.

If you as a player doesn't realize that your lvl 20 "tank" is inferior as a tank to a lvl 70 with heavy armor, all defensive cooldowns and far better gear in a regular flashpoint, I am not sure if tanking flashpoints is really the type of learning you need to focus on.

 

Dear Vet mode tanks,

 

Please spec DPS so we can finish the flashpoint faster. You can still learn the fight mechanics.

 

Best post of the thread, thank you.

Edited December 2, 2018 by RikuvonDrake

If you rush in ahead of me, i take it as a nice time to take a short break. If the healer chooses to heal you, thats his decision, but as a tank, if you run ahead and pull something, I will be attempting to let you die.

That's pathetic. In the end it is about what works. A Vet-FP is designed to work without trinity. Just because you are queued as tank it doesn't mean anything - you are not a "leader", you don't decide about the pace, you are just one of four players, same as me.

If I serve no purpose in holding the boss, frankly I'll go stab stuff harder so it dies faster, because, being honest, I'm probably a better dps than most vigi guardians too.

That's a fair statement and it's how it should work. 4 players do what's necessary (and ideally fastest) to finish the job. Hell, I do taunt off tanks when they start melting in trash fights if we have no healer. By law of trinity, that is definitely a no-go. If there is no trinity, it will keep us all alive.

Dear Everyonewhothinksbecauseit'sveteranyoucandowhateveryouwant,

 

As a TANK, my job is to keep you all alive. Whether you're DPS or a Healer, it doesn't matter. My job is to keep you from taking damage, and to keep everything attacking me. If you wanna run ahead and get yourself killed, or almost killed, that undermines MY performance as a TANK. So if I ask, not to run ahead of me, DO NOT vote to kick the TANK from the group, just oblige, it's not that hard to have a small amount of patience, is it? But, for those elitist players who say "it's veteran, anyone can go in first", y'all are the problem. For those of us who are still somewhat learning the ropes of tanking, say, on a Vanguard, let us LEARN by experience. Don't run ahead, get dead, or almost dead, to the point where the whole group is WAY AHEAD while I'm trying to recover with 30% hp remaining.

 

Let us do the job we volunteered for.

 

Sincerely,

All Tanks

 

Dear Spokesperson for all tanks everywhere,

 

Hi, I must have missed the survey you took of all tanks in the game. Must have also missed the election. My bad.

Now, to clarify a few things:

A tank's job is to hold aggro on (ideally) every mob that's being engaged by the group and to position said mob(s) or boss in such a way as to minimize the damage the group takes and allow the damage dealers to do their thing.

Doing either of those things in a VM flashpoint as a lowbie tank is unlikely to happen(especially if you have one or two 70s in the group). Bolster wasn't designed or implemented with tanks in mind, which means that if you do get a boss' or an entire pack's attention, you will melt.

I'm sorry you got kicked out of a group, that was a Richard move on those guys' part.

 

That being said, running Vets as tank will, at best, teach you very little about tanking and at worst give you some bad habits that you'll carry over into actual endgame content.

 

My advice to you, if you'll take it, is get to at least level 50 as fast as you can(hello 2xp event), read a guide on the spec, find a tank and ask them to explain some of this stuff to you(gearing, rotation, poisitioning-the general gist), filter out all flashpoints but the easier ones(Hammer, Athiss, Cademimu, etc), run those until you get some gear/experience/levels under your belt.

 

Good luck!

 

Sincerely,

A tank

Dear Spokesperson for all tanks everywhere,

 

Hi, I must have missed the survey you took of all tanks in the game. Must have also missed the election. My bad.

Now, to clarify a few things:

A tank's job is to hold aggro on (ideally) every mob that's being engaged by the group and to position said mob(s) or boss in such a way as to minimize the damage the group takes and allow the damage dealers to do their thing.

Doing either of those things in a VM flashpoint as a lowbie tank is unlikely to happen(especially if you have one or two 70s in the group). Bolster wasn't designed or implemented with tanks in mind, which means that if you do get a boss' or an entire pack's attention, you will melt.

I'm sorry you got kicked out of a group, that was a Richard move on those guys' part.

 

That being said, running Vets as tank will, at best, teach you very little about tanking and at worst give you some bad habits that you'll carry over into actual endgame content.

