Over the past year there have been many threads started and posts made, by people who are interested in,

1) changes to the ship droid to make it a full companion.

2) expressed interest in playing a droid class.

3) concerning HK-51 being added to the game.

4) engame gear for droid companions.

 

Responses to these threads have varied.

 

While it has been reiterated many times that BW will not consider adding a playable droid race/class to the game, and I think there are some very good reasons not to try...I still want a droid class.... I want it as a high legacy level unlock, that helps tie my other class stories together. And I want it as a utility class.

 

But, the bottom line is that it would be quite a task, to create a story that would be interesting and make sense. And it would be even more difficult to design a new class that is interesting to play, but isn't game breaking in some fashion.

 

It could potentially cost quite a bit to add this content to the game, but it may not be something interesting to enough

people. There would be a lot of hurdles, but surely they could be overcome. And some of the solutions could be pretty simple. So this is an open call for anyone who would like to play a droid class to speak up & put their ideas into the pot.

 

Problem

Solution

 

1) Models for Non-anthropomorphic droids create some pretty severe problems.

a) astromechs & probe droids platforming for datacrons will obliterate immersion.

b) the current system of taxis & mounts are incompatible with non-humanoid droids.

c) moving at sprint speeds all the models seem somehow off already, but with T7-01 the effect is magnified.

d) the models are fairly static, and don't have movement motion ~ visually boring to look at for 50 levels.

e) probe droids have no external que to indicate which side is the "front" for players who have backstabbing attacks.

f) the natural camera position is based on a model of a certain physical height & doesn't fit shorter droids.

The only practical solution to these problems is: non-anthropomorphic droids are just not allowed. Or they are only allowed on a "closed track" for part of the class story. So ~ no chance to fulfill those dreams of being R2-D2, T3-M4, or T7-01, while playing with non-droid characters. This leaves the player with the option of being something between C3-P0/C2-N2 & HK-47/51 for multiplayer. So basically, you get to play the perenial wannabe to HK-51 ~ but you at least get to play a droid !

 

2)What do playable droids add to the game?

The class could easily wind up as a secondary mirror to either the smuggler/agent or BH/trooper classes. So ~ potentially no new variation introduced to the game, besides the cosmetic appearance of the class.

a) in terms of game play, that isn't already in the game?

The "low hanging fruit" of things that are not in the game right now are a form of, hybrid tank/healing, buff/debuff, Melee hand to hand, beast handling, specs. Some of these don't make any sense for a droid class.

b) Players who are interested in playing a droid class are a subset of the player base.

Because it's a subset of the player base this is not something the devs can devote a whole lot of time to.

c) How would the class "fit" to play well with other classes? Stims, Medpacks, Kolto, & force based heals applying to droids doesn't make much sense.

Repair kits could be added as player crafted items, and to a few specific venders, or the class could depend on some sort of self heals.

d) How would the class "fit" with the canon of the game & SW universe

Not really a problem, given the history of lore & precendent for self motivated droids in the SW universe.

 

 

3)What would have to be added to the game

a) Props ~ a class ship & hanger, trainers, endgame venders

Reuse a ship already in the game, one of the common models that is used on landing pads throughout the game. This would require that an interior be created. Reusing one of the existing class ships, would sort of wreck something for those classes. The hanger would be added to one of the elevators in fleet/ space ports/ stations & the NPCs would be found in the hanger, or use corner of the interfleet transport area.

b) VO work for the player, for the mission givers, & for every NPC that has a conversation roll in every FP

Reuse of the VO work of another class for the player, the mission givers, & the NPC's The droid might reuse another class' VO work by inpersonating their master ~ using holo recordings. Or they might just reuse the VO work of another class with some serious distortion added. For part of the class story, the player VO could be the simple beep codes used by the atromechs already in the game.

c) companions ~ in SW droids ARE companions, who plays second fiddle to a droid?

Either add 12 companions or the 2 factions must share some companions. Each of these companions will need to have some explanation for their dependency on a droid, So these some pretty pathetic companions! Anything that wouldn't require new VO work would be a bonus. Some examples I cooked up:

 

d) a starter planet

The existing planets must somehow be reused as a unique instance just as a starter world for this class.

e) an average of 1 class quest for every subsection of each planet.

Class quests after the starter world is actually more of creative writing story building task than anything, not really my cup of tea. But I feel like it has to involve the assasin droids on Nar Shadaa, the gree, and encounters with each of the droid companions. I think It should probably also tie in with Mentor & Healer from D7 somehow. Perhaps there is room for a HK-47 demolition derby?

f) gear, gear appearances, & color matched versions ~ that only work for 1 class

The number of these appearances will need to be limited, because this bit could take a great deal of work.

g) A 5th class buff?

Make the main stat accuracy & add a +5% class buff. Adjust the endgame damage of the class' dps abilities downward to compensate for the effect of stacking so much accuracy.

h) space mission modifications for the new ship model?

It's a legacy class ~ leave the space mission terminal out & players can get their space mission fix on their main.

i) A WHOLE lot of Cutscenes

Yeah - this is a big stumbling block

 

 

 

4)Other specific problems with game mechanics for droid characters

a) Strictly speakly, capacity for moral choice is rare for droids in the SW canon, LS/DS choices would be bizarre.

LS/DS appearance should just be ignored, maybe the droid's eyes color shift from yellow to red at most. Altruistic behavior at the dereliction of their primary objective doesn't quite make sense. Unless the droid is somehow encouraged to consider the broad ramifications of such choices. The droid has to have a morality moment, "good people doing bad things for the right reasons, and bad people doing bad things for good reasons. But it is the sum of our actions that define us as good or evil beings" etc.

