I'm not sure what was expected by Bioware with this addition to the game, but I know this is an area of constant debate. We have the PvE players who in all reality just wish to get their daily done and be out, but then you have the PvP players who enjoy the constant battles they can find in a PvP zone. This has eventually led to multiple chat related arguments and disagreements. There's also the issue relating to the middle located heroic that seems to get camped by PvP'ers whom decide who can "pass". What does the community think of this situation? Is camping and killing people that only wish to get their quest completed wrong? Should people expect ganks, hardships, and sadness in a pvp zone? Should there be a more civilized system to go about this? I'm just curious and would like to hear thoughts from both sides.

Welcome to ilum

The quests are marked pvp or pve. The heroic quest can be done in either. Yes it is easier in the pvp area but that should just encourage people to group together (an alien concept I know, especially in an MMO these days. Some of us remember having to group in order to be able to do anything like quest or level). That is all there is honestly. If you go into the pvp area expect to die.

 

Some people have personal rules about how to treat others, because they would like the same level of respect. Other people are only here to kill people because that is why they pvp and it makes it fun for them, seeing as this is a game I can't fault them for it or get angry.

 

I generally wont fight anyone unless I get attacked, my group gets attacked, or my group attacks (which makes me find people I am more in line with). But getting upset over an area that is basically a free for all, well everyone is entitled to think what they want.

 

As youngster said, welcome to Ilum.

I got caught in the crossfires of this myself yesterday. I was with a couple other people and watched one of my friends get brutally slaughtered by my tank. Talk about a catch 22! LOL

 

I feel really bad about that.. but at the same time it is a PvP area and those that like to PvP have been waiting for a long time for some action outside of warzones. I see both points of view. And while I didn't like seeing my friend slaughtered, the people I was with were not wrong for doing it, even if it wasn't exactly fun for the victim.

 

Here's the thing. It's a PvP marked area on a PvE server. Yes I know you want to get it done but it's completely optional content. And it being a PvP area is PART OF THAT CONTENT. The dev's purposely made it that way. If they wanted folks to have a choice about the pvp aspect they would of put it in a PvE area where PvP minded folks could choose to flag themselves and go at it while the PvE folks could go about their biz in peace. You may not like it but it is what it is. Go scream at the devs if you want it different. Not the folks just playing the way it was meant to be.

 

Folks are going to have to understand when they walk into a pvp area you are choosing to get yourself flagged and play with PvP mindsets. It's not people being mean or picking on you or whatever. It's a game. And even if they are playing it a different way then you that doesn't make them jerks or ***holes. They just want the thrill of the fight that comes with trying to get their quests done. It adds another element. They can't stop and ask every person they walk by "you wanna pvp". No one asked me if I wanted to be killed or attacked when I got attacked. LOL and they shouldn't have to. Being jumped unexpectedly/jumping someone else is a main tactic for some classes from stealth!

 

Point is.. get together with some other people. Understand you might get brutally slaughtered. Maybe you grab a bunch of your friends and go after that person that smashed your face in if they really pissed you off. But don't be crying foul when people are simply playing content as the devs intended. That's unfair.

 

Edit: I don't corpse camp. (And for those that don't understand this concept that is sitting on someone, and killing them over and over so they completely can't continue to play the game or level entirely on that toon. If you can leave the area and go do something else... you are not being camped.) And I wouldn't do that. That's just mean. But killing folks as they run by or sit on objectives or whatever... that's just PvP.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Desiirea

It was interesting to watch. Some people would stick around and help mow down targets as they spawned for quests, help cover friendlies in the pvp area and others would ninja orbs while you're fighting the boss, hit marking a mob then leaving you with aggro to kill it, etc. It's interesting to watch how people behave when there's a matter of getting things done a little quicker.

It's simple for me

 

Imps = help them out whenever I can

 

Pubs = kill them whenever I can

Edited February 13, 2013 by Riggz

It's a PVP area. Asking for it to be otherwise is like asking for NM EC to be nerfed so that war hero-geared PVPers can beat it. . If you don't like PVP, the content's intended not for you, so you can expect to be uncomfortable if you want to get the rewards anyway. It's not the fault of the people playing the way the developers intended.

 

Same-faction kills are totally legitimate. They are competitors for the carrots just like opposite-faction. It's group-v-group content, not faction-v-faction.

 

Waiting in line -- that is despicable and destroys all the charm of the area, turning it into a stupid grindfest. And yeah, you're hurting others as well as yourself because you are contributing to a toxic social expectation that people shouldn't fight over objectives and bring PVP to the PVP quests.

 

I came from PVP servers and leveled my Sage on a High Imp population Server so everywhere I went I ran into them and normally in numbers greater than 2. I normally will leave 49 and below alone unless they are in a group and could possibly prove to be troublesome of course if they shoot first then all bets are off. I won't camp them and will get what I need and get out as Daily quest are not my favorite thing to do.