 

My advice to you, if you'll take it, is get to at least level 50 as fast as you can(hello 2xp event), read a guide on the spec, find a tank and ask them to explain some of this stuff to you(gearing, rotation, poisitioning-the general gist), filter out all flashpoints but the easier ones(Hammer, Athiss, Cademimu, etc), run those until you get some gear/experience/levels under your belt.

 

Good luck!

 

Sincerely,

A tank

You need to put more effort into reading the text you quoted. OP made no mention in that text of lowbie characters as tanks, nor of inexperienced players on highbie tank characters.

 

*I* introduced the question of inexperienced players (inexperienced at tanking, that is), with the advice that such players make sure they tell high-geared DPS players that they are new at tanking.

 

Others then introduced the question of low-level characters taking the role of tank (i.e. that against e.g. my Commando, they will not hold aggro, not ever).

 

But OP was talking from the position of an experienced player using a highbie tank character, and the problems that the "It's Veteran Mode, we can do it any way we like" attitude causes.

If you rush in ahead of me, i take it as a nice time to take a short break. If the healer chooses to heal you, thats his decision, but as a tank, if you run ahead and pull something, I will be attempting to let you die.

 

Some tanks take it too far... Remember running some easy vet FP with a 50-something tank and a total newbie DPS (very few achievements, almost totally clueless). Newbie aggroed some easily avoidable group of mobs and the tank decided to stand there and watch. Me and the other high-level DPS rushed to help and cleared the mobs without much trouble. Tank got so angry that we didn't die he decided to leave the group.

Some tanks take it too far... Remember running some easy vet FP with a 50-something tank and a total newbie DPS (very few achievements, almost totally clueless). Newbie aggroed some easily avoidable group of mobs and the tank decided to stand there and watch. Me and the other high-level DPS rushed to help and cleared the mobs without much trouble. Tank got so angry that we didn't die he decided to leave the group.

As a tank, im fine with dps pulling as long as they have dcds available. If they die, its on them, not on me, because they pulled without dcds (or didnt use em). Eventually they will stop pulling when their safety nets are not available.

My healer characters know how much they can take. My main in 248 can take pretty much anything on vet. so with that character i keep moving, and survive. My alt in 234 can't. He let someone else go in, if there are any tank. Though as healer i can't really control my aggro. Sure i can use some skills, that reduce threat, but if that's not enough, then all i can do is keep healing like hell, and use my emergency stuff to survive.

Dear Dps,

 

Feel free to pull! You're only making my job of gathering threat that much easier. I'll take all your threat, and then add it to my collection.

Dear Dps,

 

Feel free to pull! You're only making my job of gathering threat that much easier. I'll take all your threat, and then add it to my collection.

 

This guy gets it.

What's a tank? Oh those almost extinct endangered species? Yes those.

 

Well, I used to be the player in vet mode that ran ahead, get it done, plow through it. But with the low pop on gf for vet and almost nonexistent pop on MM gf I've grown to appreciate that role. Even in vet mode now, I treat them like royalty. I no longer argue unless they are really going after needless trash without a reason (i.e. bonus boss).

 

Example, I did a vet mode recently with a 20 something tank, and he just kept melting and dying. I never said a word. When he died, I rez'd him or took over the tank job. In the end all was fine.

 

Tanks were in short supply. The tank nerf was the nail in the coffin. Start treating tanks good guys. Too few not to.

A good tank is always ready for dps pulls

A good tank is always ready for dps pulls

 

Only after about 40 lvl (saying that when 50 was max, currently maybe even more).

 

Don't care. When I want to do FP I run solo MM as tank Nice refined's farm as well.

I don't care if the DPS pulls most of the time. Annoying but who cares so long as 3 things don't happen.

 

#1 That the rest of the group was given time to heal up (specially if we are running without healer).

 

#2 That you actually kill what you kill before it kills you. If you go flying off ahead of the group and attack another mob and die then the rest of us who were waiting on DCD's or only have off heals and are already banged up have to deal with your mess.

 

#3 That you don't piss and moan when you die because everyone else wasn't doing their part... You chose to go ahead, your suicide isn't on us.