 

b) How is a droid character going to be the "lead" character in their story?

The only way I can think of that a LS rep droid could be lead is if they are trying to be loyal to a missing master, and if the DS imp droid pulls a frankenstien and kills their master. Not a new story - either way, but maybe the telling of it can be interesting. The LS imp story could also make sense by the virtue of the droid doing the galaxy a favor by offing their master. But what about the DS rep story?

c) What exactly do droids want with currency?

Simple, the first companion explains why the group needs money, it's to maintain/upgrade the droid & ship.

d) What about a story? What use for diologue would any type of droid have?

This gets complicated, because most tasks handled by a droid would be issued by instruction from another computer, somehow the droid player must observe the reason they are seeking conversation with NPC's.

e) The VO for the planet story missions would make absolutely no sense if the NPC were speaking with a droid.

The NPC's must either believe they are talking to someone other than the droid ~ a remotely present owner, or there must be some reason for them to fear treating the droid in a disrespectful manner.

f) How does that story end?

 

I've already posted some ideas for how to solve these problems. And I'm sure many of you have better ideas than I do. What are some different solutions to these problems? What problems have I overlooked?

 

The practical solutions to the above problems may not produce a class that would be interesting to play. The real question is, "would you play a droid class with these limitations?"

some idea of a class story

 

 

Edited November 24, 2012 by Cleet_Xia

maybe i can help:

 

class: Droid

 

(my thougth was a crew of all droid companions)

 

Adv. classes:

Assasin droid

Service droid

 

SKILL TREES

 

Assasin droid trees:

Assasination - DPS with sniper rifle (no stealth)

Hacking - shared tree: debuff/cc master (no stealth)

??????? - melee combat (stealth) at 31 get the ability targeting system disruption (forces enemy to attack other enemies, does notwork on bosses)

 

Service droid trees: (no stealth at all)

maximum efficiency - buff/ healing tree (mainly buff oreiented)

hacking - shared debuff/cc tree

Defensive systems - tanking tree (relies on low base mitigation but creating area of affect shields to guard allies, not true tank in the sense we know)

 

NOTES FOR TREES

for pvp, the hackign trees stuns become messes that break on dmamage

 

assasin droid can equip sniper rifle and power generator, or dual weild vibroknives

 

support droid has power generator and pistol, or shield gen and pistol

 

this makes them different enough so that they arent a rehash of an existing class.

 

THOUGHTS ON STORY

as i stated earlier, all the comps should be droids, with the romance being a cyborg.

 

the ship is a ship you steal from your cruel master.

 

it is the generic smugler ship that you see al the time, a heroic on ord mantell is revolved around one.

 

starting planet: Hutta (becasue hutta is neutral), you start on hutta as a translation dorid for Wervo murm, a bith musician. he is mean. you do some fetch quests to help him get ready for a concert, then at theconcert, you have a puzzle to solve.

 

solving this puzzle lets you watch his performance, your puzzle solving be it good or bad determines the outcome of the eprfomance. Wervo murm is killed if bad performance, spared if good.

 

Wervo has a shuttle pass of planet, if he dies, theives teal it and you msut get it back, if he survives you msut revolt and defeat him and take it.

 

then you fly off hutta and are given a choice, imperial space, or republic space, this choice can not be undone!!!

then at fleet the normal bruhaha of pickign crafting and adv class begins.

 

PROLOGUE ON CAPITOL: you ghave heard of a friendly droid named ???? he tels you of his plight, you do stuf to get him off the planet. When you are stelaign a ship to leave, he is killed by an antagonist. you grab his datacore and flee on the ship.

 

CH. 1: you are trying to fix the droid from capitol planet. No companion on second planet,

 

NAR SHADDA: you get an astromech as your companion: he operates the tables at a casino, this casino was offering a part you need as a grand prize for a tournament, this is a puzzle tournament, starti9ng with soemthing easy like towers of hanoi, and getting tougher.

 

eventually you learn the tournament is impossbile. it is a trick to make money.

you adventure around and befreind the astromech, he promises to cheat for you. you flee and get a new companion, he is snarky. ("he" used becasue it is easier)

 

the astromech is a debuffer

 

Tatooine: Antagoinists = jawas, htey have stolen a part to the droid from the capitol planet. you save a czerka assasination droid from the jawas. assasination droid is a ranged dpser.

 

Alerderaan: steal the last part for the droid

 

CH. 1 boss: The antagonist that broke the drodi from the capitol planet, he hacks the droid after you repair it. you defeat the droid. Then fight antagonist, he uses adds as his main mechanic. his driods get infected by a virus and then try to kill him.

 

Light choice: save him

Dark choice: let them kill him

 

CH.2 if saved you learn he is a scientist, he gives you tasks regarding the rise of sentient dorids across the galaxy.

 

If killed he is a generic scientist that gives this to you.

 

on quesh you get a fembot from one of the hutts. Buffer/healing.

 

Hoth: You get a winter survival droid, generic melee tank.

 

CH. 2 Boss: a mini version of mentor (the boss from directive 7) you defeat him. learn of a plot to kill all biologicals in galaxy.

 

CH.3 go across galaxy stoppign the sentient drodis from doign evil. helped by the antagonist form ch. 1

 

voss: you get a cyborg, the cyborg is a aoe shield tank. and romance. cyborg was a eprosnall bodyguard to diplomats, but is tired fo that job.

