i think they shoud lower the combat shied upgrade to Reactive shield (immune to interrupts) one tier down on healing tree, that way it would be more accessible to gunnery specced mandos, and then add some kind of Hold the line skill.

Agreed. It's been suggested many times. Attaching low-tier buffs to Reactive Shield is probably the easiest fix for mobility & interrupt issues across all three specs, provided it's on a much shorter cooldown or given a more extended duration (I'd opt for the shorter cooldown, since we'd be using it at different times for damage mitigation, interrupt-free casting, and mobility). It wouldnt impact pve gameplay very much either. Could also bundle the instant cast and/or zero-cost abilities with it to free up space for the escape ability and any other added utility abilities (because I don't think we need any more buttons to press, frankly).

My bet is we won't get anything meaningful until the expansion. More than likely they will do something with bubblestun and the smashmonkies in 1.7 but mercs/mandos will simply be told to LoS the pillars more.

 

WOOT...1000!!!!!

I feel like this is ridiculously optimistic.

I feel like this is ridiculously optimistic.

careful, they might nerf all the pillars in all the WZs for bioware hears this...

Let me know if you get Invincible or Immortal quoting in a WZ as a merc/mando.

 

800k is nothing. Top score charts is Nothing.

Anyone here who has made a valid and intelligent post on this forum can pull 800k as a merc in a VS, all it requires is ED and FM the right target in a cluster fuk of people and keep DFA on CD. 800k easy. Maybe a MB here and there.

My whole point was that I put up 800k damage and nobody else broke 500k. My numbers could have been bigger if I didnt also kill a ton of people in the process. We also won the match. Big numbers dont really mean anything if nobodies dying. The only point Im trying to make is that the dps issues arent that bad, its survivability. Ive never had the feeling that I wish I could put out more damage, I have had the feeling of being severely pissed off after being consistenty beat by almost any class 1v1 because of survivability issues. Nevermind the fact I used 800k as an example, not trying to brag about big numbers. Hell, theres been matches where I put up 300k and noone else broke 50k. Obviously we lose.

Let me know if you get Invincible or Immortal quoting in a WZ as a merc/mando.

 

800k is nothing. Top score charts is Nothing.

Anyone here who has made a valid and intelligent post on this forum can pull 800k as a merc in a VS, all it requires is ED and FM the right target in a cluster fuk of people and keep DFA on CD. 800k easy. Maybe a MB here and there.

Invincible isn't that hard on my commando. Not sure if I have ever gotten Immortal on him. Done it on my VG though.

My whole point was that I put up 800k damage and nobody else broke 500k. My numbers could have been bigger if I didnt also kill a ton of people in the process. We also won the match. Big numbers dont really mean anything if nobodies dying. The only point Im trying to make is that the dps issues arent that bad, its survivability. Ive never had the feeling that I wish I could put out more damage, I have had the feeling of being severely pissed off after being consistenty beat by almost any class 1v1 because of survivability issues. Nevermind the fact I used 800k as an example, not trying to brag about big numbers. Hell, theres been matches where I put up 300k and noone else broke 50k. Obviously we lose.

There's also survivability and type of damage. A class which does less damage overall but which does more upfront burst damage is more useful than a class which is doing more damage but the burst is either severely backloaded or is made up in a huge way by DoT damage (especially in warzones lacking healers).

Survivability is also a huge issue, as is team utility. I'd be a lot more comfortable with our damage if those two issues were addressed.

My whole point was that I put up 800k damage and nobody else broke 500k. My numbers could have been bigger if I didnt also kill a ton of people in the process. We also won the match. Big numbers dont really mean anything if nobodies dying. The only point Im trying to make is that the dps issues arent that bad,.

Once I walked into a kindergarten class and I was totally the biggest person there. I could have taken any of them EASY.

This obviously means I'm as tough as a UFC champion. My fist DPS isn't that bad.

/logic

I have had matches where I've done 4 times+ the next highest DPS on:

My sage (hybrid) (at 50)

My guardian (lolsmash) (still leveling)

My sentinel (combat) (still leveling)

My commando (at 50)

My mercenary (sucker for punishment) (still leveling)

My vanguard (assault) (still leveling)

My gunslinger (sharpshooter - really badly geared) (at 50)

By far the easiest were the guardian, VG and sage, closely followed by the sentinel.

800k is awesome if you're a big fish in a little pond. In the ocean there are much bigger sharks.

the problem with the pillar-humping dev post is that pillar-humping is not a tactic solely used by Merc/Mando. its used by everyone

I still chuckle that we're over 100 pages and that post was on page 4.

Anyway, I think it demonstrates that they do not know exactly how a commando works.

Great, we pillar hump....and then what?

Can't stop to dps or heal because most of our abilities have casting bars and they catch up to us. If we weren't slowed to begin with.

