Honestly, the gear does matter on tank characters. I healed Esseles HM this week and I had there a tank in 204 PvP gear. It wasn't enough. That being said he was doing it wrong. Gear doesn't matter for experienced players who know what they're doing. For others - gear helps them to make many mistakes(like bad rotation, bad boss orientation etc.).

 

TL, DR - gear matters when everybody stays in AoE and expect healer to heal them and tank is about doing dmg.

are u *********** kidding me? you couldn't keep a tank in 204 gear up through esseless? and you think that's a gear problem?

Gear doesn't matter for experienced players who know what they're doing. For others - gear helps them to make many mistakes(like bad rotation, bad boss orientation etc.).

In other words, skill matters. Not gear.

Just curious (because I've never tried it), does bolster not work with empty shells?

 

I was under the impression that so long as you had a piece of gear in each slot, you would get bolstered to the "expected level of gear" for flashpoints and SM operations. No?

Yes and no. And of course it's different for flashpoints vs operations.

Empty shells will give you a decent bunch of stats, more than you would get if you don't have any piece there at all. However, if you don't have any armoring you don't get any bolster to your armor stats, at least in flashpoints. So you'll have about 200 armor points. If you have any mod whatsoever, you get the minimum armor from bolster - which in HM FPs is about equivalent to rating 200 gear (6732 points for heavy armor). If you have more armor, you get what armor you had for that piece.

Weapons work the same - if you don't have a hilt, you only get measly weapon damage (mostly from your bonus damage).

In operations, you don't get an armor bolster in the same way, so if you bring little armor, you get crappy armor value after bolster. Thus, all sub-65s get paper armor. Except from that, SM ops bolster is much more powerful than fp bolster.

Also, you get "kind-of-not-too-crappy" stats from fp bolster - for instance, if you have empty shells and minimum L10 left side without any accuracy, you get about 300 points of accuracy. That gives you a little shy of 105% accuracy post bolster.

If you have any mod whatsoever, you get the minimum armor from bolster - which in HM FPs is about equivalent to rating 200 gear (6732 points for heavy armor). If you have more armor, you get what armor you had for that piece.

Thanks for the data. Would it be correct to say that, for a HM flashpoint:

1. As long as you have a piece of gear in every slot, and no empty shells, you'd be bolstered to 200 rating?

2. Any piece of gear you have over 200 rating will take precedence over the bolster value (for that one piece of gear)?

Thanks for the data. Would it be correct to say that, for a HM flashpoint:

 

1. As long as you have a piece of gear in every slot, and no empty shells, you'd be bolstered to 200 rating?

2. Any piece of gear you have over 200 rating will take precedence over the bolster value (for that one piece of gear)?

More or less, yes. This is at level 65. A level 60 wearing 200 gear would be bolstered above what 200 rating would normally be.

Then there's the question of what is usable stats. For instance, if you have less than 200 gear (at 65), you probably should have a bit less than 100% unbolstered accuracy, as you get a little bit of each stat for each piece that is bolstered.

I have tested a bunch of combos, but it's hard (err, well, boring...) to produce really equivalent gear at all levels. The difference isn't that big, though.

One exception is empty, unmodded xp-armor - it bolsters extremely badly, so you will have maybe 5% extra handicap there.

One exception is empty, unmodded xp-armor - it bolsters extremely badly, so you will have maybe 5% extra handicap there.

Good to know.

It sounds like merovejec was doing his group a disservice by queueing with empty shells. At the very least one can pop in some of the cheapo green armoring/mods.

Why yes. It's never hard for the person in the empty gear. It's hard for the healers who have to keep them alive, and the dps who are working their aggro drops into their rotation carrying the empty-gear head.

 

There's a difference between "it can be done" (you're absolutely right, it can) and "it's an easy breezy-run for all four members." I prefer the latter, which is why I always show up geared, and why I get pretty peeved at the empty gear lvl 50 tanks who, despite kolto shells and hots, manage to lose 70% of their hit points in the first few mms of a pull.

People who think they're all that don't take others into consideration, or consider that they may have been carried by two to three players who DID show up well-geared (for the content). Nor do they realize that 45 minute or worse fp could have been done in half that or better.

It sounds like merovejec was doing his group a disservice by queueing with empty shells. At the very least one can pop in some of the cheapo green armoring/mods.