 

Correlia: You, by solving puzzles, hack into the main evil drodis computer core.

 

dark: yuo destory all those dorids

light: you bring them to good, and you satrt a droid organic allaince.

 

 

GEAR:

your gear doesnt change, but you can get cusotmization sets that make you a different colored or differnet form, still humanoid though.

 

so you cna be a red c2-n2 or a green one.

 

DARK/LIGHT CHANGES

 

as you get darker you become broken looking, dirtier

 

lightside you get cleaner, until you are shiny like stainless steel.

 

FINAL NOTES: it is very rough around the edges, but i like this idea

 

later today i will post possbile drodi bodies

Personally I love all your ideas and would have started my first character/class as a droid when I first picked up this game if it were available at the time.

Unfortunately Bioware has already stated that they have no plans on making any droid player characters with this game as it doesn't make much sense with all the romance options that other classes have...Yep, we can't have droids because Bioware is to enamored will all their lackluster and poorly written companion romance options...

The "3)c) Problem" (companions) is probably the reason why BioWare won't do it, or it would require a long time before we can see it.

 

It is unusual, quite unnatural to see a droid be the master/leader of Organic being. For a story-driven MMO, it is a serious concern to take care, because you have to either find a solid and believable reason to see an organic be under orders from a droid, or give droid-only companions.

 

While having droid-only companions can look like being an easy task, it's not. It's not, because companions have to have a proper personality. Yes, droids with personality exist, but they're quite rare and and rather unique... So firstly, you have to find a story justifying that something so unlikely occurs. Then there is also the risk that seeing a bunch of with-personnality droids can feel redundant and so, it leaves no flavour to the player. So the scenarist have to be really productive and skillful.

 

It's a real challenge for a scenarists to do a droid-class. It's quite a "sink or swim" with high chances to sink.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Altheran

i can see a problem. Droid class yes sound good, but it would have to be droid "race" right. Or remove option to pick race for droids.

 

So yo pick droid race and select the type of droid in character customisation. then select a class. Forceusers should be offlimits imo. It might work with trooper and scoundrell, exept for the part about humanoids taking orders from a droid.

 

Imo there´s just to many obstacles to make it viable in the near future. Maybe in an expansion, then just make it a droidrace, droidclass thing. So you can only play droidclass as droid, and droids can only play the droidclass.

Here's another idea.

 

The Droid's story:

Chapter 1 - You arrive on Hutta with your owner. A perfomer hired by the Hutts. While on Hutta, you complete odd jobs (allowing you to go out and complete missions), until you get the chance to escape (add a new zone to the hutt palace). You then make your way to the spaceport, hoping to catch the first shuttle out. But, at the spaceport, you are stopped by an engineer/checkpoint officer, who scans you to make sure you aren't stolen. When he scans you, he discovers that you are, in fact, a rogue, sentient droid. He find your thought pattern and ability to overwite your own programming interesting. He asks to accompany you, and together you escape the planet.

 

You proceed to travel to various other planets, looking for parts to upgrade and repair yourself with. However, the final, and most important part you need must be purchased from the black market. You contact a Pirate leader on Nar Shadda and arrange a meeting. At the meeting you are requested to break into a Hutt's casino and steal an item (while on this mission, you coincidentally find your old master, and are given the chance to kill/spare him). When you return, you're about to make the trade-off, when trade officials raid the complex. You, your companion, and the Pirate must fight your way out. You escape to the experimental ship the Pirate's organisation was developing, and flee. On board the ship, you gather in the meeting room, install the part (which you recovere during your escape), and discuss the future. Her organisation imprisoned, she decides to join you... but on what? The engineer suggests looking for other droids that have developed sapience, in the hopes of studying them.

 

Thus ends Chapter 1. You now have two companions, an Human Male Engineer who hopes to create a new type of AI based on the data he can collect while following you. He is a buff/debuffer. And the Female Miralian Pirate, on whose vessel you ride, She is a DPS gunslinger type o' gal. Your ship resembles a large Hyena Droid, with hallways within that the passengers can navigate.

 

Chapter 2 - Is spent travelling the galaxy finding sentient droids (new companions). The droids you find come from all walks of life, and represent most models of droids. Five main events occur in this chapter.

1) You discover an enclave of sentient droids (on some planet).

2) Your ship becomes to crowded for all its passengers, and you must find a new location to send the droids you find.

3) You discover that you're being follwed by a mysterious Gand bounty hunter.

4) You confront the Gand when you encounter it on one of your missions. He has just destroyed the last droid in the enclave you were trying to contact. You fight, and the Gand reveals that you must never bring about the "War of One Thousand Years Past" or resurrect the "Ancient Ones."

5) You bring up the "War of One Thousand Years Past" and "Ancient Ones" with the droids at your enclave. Nothing is known.

 

Thus ends Chapter 2. You now have all your companions (companions stay on ship).

 

Chapter 3 - Chapter 3 revolves around learning about the "Ancient Ones." You travel the galaxy, find ancient artefacts, and learn about a planet of droids. You continue research until you find the coordinates of the planet. When you arrive at the planet, you make you way through overgrowth and ruins, until you find an altar, with two behemoths kneeling on either side. One is a Silentium, the other is an Abominor. Your actions up to this point determine which one you awaken. Light sided > Silentium. Dark sided > Abominor. The droid you awaken speaks with you, then destroys the other. You are informed of the war between the Silentium and Abominor, and join the faction you awakened. *

 

Thus ends chapter 3. You have discovered ancient droids of incredible power and joined them. You have also pulled yourself into an ancient war.

