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The portrayal of the Sith: Wasted potential

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The portrayal of the Sith: Wasted potential

Kiernanrufus's Avatar


Kiernanrufus
11.04.2018 , 03:40 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
Think Vader in the original films, ordering Alderaan destroyed
Except the order was given by Tarkin, not Vader. lmao

SaveTheMonkeys's Avatar


SaveTheMonkeys
01.27.2019 , 03:15 PM | #22
It's the shoulder-pads and spikes-on-everything look. There are lots of interesting sith NPCs throughout the game, but it can be hard to take them seriously when they look like they're doing sith cosplay. If your shoulder-pads prevent you from walking through a doorway, you're trying too hard.

Limariko's Avatar


Limariko
02.17.2019 , 03:23 AM | #23
Apologies for the thread-necro but I just noticed it.

I agree that how Sith are portrayed could be so much more complex and detailed compared to what we have in game. Starting with the Sith species, they had a thriving albeit militaristic culture before getting first enslaved by the Rakata and later by the Dark Jedi who ramped things up with mind control and genetic manipulation to breed out traits like empathy to mold the Sith species to be more like them, then start breeding with them to harness how naturally strong with the Force they were.

What we mostly see if the Sith: The Order, it's just built off the Dark Jedis equivalent of a teen's rebellious overreaction which has pretty much obliterated any perception of Sith: The Species as having once had its own culture. Not helping either is the Jedi inability to deal with any culture's interpretation of the Force which isn't thier own and reinforcing the concept of Sith: The People = Sith: The Order.

I'd be very curious to see more of what a culture that had it's own interpretation of the Force shaped by a people where everyone had some degree of ability with it as well as being able to sustain themselves from it as if it were food. So far we've only seen a little of the Sith Pureblood fear of becoming extinct with Lord Abbadon's quest on Korriban, the Red Reaper flashpoint, and dialog like Lord Praven's about the Jedi wanting to genocide the Sith people.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
02.17.2019 , 05:03 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Limariko View Post
Apologies for the thread-necro but I just noticed it.

I agree that how Sith are portrayed could be so much more complex and detailed compared to what we have in game. Starting with the Sith species, they had a thriving albeit militaristic culture before getting first enslaved by the Rakata and later by the Dark Jedi who ramped things up with mind control and genetic manipulation to breed out traits like empathy to mold the Sith species to be more like them, then start breeding with them to harness how naturally strong with the Force they were.

What we mostly see if the Sith: The Order, it's just built off the Dark Jedis equivalent of a teen's rebellious overreaction which has pretty much obliterated any perception of Sith: The Species as having once had its own culture. Not helping either is the Jedi inability to deal with any culture's interpretation of the Force which isn't thier own and reinforcing the concept of Sith: The People = Sith: The Order.

I'd be very curious to see more of what a culture that had it's own interpretation of the Force shaped by a people where everyone had some degree of ability with it as well as being able to sustain themselves from it as if it were food. So far we've only seen a little of the Sith Pureblood fear of becoming extinct with Lord Abbadon's quest on Korriban, the Red Reaper flashpoint, and dialog like Lord Praven's about the Jedi wanting to genocide the Sith people.
If you're interested about that I'd recommend buying the "Book of the Sith:Secrets of the Dark Side", the first chapter goes over the original Sith species and how their culture helped shape the Sith Order.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

Limariko's Avatar


Limariko
02.18.2019 , 10:17 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
If you're interested about that I'd recommend buying the "Book of the Sith:Secrets of the Dark Side", the first chapter goes over the original Sith species and how their culture helped shape the Sith Order.
I snapped that one up last year and it's not bad at all. My only complaint is that first chapter's still penned by one of the Dark Jedi and filtered through her perspective. To the History Major in me, it's the equivalent of the account written by the Roman trader about those pants wearing hairy barbarians they saw on thier last trip. It's a pretty close compared to something written centuries later but not quite on par of a person of that culture's documentation.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
02.19.2019 , 03:37 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Limariko View Post
I snapped that one up last year and it's not bad at all. My only complaint is that first chapter's still penned by one of the Dark Jedi and filtered through her perspective. To the History Major in me, it's the equivalent of the account written by the Roman trader about those pants wearing hairy barbarians they saw on thier last trip. It's a pretty close compared to something written centuries later but not quite on par of a person of that culture's documentation.
Yeah, I see your point. Would be interesting to get something like King Adas' writings or an Ancient Sith Warlord or even Priest talking about their society.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
02.19.2019 , 11:19 PM | #27
I'm not fond of how any of the Sith are portrayed in this game. Or in Star Wars as a whole, really. I don't really care for Bane, though that trilogy was at least better written than Revan. Sith are not pitiless robots. They aren't sociopaths solely motivated by gaining advantage. That's essentially a selfish Jedi. We can argue that Bane wasn't selfish because he was a visionary trying to create a New Order, but does that actually compare any better with the Jedi? It makes him even more Jedi-like. The best in-game version, to me, is Angral, because yes, he was a puppy kicking Saturday morning villain, but he was motivated by a very specific drive: avenging his son.