Use Concussion Charge to create distance? Awesome, too bad every melee class, besides VG/PT, have a gap close on a shorter CD than our gap opener. As for the VGs/PTs, they do still have some 30m attacks that can hit pretty hard so, once again, nothing is really gained.

Cryo Grenade/SS root? Great for maybe getting of a damaging attack or two, but unless they're already extremely close to dead, and which point we should have just stood and fought them and not try to pillar hump, we still haven't really gained any sort of advantage.

I really don't think BW knows how to fix us without giving us 5 more levels. Which is really the wrong answer.

I would like battle focus/explosive fuel on my mando:)

God, please yes. How the hell do you look at the two final cooldowns for these classes and think "yeah that seems about right".

the problem with the pillar-humping dev post is that pillar-humping is not a tactic solely used by Merc/Mando. its used by everyone

But what if they gave us a new casted ability on a really short cooldown: an energy-generated pillar that we could place on the ground wherever we want to make a stand. Immune to stuns and snares as long as we keep running around it.

dont give them any ideas

All you need to know about commandos is that a DPS commando in PVP brings not a single thing to the table that makes them desirable for rated PVP. They don't burst. They can't guard objectives. They have no utility.

Given that they aren't going to fundamentally change the class into a stealth class or increase their burst DPS, they need to give them a lot more utility. Even if you gave them an escape, that would not be enough to make them desirable for rated, because then they'd just be lesser sorcs (no friendly pull, no bubbles). I'd say give them something that prevents healing totally for 3-4 seconds, plus an escape. The escape would help them in 1vs1's, and the unique utility ability would make them desirable for rated.

Or something else, but I think you'll be sorely mistaken if you think an escape is all that's needed to get them into RWZ - because with an escape, they're still adding nothing that a sorc doesn't already do better.

IMO, I think the best alternatives Bioware can give us is this:

- All channeled attacks are immune to interrupts, that means Powershot, Tracer Missile & Unload.

or

- Give us Flame Burst / Ion Pulse and allow us to have Rail Shot being reseted by it and Rocket Punch.

One idea I have is to give pyro mercs a permanent movement speed buff, I was thinking that since I'm constantly on the move and I use rapid shots most of the time after the usual IM/TD/RS, that would make us a more hit & run style, completely the opposite of turret mode of Arsenal & Snipers.

I recently lvl another BH past 10 and went on fleet to pick my advanced class and I kinda felt sad when listening to those 2 boyos trying to explain me how tinies dual wielding guns mercs are so top dps while fat heavy PTs are so tanky... how misleading Bioware, how misleading.

EDIT: Also after 1000 posts, look at the time that passed since the first post ( 10.29.2012 , 03:53 AM | #1 ) and today... GOOD JOB PVP DEV TEAM.

IMO, I think the best alternatives Bioware can give us is this:

 

- All channeled attacks are immune to interrupts, that means Powershot, Tracer Missile & Unload.

 

or

 

- Give us Flame Burst / Ion Pulse and allow us to have Rail Shot being reseted by it and Rocket Punch.

 

One idea I have is to give pyro mercs a permanent movement speed buff, I was thinking that since I'm constantly on the move and I use rapid shots most of the time after the usual IM/TD/RS, that would make us a more hit & run style, completely the opposite of turret mode of Arsenal & Snipers.

 

I recently lvl another BH past 10 and went on fleet to pick my advanced class and I kinda felt sad when listening to those 2 boyos trying to explain me how tinies dual wielding guns mercs are so top dps while fat heavy PTs are so tanky... how misleading Bioware, how misleading.

 

EDIT: Also after 1000 posts, look at the time that passed since the first post ( 10.29.2012 , 03:53 AM | #1 ) and today... GOOD JOB PVP DEV TEAM.

That seems entirely reasonable and an effective way to get this class back into the WZ's. Sadly, since this first post was made up until now I see so few merc/commandos compared to the smash classes.

But what if they gave us a new casted ability on a really short cooldown: an energy-generated pillar that we could place on the ground wherever we want to make a stand. Immune to stuns and snares as long as we keep running around it.

Kinda like a stripper pole?

All you need to know about commandos is that a DPS commando in PVP brings not a single thing to the table that makes them desirable for rated PVP. They don't burst. They can't guard objectives. They have no utility.

 

Given that they aren't going to fundamentally change the class into a stealth class or increase their burst DPS, they need to give them a lot more utility. Even if you gave them an escape, that would not be enough to make them desirable for rated, because then they'd just be lesser sorcs (no friendly pull, no bubbles). I'd say give them something that prevents healing totally for 3-4 seconds, plus an escape. The escape would help them in 1vs1's, and the unique utility ability would make them desirable for rated.