 

Eventual release of a fourth chapter would entain the search for Silentium artefacts/Abominor weapons from around the galaxy to destroy the other faction. Thus ending the war and making yourself robot king.

 

TL;DR - You're an escaped slave who joins a researcher and pirate, form a private droid army, then eventually become robot king.

 

*I realize the Silentium/Abominor aren't in the galaxy at this point. They already left, this could be a faction that remained. It happens.

 

 

As far as being a droid goes, character creation would let you modify colour, grasping mechanism (hands), chest plate, and head. As you apply armour, it would be modified to work with droids. Potentially, rather than wearing armour, you would 'assimilate' pieces. This would slightly modify the way you look and speak as normal, but not be as drastic as with organics. Although, in some cases it would have considerable effects (such as with high level PVP gear).

 

The Heal function for a droid would be something like 'Scavenge', where you hunch down, pick parts off the ground and them stick them on yourselve to make repairs.

It is unusual, quite unnatural to see a droid be the master/leader of Organic being.

 

It's not entirely impossible to write sensibly. The first act for most of the classes revolves around taking orders from someone else with the later acts moving on to becoming more self motivated. It would be entirely possible for a story to be written where a trusted droid of a high ranking member of their faction (a Bounty Hunter, Sith Lord, Reclamation Officer, or Mad Scientist for Imps; a Jedi Master for Repub) spends the first act running around doing jobs for their master, getting put in charge of other subordinates over the course of the first act (a sufficiently enlightened Jedi Master could easily put a trusted droid in charge of watching over her padawan while she's off doing something too dangerous to bring the padawan along for). The second act and third acts would revolve around the droid taking the lead in rescuing their master (for Repub) or bringing down the vengeance hammer upon those who struck her down (for Imps).

 

Considering all of the "permanent loyalty protocols" involved in the final conversations of the droid companions, it's not that hard to imagine a droid that knows a helluva lot more than the people around them (thanks to having been around for so much longer) and, as such, ends up taking charge, even though they're technically subservient.

 

If you wanted to get really interesting with the story, the writer could pull something a Pinocchio or a Data (from Star Trek): a masterwork of droid engineering designed to become a real, sentient creature rather than simply a subservient tool. The companions would represent allies along the way that are willing to defend their new friend, who they view as a person rather than an object, and do what they can to ensure its continual freedom. You could even create some really interesting new dialogue options for Directive 7 (where you're functionally fighting against a kind of AI rebellion, albeit a hivemind variant). A final companion, or even a potential culminating villain, could be a "sibling": the companion would be too naive to survive and need to be guarded/nurtured by the droid character whereas the villain could be one that took a darker approach (i.e. organics and synthetics cannot exist simultaneously as equals and one of them, specifically the organics, must be destroyed).

 

It's not really all that hard to come up with an interesting story driven by a droid main character that still makes sense as a droid. The only real "problem" is that it's a specific race/class combination, which, ostensibly, BW doesn't want to have (at least judging by their statements that they don't plan on making Wookiees, Trandoshans, or Droids playable races, all of which would require heavy reworking of existing models and gear appearances or need to exist as explicit race/class combinations).

 

The bigger problem, honestly, is coming up with a mechanically unique and interesting playstyle and ability theme for a droid class. Most of the "assassin droid" style attacks would simply be ripped off, mechanically, from a Scoundrel/Operative. "War droid" would just mimic Trooper/BHs. The "medical/support droid" would really just be a healing variant of classes the other types of droids ripped off already. Even from the perspective of their resource and general playstyle, you have to wonder how they would operate: mechanically, most resource mechanisms that would make sense for droids (energy/charge/power/ammo) are already in use and duplicating them, especially when most of the abilities would be only minor changes from existing abilities. This is one of the primary problems with creating new classes in MMOs: to avoid making the new class simply a recast version of another class or an obvious hybrid between the two, you have to get really creative with the essential mechanics of the class, which is difficult to do realistically without having access to the actual code of the game (to see what limitations are hard coded and which are simply ignored and unused).

 

For a decent write up for a class, I think it's better to start off with designing the base class first, since that explicitly determines the resource mechanism and story. Simply saying "one AC is DPS/Heal and the other is DPS/Tank" doesn't really explain much of the design of the class. You need to decide on specific mechanics that differentiate it from the other classes while allowing for enough room to differentiate each AC from the others. For example, Consulars all use Force as a resource: it's the simplest resource out there, but provides enough differentiation to allow for 2 separate and distinctly different ACs to arise, by providing Sages with a larger pool and Shadows with additional utility in the form of stealth as well as stances. Knights are similarly differentiated, though less by their resource, which is pretty much static, but rather by the "upgraded" mechanism by which each AC gains a majority of their Focus (Sentinels use Zealous Strike, Guardians use Sundering Strike, both of which are on very different CDs which creates very different playstyles between each, not to mention that Sentinels also get a "second" resource in Centered stacks). From a sheer creative perspective, the story and writing is comparatively simple as opposed to the necessity to create a pair of mechanically differentiated playstyles that arise out of a common root mechanic.

 

When thinking up Droid classes, my major problem has always been in determining what makes them mechanically unique, rather than what would provide them with an interesting storyline. I'm generally stymied since most of the mechanics that I can come up with mimic one of the existing systems. I'd be curious to see what other people can arrive at.