It's something that we don't really see in the other Sith characters [even our own], which is how a family structure would work. Like how would their society function on a day to day level if fathers treated their children like overseers at the academy? It wouldn't. Baras tried to free his sister, but did he do that because he missed her or because she was useful? BW doesn't really give us an answer, but given how both Sith behave, I think it was more a cold calculation than actual passion. For the most part, when Sith speak of passion, they mean anger or fear, but with Angral we saw pride [of someone other than himself], grief and loss. It wasn't the best job, but it sure beats Jadus out of the park.

I much prefer how the Sith were portrayed in K2, with different natures, unpredictable [and chaotic evil is not unpredictable], alien in some ways, similar to Jedi in more than a structural way, but out of control of their emotions [and not just shock lightning as a go-to option]. The description of the True Sith in that game, and the way Revan prepared himself for the trip, made me think [in hindsight] that the sequel would be playing in a setting like Nathema or Oricon. You wouldn't want to bring a whole bunch of people on that trip, they'd either be taken captive and tortured, killed by the environment or corrupted. But, hell, he could have easily taken Bastila and Canderous to DK.

Instead, the two sith storylines made it clear very quickly that the majority of sith are either vapid buffoons or overpowered killing machines except for one fatal, fairly obvious flaw. Or devious fat men. I think the masks you see on Jadus, Baras etc were also a step in the right direction, but the final design didn't come off right. If Vitiate had been more like Nihlius, but with lines and a brain, he also would have been a lot more scary, instead of a Palpy wannabe.

You get the sense that maybe when the Emperor was directly running things, the society was actually pretty dark, instead of space nazis [the Hogan's Heroes Nazis]. OTOH, Scourge was around for that, and doesn't think Sith have changed at all. And to be fair, Sith society in this game isn't all that different than the way the Sith were depicted in the Tales of the Jedi, minus the massassi slaves.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
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Limariko's Avatar


Limariko
02.21.2019 , 02:49 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
Yeah, I see your point. Would be interesting to get something like King Adas' writings or an Ancient Sith Warlord or even Priest talking about their society.
I would love to see anything along those lines made available. Best we can piece together is the original Sith culture was militaristic with a caste system so we can guess that they would likely hold concepts like honor and duty as important. Since the Jedi and Dark Jedi are the big stickler's for an interpretation of a Light side and Dark side, for all we know the original Sith interpretation of the Force is just a really useful tool to accomplish things with whether it's seen as good or bad being dependent on it's usage. For example using the Force to shape an animal to be a better beast of burden for one's settlement would be seen as good, but turning that animal on an enemy would be seen as bad from that enemy's perspective.
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yobamo's Avatar


yobamo
02.27.2019 , 11:51 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Xqirrel View Post
Yo guys, this is my first post on the forums, so be gentle

I recently started playing the SW story, and the way my character developed led me to realize how much potential is constantly being wasted in how the Sith, and the dark side in general, is portrayed in Star Wars.

My Sith is not some crazy, charicature, she is not some lunatic that goes around killing puppies - she basically is Daenerys Targaryen, just evil

Imagine a world where the Sith are not constantly portrayed as this ridiculous, over the top interpretation of space Nazis - instead they are the powerful, merciless rulers of a powerful, authoritarian interstellar empire, almost worshipped like demigods by their subjects.

Which villain actually portrays themselves as evil? Nobody does, including the Sith! The sith don't see themselves as evil, in their minds they are the good guys - and the Jedi are nothing but a perversion of nature, an affront to the natural order.

When i think of a sith lord in my head i don't think of Darth Sidious, or Snoke - I'm thinking of Tywin Lannister, of Julius Caesar, of Darken Rahl (if anybody read the sword of truth)!

I actually think that is what they tried to do with Valkorion - who is a better, and more intimidating Sith that Vitiate ever was, imo!
I'm tired of the same, rehearsed version of space Nazis in every new Star Wars film - who in their right mind would actually fight for these idiots?

Disclaimer: this post has no point, i just was bored and felt like rambling
haha I think I get wat you mean. the first order are like nazi's in the sequel trilogy lol

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that_Spartan_IV's Avatar


that_Spartan_IV
03.19.2019 , 12:52 PM | #30
I must agree. The Sith in this game are bloodthirsty psychopaths, whereas I'd like an option to have a more charismatic Sith like Darth Bane or Darth Plagueis.
"Two there should be, no more, no less."