Note that it's still not more than 20-25% worse than having recommended gear, so it's very possible that merovejec was still a better choice then other alternatives available at the time. Sure, he had less carrying capacity than if he had worn recommended gear, but it apparently was enough as the content was cleared with him as the healer.

(Also, the xp armor has the armoring component built in, so you don't get the paper armor effect.)

For a tank empty shells are the worst you can do. With empty shells and FP Bolster, you have around 200 Armor Rating, without any Armor on, you get 8.7k. With some sort of armoring(guess it doesn't even matter what level) you get something around 11k.

For dps though, empty shells are better, since you loose a bit of bonus und weapon damage without empty shells. Although they are real glass cannons that way.

This is for HM FP bolster.

Why yes. It's never hard for the person in the empty gear. It's hard for the healers who have to keep them alive, and the dps who are working their aggro drops into their rotation carrying the empty-gear head.

 

There's a difference between "it can be done" (you're absolutely right, it can) and "it's an easy breezy-run for all four members." I prefer the latter, which is why I always show up geared, and why I get pretty peeved at the empty gear lvl 50 tanks who, despite kolto shells and hots, manage to lose 70% of their hit points in the first few mms of a pull.

Yes, i know what you mean, but I was in both situations, as a lvl 50 tank with empty gear and a healer in empty gear healing a lvl 51 tank. Both were fine. If was a funny story since we did HM Lost Island and a guy came in and he seen my empty gear and a lvl 51 tank and said: HM Lost Island is impossible to do after 4.0 and with you guys, no way! Ofc we did it, wiped 3 times on the 3rd boss cause i had to get used to commando healing as i never done it before.

So i played a spec i never played before, in empty gear, healing a lvl 51 tank and we done HM Lost Island.

are u *********** kidding me? you couldn't keep a tank in 204 gear up through esseless? and you think that's a gear problem?

8k EHPS wasn't enough. gear was part of the problem. If the healer is pulling THESE numbers on Esseles, the group is doing something wrong. I am always on Parse with my commando as it has the nice cool window called Party HoTs for probes. I heal NiM raids with commando, I really know what am I doing.

Good to know.

 

It sounds like merovejec was doing his group a disservice by queueing with empty shells. At the very least one can pop in some of the cheapo green armoring/mods.

Yes, as it was mentioned "skill matters. Not gear." so with great skill you can easily overcome the handycap and save time and money when bothering with gearing yourself

merovejec was still a better choice then other alternatives available at the time

i take that as a compliment

Yes, as it was mentioned "skill matters. Not gear." so with great skill you can easily overcome the handycap and save time and money when bothering with gearing yourself

With bolster, gear certainly isn't important. But failing to put cheapo green mods in your empty shells, you're BREAKING bolster (according to the poster above who claims to have tested this).

You've moved past the "I'm so skilled I don't need gear" into the realm of "I'm making the experience for others worse because I cannot be bothered to expend the slightest effort to take advantage of bolster"

With bolster, gear certainly isn't important. But failing to put cheapo green mods in your empty shells, you're BREAKING bolster (according to the poster above who claims to have tested this).

Nothing is broken when he's using XP shells. The only thing that really can "break" is armor bolster, and that is broken by not having any armoring at all in your shell. That leaves you with way less (200 vs 5000-8000) armor than both going naked and wearing armorings in your shell.

Empty XP armor is only about 5% worse than regular bolster. I can't say for sure why, but my two theories are:

1. They have very uneven item modifications rating, which could be disadvantageous.
   
2. They only contain armoring, which gives less stats than the other mods.
   

In theory, you might be able to produce something which bolsters better than regular low level stuff.

Also, I don't recommend empty XP armor to tanks, as you get seriously low HP with it. As a healer, that's less of a problem.

You've moved past the "I'm so skilled I don't need gear" into the realm of "I'm making the experience for others worse because I cannot be bothered to expend the slightest effort to take advantage of bolster"

Filling the XP armor with mods defeats part of the benefit with it, as it then can't be used by lower level alts until said mods are removed.

However, as a general point, lots of players are not at the level where gear no longer matters for them in bolstered environments. For instance, if you can beat R-9XR/I5-T1 but not Kyramla, you're in the zone where better gear does matter.

Nothing is broken when he's using XP shells. The only thing that really can "break" is armor bolster, and that is broken by not having any armoring at all in your shell. That leaves you with way less (200 vs 5000-8000) armor than both going naked and wearing armorings in your shell.