Idea for resource:

 

Computation / Upload / Processing (someone come up with a better name)

 

It would work similarly to Focus/Rage but be limited to 3 stacks.

 

Base attack, no cd, low dmg, builds 1 stack

Second (filler) attack, low cd, moderate dmg, spends 1 stack

 

Other attacks would be builders/spenders according to balance needs. Burst would be:

 

Long cd (minute+), very high damage, builds 3 stacks, followed by

Medium cd (20s), moderate-high damage, spends 3 stacks.

 

That way the 3 stack spender could also be used as a part of the normal rotation.

 

As a result the class would have the feel of a Shadow (reacting to a quickly regenerating pool) but also of a Knight (building/spending) without relying on natural regen.

 

As for AC, you could have one AC essentially keep that mechanic and the other now have 5 stacks but include cast times (consular style) or just keep them both on the base resource (Knights)

 

TBH it's not like all resources are the same, Ammo/Heat and Energy are already pretty much identical.

 

Personally I am against a DPS/Heal/Tank AC and not sure how a Tank/Heal AC would work with 3 trees, especially when one of them is shared. Buff/Debuff sounds interesting but it would need to be capable of holding its own.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Darth_Dreselus

It would work similarly to Focus/Rage but be limited to 3 stacks.

 

That's one of the problems. You're really just rehashing Focus, but limiting it to a max of 3 instead of 12. It's not really new and doesn't really offer much in the way of complex gameplay, especially since you're capping it at a much lower level than Focus/Rage. Also, it would be hard to see a healing class using a Focus-type resource since there would be no real capacity to run out of resource, especially if there is an ability without a CD that brings it back up at no cost, or any ability to push a hard burn heal phase since you'd only be able to heal, at most 3 resource consuming heals consecutively without running out completely (and that's assuming that the big, hard heal costs only 1).

 

The only major tweak I could imagine would be something like a fusion between Focus/Rage (attacks generate or consume resource) and Ammo/Energy/Heat/Force (constant regeneration without having to use anything). An interesting variation might be to have the resource regenerate faster the lower the total resource is (the opposite of Heat/Ammo/Energy which regens faster the more you have available to consume it is). Since there would be basic attacks that regenerate a static amount based on use, you would have to choose between having a resource cushion for hard burn phases and having the maximum amount of resource per second. Set the maximum resource regeneration at a low enough level that you wouldn't have enough to spend on your biggest attacks (re: below 25% remaining nets you max regeneration), and you could arrive at some very interesting mechanical decisions, especially if the resource gain mechanism is on a CD, such that you are forced to use a number of resource consumers between the use of the resource generator.

Idea for resource:

 

Computation / Upload / Processing (someone come up with a better name)

 

It would work similarly to Focus/Rage but be limited to 3 stacks.

 

Base attack, no cd, low dmg, builds 1 stack

Second (filler) attack, low cd, moderate dmg, spends 1 stack

 

Processing is a name which rings for me. But I'd rather see it as a reverted Focus/Rage, near from the ammo ressource, a number of points but without regeneration which need some specific attacks like the basic one to build it back. The advanced classes could be like Shadows and Sages regarding how they use/build back the ressource (one with bigger pool but lesser ways to build back)

It would be like a computer starts with processors and RAM ready to use, then use it for processes and when the process need to end, it dumps data to leave room for other processes.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Altheran

@ wargonglok ~ I bet you can help! Try to keep in mind how much work goes into altering planets & creating new animations. The more work is required, the less likely it could ever happen. There are ability animations in the game being used by mobs ~ that player abilities don't appear to use. Many of the player ability animations are already being used by different abilities by different classes & advanced classes. Each tech tree needs at minimum, 2 new ability animations per tech tree for the spec special abilities. Try to keep the number of new animations down & think about things like recoloring of effects ~ and not using the animation from tree specific abilities from other classes. ~ keep your eyes peeled for animations that are not being used by a player class atm.

 

@ Omnisin ~ BW has become pretty hung up on their "special romance feature" ~ eventhough so many games are now including this. It's pretty silly considering that many folks find the idea of romance arcs in their video games juvenile & kind of sad. The relationships arcs that I've seen thus far in this title are the sort of relationships that would have seriously negative repercussions in RL. I'm with you that it's time to drop the feature if it messes with game play, or doesn't fit the story. If a droid class had a romance option - I feel like it should be there just to poke fun at the joke romance arcs have become.

 

@ Altheran ~ Yeah - it is a writing hurdle. "How do you make interesting companions that are somehow beholden to a droid?" I feel like BW took the easy out on this one, and made a choice not to find out if it would sink. The flip side is that the companion AI is actually very simple, with most of the companions using an AI and ability set that is nearly identical to many of the others. Doc/ Theran/ Elara/ Guss - are all actually the same companion with the exception of 1 ability & 1 armor proficiency, as far as I can tell (Theran uses holiday for the same effect as the carbonite spray of the others). All that's making them different is, names on the abilities, a few companion conversations, and different audio for unit acknowlegements. There are DPS/ healer/ ranged tank/ melee tank/ melee dps AI's that are being reused over and over. The new HK companion may be using a unique AI ~ but i'm not convinced yet, it may just be a variation of the ranged dps AI. If the companion AI is sophisticated enough- it may all just be one AI. Mobs are using the same AI as the comps. So- there isn't a whole lot of fresh programming necessary for new comps ~ just the story writing. And most companions seem to have less than 10 "conversation" missions, & at most 2 companion missions. I could easily be wrong about that as I havn't played any imp toon through to the end. But it is a task with limits.