So playing kind of the devil's advocate here, do you think it "fair" that most of you contributing to defending the current event all in fact come from big time pvp guilds? Wouldn't the fact that it's easier for you to group with geared company and easily control the zone lead to a negative experience for a different player? From my personal experience I noticed a lot of prominant guilds were the ones controlling the flow of the area. Personally, my opinion isn't in either direction, but I feel this feedback may prove insightful for other folks.

mmm world PvP zone.....

To be honest most of the QQ/b****ing I have heard since rejoining SWTOR is that world PVP is nil. Now that we have world PVP again there's more QQ. Lets just be honest no game will ever make everyone happy, if you don't like PVP or think it's not worth the trouble, simply don't go there.

 

My only complaint is I can't gank my guildies.....I don't want to have to /gquit every time I see Taldari solo-questing <3 u Tal ya darn polock.

 

P.S. I wonder if they will ever add rewards for world PVP killing. i.e. WoW gave honor for world PVP kills, maybe some warzone comms would be nice, but not a biggie just a thought.

ASB is primarily a raiding guild; some members just PVP as well.

 

That said, I think it's not at all surprising that people "defending" the existence of PVP content are PVPers. (Hell, I think most of the people who post on this board are hardcore PVPers. Perhaps because there's more reason for PVPers to get to know people outside their guild /raidgroup than anyone else.)

 

I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with particular people's guilds "controlling" the area. (As far as I know, my guild never had any sustained presence in the PVP area larger than four people doing dailies). Being grouped with one other person didn't present a problem. Being on a level 46 sorc (admittedly in a full group) didn't present a problem. *shrug*

Edited February 13, 2013 by stringcat

The PvE crowd goes there because it's where the event is, there is currency to be had at a location, so that's where they're going. The objective isn't even one where killing people gives you anything (unless killing the orb carrier gives you the orb, didn't check that). I ran in there with a couple guildies who never run PvP, because it was on the quest list. It's a PvE quest in a PvP area.

The PvE crowd goes there because it's where the event is, there is currency to be had at a location, so that's where they're going. The objective isn't even one where killing people gives you anything (unless killing the orb carrier gives you the orb, didn't check that). I ran in there with a couple guildies who never run PvP, because it was on the quest list. It's a PvE quest in a PvP area.

 

That's where the PVP part of the event is and the PVP quests are, yeah. And it's on the quest list with a [PVP] in front of the name.

 

Killing people prevents them (1) taking orbs, or (2) capping the pylon. Both are on reasonably significant respawn timers. The reason they're on reasonably significant respawn timers is to encourage people to fight over them. So yeah, it's incentivized.

My opinion is that Bioware did a decent job with this revamp of Ilum. I remember the old days where people just lined up to be slaghtered.

 

All in all most people on this server (and most of the experienced guilds) don't go around ganking people. Usually as long as you do not hit them in the Northern area then you will not get retaliation. In the contested region yes you will get killed but depending on the times of the day even there Pubs and Imps help each other out.

 

With the addition of a couple of world bosses and a reputation grind it looks like people will be busy for a while.

 

I would have preferred if Bioware made it so you cannot get attacked in the Northern region unless you had your PVP flag on but that is coming from a primarily PVE player.

 

As far as the dedicated PVP guilds being the ones marshalling the area, well that maybe because they are more organized than the rest of us. As I said I have never had problems with ASB or GD to name a few, most of the players in these guilds prefer to fight on equal footing and don't go around picking on PVE players when they know there will be no challenge.

 

So far I would give this event a resounding success....and I have not yet seen the inside of the Gray Secant.

 

Just remember to enjoy yourselves and remember this is optional content, if you need help in the zone to ask at one of the bases and I am sure you will get a group pretty quickly.

You do have a point there Val. I was thinking more along the lines of nothing gained for engaging in PvP (a la Ilum back in the day where you at least got a count towards daily/weekly for killing someone).

Let's just all agree if we see a guy named Manka in the zone we kill him

I would also like to add there is nothing stopping the players soloing or in smaller guild from banding together. This is an MMO people! Maybe you are suppose to rally other people together who are doing/going through what you are. General chat is full of people talking there. Ask around for a group. If you don't want to go through that effort well don't get mad cause you can not oppose the people that do.

 

It's like expecting to go solo a current content 8 man raid. Do you see pvp people looking at bioware asking for that? "why bioware do i have to group up with other people to go experience raid content! I want to do this content! I shouldn't have to get pve gear either to beat the bosses!" You would look at that person like they were nuts. Why are you expecting to just go do this then?

 

Look I understand what pve players are saying. Now please take the time to listen to what the PvP people are saying here. You are stepping foot into PvP and asking for the play to be changed to suit what you want.

 

Valya is right. ASB is a PvE oriented guild first. I have been gaming for over 13 years in MMO's and always as a PvE player. It wasn't until this game that I really got into PvP so believe me when I say I understand a PvE players perspective. And PvE is still my primary game play (I haven't been stepping foot into PvP much recently)

 

P.S. *grabs the Kill Manka sign and starts parading*

Edited February 13, 2013 by Desiirea

Actually this thread has changed my opinions

 

I kill imps and pubs now I no longer judge

 

Unless Scyn is around, then we should all just get along...