 

Empty XP armor is only about 5% worse than regular bolster. I can't say for sure why, but my two theories are:

1. They have very uneven item modifications rating, which could be disadvantageous.
   
2. They only contain armoring, which gives less stats than the other mods.
   

Just to be clear, is this what you're saying?

1. Empty XP shells is 5% worse as far as power, mainstat, etc. goes.

2. Empty XP shells (with no armoring modifications) is 95% worse as far as the "armor" stat goes.

200 armor compared to 5000-8000 armor isn't good for a tank, as it affects damage reduction.

Just to be clear, is this what you're saying?

 

1. Empty XP shells is 5% worse as far as power, mainstat, etc. goes.

2. Empty XP shells (with no armoring modifications) is 95% worse as far as the "armor" stat goes.

 

200 armor compared to 5000-8000 armor isn't good for a tank, as it affects damage reduction.

What I'm saying is very close to number 1:

Empty XP shells = same armor as any other armor with sub-200 armoring (6732 armor for non-tank heavies in hm fps). ~95% of the stats of other sub-200 armor.

Empty regular shells = ~200 armor points in total, i.e. not bolstered at all (as there is no armoring), but stats more like other sub-200 armor.

(XP shells have a non-removable armoring component, so they can never be truly "empty" for this purpose.)

So with the XP armor you get, for instance, ~55k HP instead of ~58k, or something like that. It can be a bit more than 5% difference. It's not a huge difference, but noticeable.

(XP shells have a non-removable armoring component, so they can never be truly "empty" for this purpose.)

Ahh, this is interesting.

I never bothered with the DvL event, so I didn't get the XP shells.

Thanks for the data.

Ahh, this is interesting.

 

I never bothered with the DvL event, so I didn't get the XP shells.

 

Thanks for the data.

Anyway, i finished all the fps i was in, with that gear, no problem, I dont think i was carried by the other people as most of the people in the game now need carrying. Glad this event is done.

Nope.

That. Is. Awesome!

Nope.

Nice. I intended to try that but you saved me the trouble

[EDIT]

Slightly off-topic but watching the video reminded me of this thread. Was nothing in this fight reflectable? Cause i didn't see you using saber reflect.

Nice. I intended to try that but you saved me the trouble

[EDIT]

Slightly off-topic but watching the video reminded me of this thread. Was nothing in this fight reflectable? Cause i didn't see you using saber reflect.

Apart from the adds autohits, which I didn't get, since the carnage mara was aoe'ing them, I honestly don't know. Tried the Lightning speheres and blue circles, but it didn't work as far as I could see.

Apart from the adds autohits, which I didn't get, since the carnage mara was aoe'ing them, I honestly don't know. Tried the Lightning speheres and blue circles, but it didn't work as far as I could see.

I think i'll try it with the blue sphere but wait for the rock to fall, maybe it'll work. Anyway thanks for the video, nice job.

It's impressive but I'm sure none of you were newbs, noobs, or an average pug-level player. All moved effectively around AOE and used plenty of AOEs on the adds around the boss, all have perfect or near-perfect rotations, all probably know each other (presumably, the video text was too small for me to see if all in the same guild).

My main complaint about people who come into a pug-setting undergeared is they are also typically bad. Bad gear + bad play is typical in a pug setting (in the "harder" content, at least). And honestly I'm not hanging around past a couple enrages north of 20% if at that point I check and of course the gear is bad (meaning below recommended rating). At least if a bad player comes in with better gear, it's easier to make up for the deficiency in ONE rather than the other people having to work extra hard unnecessarily to make up for deficiency in both. (also, the bad player with better gear, if they actually listen to advice, will see immediate improvement since the gear isn't actually the part tripping up the group)

I'm sure we're all super impressed by the best players downing content they've done countless times with the same players over and over and over and over endlessly forever in the worst or nonexistent gear. I respect other people's time a little more, and when going into a PUG setting, I will make sure I'm as geared as I can be, EVEN IF IT'S SUPREME OVERKILL, because I'm not going to make things harder for anyone else if I can help it. I'm not super proud of getting carried, and for the few times that I am, I'm not going to run around telling everyone I'm the best and it's all easy and I didn't get carried and I had bad gear and everyone who can't do the same are losers