 

@ Petnil ~ that's the only way I can see it working - a droid race that doesn't have any option other than playing the droid class. I'm not sure it's even necessary for a playable droid to have Advanced classes.

 

@ Kitru ~ I feel like the race/class should have a special armor proficiency to keep it's gear from causing problems with the droid companions. I don't want to see a droid class develop that can take front stage center from any of the other classes. I don't want it to take the best bits and pieces from each of the other classes. I wouldn't want it to become the defacto "BESTEST" solo/ tank/ heal/ dps class. What I'd like to see is another class that can complement the abilities and playstyle of the existing classes. If it tanks - I think it should do it indirectly with a variation of the guard mechanic ~ let a dps face tank, while the droid soaks damage for them & buffs their threat. If it heals - it could do it indirectly by buffing the health regen of a target ~ soaking a smaller amount of damage and heal itself with strong self heals. If it dps's - I think it should do things like have a short range AoE gap closer & a proc based short radius self centered Aoe damage, and buff another dps with another guard mechanic. Mob droids already do some of this in the game. And there are already abilities that apply these sorts of buffs. The downside is that this would completely trivialize tank swaps, & tight dps rotations. The healing..... might become extremely boring.

 

I also feel that the class could be a way to breathe a lot of life back into crafting. All the various supplies for the class could be crafting recipes, forget modifying every loot table/vender in the game. Maybe give the class a capstone dps ability that uses cybertech grenades for ammunition? Give the class a unique weapon proficiency ~ and give those to armstech. Give the class it's own unique relic recipes to artifice. The repair kits to armormech. Make all the recipes drop from slicing & diplomacy. The core & part recipes would go to someone else. Make the class depend completely on a consummable with a cd for mana regen ~ call it a fuel cell, make it from low level mats, with a version for every craft. Just give the class a hidden debuff to it's regen that makes it depend on the timed buff for regen at all. If it's a legacy class, players have the credits to feed such a beast.

 

Imagine the ePeen from running NiM Ops with such a droid.....especially if it's abilities are not quite up to par with those of other classes, or if the abilities require a higher level of skill to use effectively.

 

I vote for a linear resource mechanic with a large pool like sage sage/sorc ~ but as a heat mechanic like the Bounty Hunter class. Just invert the colors on the resource bar - no need for a new mechanic. Not too much of the heat mechanic in the game right now. As for abilities that are interesting to use, I'd suggest that few if any knockbacks/ stuns/ mezzes/ roots be added to the game. And I'd say that the class needs a pretty standard mix of channeled, cast, & instants. Each tree needs a proc or two. An ability unique to the tree at point 15 & 31, with a unique animation.

 

The story writing challenge of a droid class is coming up with something that fulfills the fantasy of the player, without breaking the game, makes sense, and isn't so cliche that no one is surprised by the way the story ends. The other side is that fiction reuses old stories all the time because the "younguns" have never heard the story before.

 

The playstyle requirement is tough ~ because you're right ~ it needs to be something different that what the other classes do. There are enough stealth classes imho, and I don't see *clank* *whir* as being too stealthy. I also thing melee is out for a droid class. I don't want long range to take away from the snipers. I don't want fire effects to take away from Pyrotechs. I don't want assault cannons taking away from Commandos. I don't want duo pistols taking away from gunslingers & mercs. Too many electrical effects, messes with the sorcerers. It's almost down to things like, the shields that some mobs put on other mobs (like in LI), radiation effects like a recolor of kolto cloud, or ultrasonic type stuff from Manaan in the first KOTOR. It's certainly a creative challenge. throw on top of that the challenge of making it cheap to develop the artwork.... and it's a pretty rough challenge. But there are few creative people about.

 

But it wouldn't hurt the game to have another class option to bring in another tanking & healing tree ~ there are just WAY too many dps specs. I can understand why BW is insistent on have advanced classes- becuase it doubled the options for players without doubling the development work. But considering that they are now talking about allowing players to swap their AC in the future ~ I'm not sure AC's are actually a necessity anymore.

If it tanks - I think it should do it indirectly with a variation of the guard mechanic ~ let a dps face tank, while the droid soaks damage for them & buffs their threat. If it heals - it could do it indirectly by buffing the health regen of a target ~ soaking a smaller amount of damage and heal itself with strong self heals. If it dps's - I think it should do things like have a short range AoE gap closer & a proc based short radius self centered Aoe damage, and buff another dps with another guard mechanic.

 

The problem with a design like this is that, while it works for things like FPs, it doesn't work for Ops. Imagine all of the problems that would arise from using your tank design with another tank in the group: you'd be improving a tanks already impressive threat and splitting what little damage they already take down even more. With your healing model, there would be balance considerations with overpowering AoE heals (since you're splitting single target DPS amongst 2 targets, functionally doubling the effectiveness of all AoE heals). Furthermore, since your "tank" spec relies upon the tank *not* tanking but instead turning a DPS into a tank, what do you do when there isn't a DPS that actually wants to tank, which includes responsibilities like positioning, pulling, etc, as well as some classes outright not wanting to have aggro whatsoever (DPS Shadows and Scrapper Scoundrels would never want to tank because it would end up tanking their DPS). You'd be creating a class that, rather than fulfilling a role, forces someone else to do it instead.