 

Or something else, but I think you'll be sorely mistaken if you think an escape is all that's needed to get them into RWZ - because with an escape, they're still adding nothing that a sorc doesn't already do better.

I completely agree. If they're are not going to dramatically improve our DPS output (particularly burst) then we need some kind of unique utility to be competitive in RWZa.

But I don't believe BW's PvP team (if it even IS a team any more) has the faintest idea what happens in RWZs. They are outliers to the general metrics the devs seem so fond of.

All you need to know about commandos is that a DPS commando in PVP brings not a single thing to the table that makes them desirable for rated PVP. They don't burst. They can't guard objectives. They have no utility.

 

Given that they aren't going to fundamentally change the class into a stealth class or increase their burst DPS, they need to give them a lot more utility. Even if you gave them an escape, that would not be enough to make them desirable for rated, because then they'd just be lesser sorcs (no friendly pull, no bubbles). I'd say give them something that prevents healing totally for 3-4 seconds, plus an escape. The escape would help them in 1vs1's, and the unique utility ability would make them desirable for rated.

 

Or something else, but I think you'll be sorely mistaken if you think an escape is all that's needed to get them into RWZ - because with an escape, they're still adding nothing that a sorc doesn't already do better.

Yep! Been saying that for awhile. Address the utility issue or why bother?

But I don't believe BW's PvP team (if it even IS a team any more) has the faintest idea what happens in RWZs. They are outliers to the general metrics the devs seem so fond of.

this. 100% this exactly

Or something else, but I think you'll be sorely mistaken if you think an escape is all that's needed to get them into RWZ - because with an escape, they're still adding nothing that a sorc doesn't already do better.

Unfortunately, a short escape is probably all we are going to get. And I wouldn't put it past BW to attach a heat/resource nerf to that escape move. They just fundamentally believe that Merc dps is OP. Which is actually half true. In a fight between low skill players, the Merc dps is one of the best classes in the game. And most of the people in pvp warzones these days are low skill players. Hence from a meta average standpoint, Merc dps is OP. But once you get to the higher skill level players, everyone knows Merc dps is the worst class in the game. Period. Every honest player will acknowledge this. But BW's policy is not to balance based on best practices for each subclass. They are balancing based on meta averages. So Mercs will always suck.

The sad part is that there is a lot of scope for adding utility to the Merc class - in ways that would actually improve the overall game. For example there are no anti-stealth classes in the game. Every other subclass has a counter. But not stealth classes. If you made Merc an anti-stealth class by making its stealth scanner invisible to enemy players and root inducing to enemy stealthers, overall play balance would improve a lot. But we won't see that. BW is not going to buff a class it already considers OP.

Unfortunately, a short escape is probably all we are going to get. And I wouldn't put it past BW to attach a heat/resource nerf to that escape move. They just fundamentally believe that Merc dps is OP. Which is actually half true. In a fight between low skill players, the Merc dps is one of the best classes in the game. And most of the people in pvp warzones these days are low skill players. Hence from a meta average standpoint, Merc dps is OP. But once you get to the higher skill level players, everyone knows Merc dps is the worst class in the game. Period. Every honest player will acknowledge this. But BW's policy is not to balance based on best practices for each subclass. They are balancing based on meta averages. So Mercs will always suck.

 

The sad part is that there is a lot of scope for adding utility to the Merc class - in ways that would actually improve the overall game. For example there are no anti-stealth classes in the game. Every other subclass has a counter. But not stealth classes. If you made Merc an anti-stealth class by making its stealth scanner invisible to enemy players and root inducing to enemy stealthers, overall play balance would improve a lot. But we won't see that. BW is not going to buff a class it already considers OP.

That they even acknowledge our escapability issues speaks to the fact that they aren't JUST looking at meta averages (or that those meta averages aren't so much in commando's favor as you seem to think. I know you like to think that only the high skill players are left, but on shadowlands I can't swing a dead cat sometimes for all the gunnery commandos and most of them suck out loud. Got into a match the other week with FOUR of them).

That being said, I highly doubt they understand the class or the current meta game enough to give us something that truly helps us, unless it also basically overturns the current meta and actually does make us OP, probably in some kind of incredibly annoying.

Making us an antistealth class has a lot of good balancing potential imo. Especially as powerful as those classes are. I agree with your change to stealth scan and I also think they should give us a second stealth scan type ability which shows us (and only us) all stealth classes within 30-35 meters that aren't currently using some kind of black out ability (the RP justification would be something like "thermal imager" or something). This would make us a good counter to stealth but would also give stealth players a counterplay against us.

bump, justice, blah

What do you guys think of the datamined changes?

bump, justice, blah

 

What do you guys think of the datamined changes?

I see more defenses, faster casting but less minimal dmg (but higher max dmg) for various of our attacks.

Overall: meh.