Unless Scyn is around, then we should all just get along...

 

No everyone needs to kill Scyn!

 

(gosh now he's going to give me hell tonight during raid LOL)

I hope no one is sincerely frustrated by anything that happens in Ilum. I will never be out to ruins someone's day, I just love the dynamics of Ilum right now. Instead of running circles around the fleet, there is finally something to do!!

 

For those sincerely not interested in pvp, avoid the contested area. If you are interested, but new and/or undergeared, pick up the Recruit set and maybe buy some War Hero pieces. War Hero is so cheap now, it is very accessible, and nearly as good as Elite War Hero.

 

I think there is a fundamental conflict with how players view the Western Shelf now. Many players see the new area as pve with bizarre pvp rules that hamper their ability to quest. That section of Ilum was always meant to be a contained world pvp area though. The interesting thing, is that the world pvp works better now with additional reasons to go out there, thus the questing.

 

One nice thing is that reputation is legacy wide. There is a huge incentive for me(and others) to bring my alternate characters out there, and not just my biggest, baddest ones. I really need to get my marauder up to level.

The one thing that kind of gets me is, I keep hearing a lot of comments about it being a PvP area and if PvErs don't want to participate, don't show up in a PvP area, because this is finally what PvPers have been waiting for, etc. My question is, why is Outlaw's Den either empty or 1 person wanders through every time I go there? Structurally, this doesn't appear to be that different except now there are a bunch of people who aren't interested or experienced in PvP wandering into a PvP area because of a world event.

The one thing that kind of gets me is, I keep hearing a lot of comments about it being a PvP area and if PvErs don't want to participate, don't show up in a PvP area, because this is finally what PvPers have been waiting for, etc. My question is, why is Outlaw's Den either empty or 1 person wanders through every time I go there? Structurally, this doesn't appear to be that different except now there are a bunch of people who aren't interested or experienced in PvP wandering into a PvP area because of a world event.

 

Because there is something there worth fighting over. Quest objectives.

 

Edit: the whole point is everyone wants to get in there, get their quests done and get out (i sure they heck am not standing around just killing people for hours for no reason) But you are standing on the objective. You are killing mobs I need. Now I can stand around and play carebear and take turns (and in pve that is what usually goes down) but this is PvP. The mentality is completely flipped. You kill and get what you need. It's not nice, it's not friendly (though you might stop to chat at someone you know or give them a pass if you are good friends with them, or be friends and kick each others butts because you both are playing the game), it's a war out there!

Edited February 13, 2013 by Desiirea

The one thing that kind of gets me is, I keep hearing a lot of comments about it being a PvP area and if PvErs don't want to participate, don't show up in a PvP area, because this is finally what PvPers have been waiting for, etc. My question is, why is Outlaw's Den either empty or 1 person wanders through every time I go there? Structurally, this doesn't appear to be that different except now there are a bunch of people who aren't interested or experienced in PvP wandering into a PvP area because of a world event.

 

I am sure if they added WZ comms for fighting in the Outlaws Den we would see a lot more Open World PVP

The one thing that kind of gets me is, I keep hearing a lot of comments about it being a PvP area and if PvErs don't want to participate, don't show up in a PvP area, because this is finally what PvPers have been waiting for, etc. My question is, why is Outlaw's Den either empty or 1 person wanders through every time I go there? Structurally, this doesn't appear to be that different except now there are a bunch of people who aren't interested or experienced in PvP wandering into a PvP area because of a world event.

 

Outlaws den has no content, no intended gameplay, it is a sandbox, ironically. Even, if other players are there, I want an objective, some game intended system that gives me a goal to achieve. Forum discussions with a whole server full of interested posters can have no resolution, so my only intent is to give insight to anyone that would read.

 

To go into more detail: I like both PvP and PvE. Ilum is well suited for someone like that. Everyone is going to like PvP a certain amount, and PvE a certain amount. Ideally, players coming into the contested area would like both elements at least a little. For players that enter the PvP area, I cannot see them as wandering players that stumbled into a bad part of town, so to speak. The game makes it very clear what they are getting into. I truly do not like killing players that just want to avoid it all, but the players in the Ilum contested area are going knowingly into the fires of PvP and I hope we can all have crazy fun messing around in there. I can't wait to see all the ways my toons will be slaughtered.

 

I am committed to making this my last public comment on the matter, but to answer the underlying question directly. The Ilum event is the merger of two things, correct? If one doesn't like both of those things, ignore the part one doesn't like. Seems logical.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Rylorn

I would have preferred if Bioware made it so you cannot get attacked in the Northern region unless you had your PVP flag on but that is coming from a primarily PVE player.

This is the case, is it not? I see a lot of blue imperials.

 

One nice thing is that reputation is legacy wide. There is a huge incentive for me(and others) to bring my alternate characters out there, and not just my biggest, baddest ones. I really need to get my marauder up to level.

Admit it, you need a level 50 sage healer, to come heal with the kool kids.