 

Any class intrinsically designed to operate as a purely support class (re: not a healer, but a class that makes other classes more effective) is going to have some major balance issues within the confines of a game that, up until that point, has had 3 well defined roles: you're not fulfilling any of the extant roles and are forcing the implementation and rebalancing of everything to account for a new 4th role. Your healer would make other healers more effective, DPS would make DPS more effective, and tank would make other tanks more effective. You would naturally arrive at problems with either being vastly underpowered in solo and FPs or overpowered in Ops purely because you have an arbitrary desire to skirt the perfectly functional roles that already exist.

 

Rather than trying to create some completely new role, which is what you seem to be trying to do, just use the existing ones. It's not like all of the tanks play identically, nor is there so little variance between them that you really need to invent a new way of using one. Just tweaking the resource mechanism in the ways discussed and messing around with the basic playstyle (meaning the rotation/prioritization of attacks and interaction of abilities with one another, not simple things like which weapon is use and what type of damage is dealt; play style refers to how it plays, not how it looks) would be enough to create an interesting and functional class. Create a different enough resource (such as the ones Alth or I recommended which combine aspects of existing resource mechanisms to create something that would play differently) and good portion of the mechanical design work is done, honestly. Throw in some stances for the various roles, and all you have left to do is play around with CDs, rotations, and buffs/debuffs required for abilities.

 

If you're really insistent on using the Guard mechanic as a class system, it's not necessary to make it entirely necessary to the fulfillment of the role. Provide it as one of the unique "gimmicks" of one of the ACs (specifically, the one that has a tank tree) insofar as each spec gets some way in which to manipulate or create a new Guard mechanism (the tank spec gets one that causes the droid to gain resources or some other buff whenever the guarded target takes damage (or whenever the target goes a certain amount of time without taking damage, or both, honestly), in addition to the baseline effects; the other specs get talents that allow them to use Guard in stances other than the tank stance but change the effect to something different (removing the 5% DR, 25% lower threat, and 50% damage transfer), such as providing a bonus to the target's crit/surge/power when you get a crit or use a certain ability or causing the two of you to deal 5% more damage when within 4m of each other. It's possible to make it a defining characteristic of the class without making it the mechanic that the entire class is built off of.

I'd like to play as a Juggernaut War Droid. They're pretty cool looking, they're armed with a variety of weapons, and they're not just in the lore, but also mentioned in one of the in-game datacrons. They've got an interesting history with the Republic that'd potentially make for a great story, especially if the droid is not newly built, but reactivated after being dormant for hundreds of of years.

making regen faster at low resource doesn´t realy matter unless you e.x. make heals bigger at low resource too. Why stay at low resource just to have bigger regen. I guess it would work for dps, but for healers an insentive to stay at low resource would make for more interesting gameplay.

I suggested the resource mechanic of a large linear heat pool because few classes are using either of those mechanics right now.

 

I was just spit balling the idea of making broader use of the guard mechanic, because it's not something that the other classes are doing. Guard is guard across all 6 of the tanks, but there is some little used flexibility built into that code because of difference between guard in PvE vs. PvP. And there is a "tethered" shield animation in the game, not being used players right now. I just think it's something that could set the class apart, and introduce some interesting mechanics, without really requiring much programming or artwork.

 

Having a healing spec that can passively heal a single target slowly with a guard, while single target healing another from melee range, but lacks any sort of AoE heal ~ could be something really different. Such a healer would have to keep an eye on the mana or health consumed by their "guard". They might have to carefully manage when they applied it. Playing a short range single target healer could be extremely challenging.

 

It's definately a different strokes for different folks kind of thing, we see that from all the discussion about the classes we already have. Some DPS's would love to play with a support class that would let them tank effectively in a dps spec, that's exactly how a lot of bad dps players play. I'm not saying that the dps is actually tanking, the mitigation stats on the droid would be used ~ only damage would be deflected to the droid like the way guard works in PvP. The droid tank could then do something weird like use a short range aoe gap closer/ short range aoe to gain threat on the remaining pull. Nerf the droid tank spec by taking away it's AoE taunt. Don't redirect 100% the damage to the droid, just enough to make the load on the healer semi normal, make droids immune to the majority of the heals in the game, and give the tank spec a self heal that spends stacks generated by using a variety of attacks. Rotations would have to be tight to stay ahead of the incoming damge. Maybe.... I don't know....

 

Big drawback to a guard mechanic is that you can't allow the droid guard effect to be placed on another droid - or you could get this massive overhead in the game engine, as the damage bounced in a circle. So the class may have to have some hidden debuffs that made it immune to some of it's own abilities. It might be impossible to run some content with a pair of droids tanking & healing for a 4 man group.

 

 

As far as understanding how the current roster of abilites in the game work at the engine level - the output of the combat logs describes almost everything that the engine is using right now. Abilities remove or add health/ buffs/ debuffs from a target or all tagets within an area. There are debuffs that redirect health recieved by the target to the caster. There are buffs that reflect damage recieved to the source of the damage, a few that absorb damage, and some that make a target vulnerable to specific forms of attack. Buffs/debuffs include a second timer process, on top of the cd timer process. And a flag that sets whether or not they are stackable & how high. There doesn't seem to be any limitation to what effects these buffs and debuffs can apply, beyond what can be defined. Debuffs from cc & stun apply animation sequences(emotes) to other players. Boosting stats ~ relics/stims apply those buffs. Altering movement speed is done by many abilities & speeders. There are buffs & debuffs that effect mana regen or grant mana. Stuns are just debuffs that lock all abilities except the stun breaker. Procs - are just buffs that unlock an ability & the ability consumes the buff if activated. Many of the class passive abilites & spec choices are basically just buffs that never expire, and don't display icons. It's just massive volumes of very simple addition and substraction at high speed. I can't think of any attributes about toons - other than the model options picked at creation, the equipment proficiencies, & the tech tree associated with the toon, that isn't effected by a buff or debuff (with or without an icon displayed by the UI) at some point in the game.

 

You can break down the ability animations by the toon/ at the weapon/ icon/ AoE/ Projectiles/ and applied at target. You can see that from the way abilities have changed since launch, and how various bits and pieces of animations are recycled throughout the game. The changes to Project did away with the projectile phase of the animation completely. Some of the animations can be applied with a scale attribute that changes how much area the animation covers, or the size of the effect. Bosses use the same animations as players, even though they are generally scaled up from smaller models, so the animation effects have scale attributes. Some of the effects used "at target" can be seen applied on vertical or horizontal surfaces ~ so those effects have position & facing attributes. The runtime of any of the animations can be altered. The animations are stackable & able to be looped. Part of the animation for the trooper knockback is used by the animation for Force in balance & the Knight AoE snare. Several of the "at toon" & "at target" animations are pieces of other emotes sped up or slightly altered, or just emotes themselves.

 

Just an example:

Interrupt - 20 m range, 40 sec cd, no mana cost, instant cast, instant effect, interrupts current action & prevents it from being used for 8 seconds (it's just an 8 second debuff on the target with no icon ~ every cast or channeled ability in the game has a unique debuff just to make this work)

toon animation - tranquilizer dart (also used by vanguards as a taunt, scoundrels as a cc & a heal, healing comps for carbonizing spray, Pyrotechs for something, maybe HK -51 as an attack, and possibly a dozen other places.)

at the weapon - none (because it's actually an emote, and it fires from the left hand)

icon animation - none

projectile animation - none

at target - sparkle powder animation applied at size X on the center of the target hit box. (not currently used by any ability as far as I know - there may also be a "centered below hit box" location - or the effects could be applied at global coordinates from the center of the target hit box)

 

~that would interrupt my concentration pretty effectively~

 

"heat beam" is an ability being used by mobs that I'm not sure any player ability uses the projectile animations for, unless it's acutally just a few frames of "high impact bolt" looping over and over. Depending on the mob there isn't a toon animation, or it's the "hail of bolts" animation. The "at target" animation is used as part of the weld emote & in the Hyrotii scrapper speeder. But the collected animations of "heat beam" is instantly recognizable as something unique. It looks like something different eventhough it's really the same ability as "TK Throw" & "Full Auto" - you could just call it "ranged channeled damage" - but then the combat logger wouldn't make any sense & the game would be boring.

i support it , a full pet class will be amazing , companios feel that void ,but while in groups Edited November 26, 2012 by Warlyx

The only prombelm the OP seemed to have missed was the fact that sentient droids are almost as rare as jedi wookies.

 

The only way it could work and make any sense is to have maybe whole new planet and then explain how you as a droid became sentient.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Tychus

The only prombelm the OP seemed to have missed was the fact that sentient droids are almost as rare as jedi wookies.

 

The only way it could work and makse any sense is to have maybe whole new planet and then explain how you as a droid became sentient.

What if the droid achieves full sentience over the course of its story, as it gains memories and experiences?

I have been saying for awhile that a Droid Class makes the most sense in the SW universe for TOR to create next. The races would be the "models" of droids like HK, IG, Protocol, and the many more humanoid droids that are already in TOR. It would be interesting for this class to work between both factions or a storyline for Imperial and Republic. The idea of using more specs based on buff/debuff sounds like a great idea, but the idea of an AC to be able to do tanking or healing doesn't sound like it would work at all. It would be a huge addition to the game and would take a long time, but would be awesome.

The only prombelm the OP seemed to have missed was the fact that sentient droids are almost as rare as jedi wookies.

 

Actually, in the Star Wars universe, pretty much all droids are capable of achieving distinct personalities and able to deviate from their programmed intended behavior if left without a memory wipe for a sufficient period of time. If you want to get purely technical, most droids in the Star Wars universe are entirely sentient but are continually afflicted with complete retrograde amnesia as soon as they become old enough to start developing an independent personality (in human terms, as soon as they're 4-5 years old) purely because they're viewed as property and, to most people, a personality is a nuisance for property to acquire.

 

Honestly, the rarity of a droid that actually treated as a fully functional independent person is so rare that it would actually be very interesting to see what the story would develop as.

 

Also, it's important to keep in mind that, if you actually pay attention to the different stories for the different characters, none of them are "average" members of their class: the trooper is, essentially, the single greatest trooper in the entire Republic army, both of the Jedi are praised, right from the beginning, for being ridiculously amazing with their lightsaber (for Knights) and the Force (for Consulars). Even Smugglers are exceptional examples of their type because, while you start off pretty average, you actually become an underworld kingpin at the end of your story. Not a single one of the playable classes is intended to be an "average" example of their class. They're the best of the best or, at least, the luckiest. The fact that hordes of player characters cover the world has nothing really to do with the actual story associated with each of those characters. It's entirely feasible for one of the few droids that is actually treated as a person is playable, within the confines of the story, because none of the player classes are actually intended to be "average", and, honestly, the dichotomy of playing what amounts to what most people, even good people, see as a tool, regardless of personality, intelligence, or independence, could make for an *excellent* story.